CoF nerfed to the ground for ret?

[Sandraudiga]

The thing is, telling people to get 30% haste is bullshit regardless of context.

There are contexts where getting 30% haste makes sense. With the cloak for instance 30% means getting more spenders with the buff up outside of crusade, and if the RPPM part of the trinket is affected by haste then maybe getting more haste will make it slightly less useless.

That being said, at this point without some significant real testing showing otherwise, I consider the trinket as close to a dead trinket as possible.

[Deleted]

There are contexts where getting 30% haste makes sense. With the cloak for instance 30% means getting more spenders with the buff up outside of crusade, and if the RPPM part of the trinket is affected by haste then maybe getting more haste will make it slightly less useless.

That being said, at this point without some significant real testing showing otherwise, I consider the trinket as close to a dead trinket as possible.

just tried it with my 32% haste set. still cd reduce is around 10sec ... so rip trinket..

[preciousx]

So........NH offers nothing besides our 6% dps increase 4p set?

[Ryuji]

So........NH offers nothing besides our 6% dps increase 4p set?

That and the wrath of the ashbringer relic off the first boss. Maybe Draught.

[Emerald Archer]

I just got Draught. Is there anyone here who has both Draught and CoF who can tell me how much Draught affects CoF?

Also, what are your opinions on when the first Draught should be used with Crusade? The very end? The moment there's 15 stacks? Some other time? Right now, I'm rolling Memento & Draught because I both simmed and tested that to be better than Horn & Draught. I tend to wait for a crit buff from Memento and then pop Draught. If that doesn't happen, I pop it at the end of Crusade, last 3 seconds.

Draught hits class as auto attacks, so it just gives a lot more chances for CoF to proc, on top of doing juicy damage.

[Neldarie]

You really need to stop posting because looking at your latest post history its all bullshit.

[Meiffert]

With the cloak for instance 30% means getting more spenders with the buff up outside of crusade

Nope.
3rd GCD under cloak = 12.5 % haste
4th GCD under cloak = 50 % haste

[Wikiy]

So........NH offers nothing besides our 6% dps increase 4p set?

How is the 5% dps increase from 2p set worth just glazing over?

Also, like, NH has gear that's 25-30 ilvls higher than EN. This is almost a whole patch tier difference. And the gear is mostly much better itemized than EN - there's lots of crit and vers.

[Sandraudiga]

Nope.
3rd GCD under cloak = 12.5 % haste
4th GCD under cloak = 50 % haste

It isn't only a matter of GCD. Reduced cooldown of Crusader Strike and Blade of Wrath as well as faster auto attacks for Blade of Wrath procs are also part of it.

[Meiffert]

It isn't only a matter of GCD. Reduced cooldown of Crusader Strike and Blade of Wrath as well as faster auto attacks for Blade of Wrath procs are also part of it.

All of these things are modified by the same percentage as GCD.
For example, the cooldown of CS is always 3 gcds, even though the seconds amount is getting lowered.

The only things that "change" with haste (in the sense that they cause breakpoints) are constant factors that are unaffected by it, such as:
- cloak buff duration (creates 12.5 % and 50 % breakpoints)
- Judgment debuff duration (creates 12.5 %, 31.25 % and 50 % breakpoints)
- AW/Crusade duration (getting another GCD inside Crusade) (breakpoints for this are every ~ 5 %, depending on the amount of AW relics; but with Crusade it's too volatile, because your haste changes during the cooldown duration)
- Fires of Justice 1 second CS cooldown reduction

Of course, being safely above the theoretical breakpoint will allow for some delay caused by player mistake, but I wouldn't recommend pushing hard for 30 % based on the legendary cloak.


Also want to point out that I'm by no means trying to bash Solsacra (since his quote sparked this discussion), as I have no idea about the context of the quote. He is one of the very few theorycrafters whom I trust enough to not redo the math myself.

[Butosai]

The thing is, telling people to get 30% haste is bullshit regardless of context.

Nydous is that you? You seem very dense

[MarshallX]

How is the 5% dps increase from 2p set worth just glazing over?

Also, like, NH has gear that's 25-30 ilvls higher than EN. This is almost a whole patch tier difference. And the gear is mostly much better itemized than EN - there's lots of crit and vers.

I think it's more a matter of flavour for people, bud. People were excited to not use FCM anymore. To have a change to our APL, something to mix it up.


I picked up a 900 DoS last night, it's doing way more damage than my sims are showing (Sims show 3-7%, actuality it was giving more like 12% over an entire M+). I don't know if I just had a lucky night or what.

Also the reduced CD means nothing because it's more beneficial to save it to use when Crusade is at full stacks, so the CD is effectively 120s.

[snackfeat]

Nydous is that you? You seem very dense

Go ahead an explain why I'm wrong.

[dnicks17]

Now you've got the paladin discord white knights flocking here.

Way to go.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Pure, unscathed in real fights Dragonslayers are so welcome here.
Let us be enlightened by collective wisdom of the Hive Discord.

[Deleted]

i resent this i have both open in parallel. both sides talk bull but here i got storm to play with

[Solsacra]

Go ahead an explain why I'm wrong.

That's not how this works. It's up to you to bring a compelling argument that provides evidence and reasoning why you believe yourself to be correct. Put up, or shut up.

[snackfeat]

That's not how this works. It's up to you to bring a compelling argument that provides evidence and reasoning why you believe yourself to be correct. Put up, or shut up.

For starters, 30% is not even the actual breakpoint.

[Solsacra]

For starters, 30% is not even the actual breakpoint.

Thats not.... /sigh

I like how you're still hung up on the 30% thing. What exactly do you think is -wrong-? Is that really it?

[dnicks17]

Thats not.... /sigh

I like how you're still hung up on the 30% thing. What exactly do you think is -wrong-? Is that really it?

Hahah.

This is golden.

Take a lap.