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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Also, why not both? Bankrupt the company that has demonstrated they should not be trusted with doing business with anyone, and give the patent to public. Now they got what they deserved, and other companies can produce the medicine within reason again.
    I agree. Put the company out of business with a heavy fine and then negate the patent on the medicine.

    Things like those should never be tolerated as they are highly unethical.

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer Blade Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    It depends on if you are goal, or profit oriented. The reason I brought up NASA, was because the government's main goal was to get to the moon (and explore the solar system) not profit. A commercial company has profit/growth as its main goal.

    We spend billions in R&D in finding the best and efficient way to kill people (our military budget is insane)... maybe we should shift focus and instead look for ways to save lives, and keep people healthy.
    Moving 20% of the military spending to Science or the Enviroment would be interesting.
    "when i'm around you i'm like a level 5 metapod. all i can do is harden!"

    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    The people who cry for censorship aren't going to be buying the game anyway. Censoring it, is going to piss off the people who were going to buy it.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarlicGuy View Post
    http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2017/01/18/news...ine/index.html

    I looked, and didn't see a post on this. I guess nobody cares because it is not a US company? The outrage - myself included - with Mylan was tangible....

    Snippet:

    An Irish drug maker was accused of slowly hiking the price of a life-saving medication used to treat infants from $40 a vial to more than $34,000 a vial, and preventing other pharmaceutical firms from creating a competitive drug.

    The company, Mallinckrodt, agreed Wednesday to settle charges of anti-competitive practices by paying a $100 million fine and allow a competitor to produce a similar medication.

    The Federal Trade Commission announced that the deal was reached with the FTC and three state attorney generals.

    The drug, H.P. Acthar Gel, is used to treat infantile spasms and multiple sclerosis. A spokesperson for New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman -- who was involved in the settlement -- said the drug is typically prescribed in "life-saving situations."


    Schneiderman's office said Mallinckrodt's (MNK)U.S. subsidiary -- formerly known as Questcor -- purchased Acthar in 2001 and proceeded to slowly raise the price of the drug 85,000%. The complaint says a single course of treatment can cost "well over $100,000."

    The complaint also alleges that Questcor thwarted attempts by its competitors to introduce a similar drug to the U.S. market by out-bidding their efforts to acquire Synacthem, which is used to treat the same conditions, in 2013.

    Now, the company must give up its rights to Synacthem and allow another company to produce the product.

    "This is an egregious case of a monopolist doing a deal to eliminate potential competition and keep its power over pricing," Schneiderman said in a statement. "This settlement will restore the competition that was prevented by Questcor's illegal actions."

    Mallinckrodt shares plummeted nearly 14% during trading hours Wednesday before ending the day down 6% from the open.
    The stock only ended 6% down? That seems odd - should have been lower. Maybe?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    If you're going to quote a misleading figure at least do it right; it's $500 Million not $800 Million, and that value was debunked as inaccurate long ago because it takes into account expenses that are tax-deductible as well as expenses that are unrealistic to the risks of drug manufacturing. The 'real' cost for drug development (whether they fail or succeed) is around $110 Million. That's what the drug companies would expect to spend after accounting for what they offset via tax deductions, etc.

    That number is mitigated further when you understand that taxpayer dollars already subsidize the cost of drug company research. In 1995 the top 5 selling drugs received over 50% of the funding associated with their research and development through taxpayer funded programs. To make matters even more appalling - the risk/reward for Drug Companies is bullshit. They've been the most profitable business type since 1982, failures and successes and all.

    You're (over)paying for drugs your taxes already helped pay for.
    You have a sauce on the 500 million figure my friend? And yes Im already aware of the overpaying, hence the subsidy.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The stock only ended 6% down? That seems odd - should have been lower. Maybe?
    my guess is this 1 drug is not that big of a revenue % for the company or profit....

    bet they are about even in 2 weeks when all is forgotten

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This is why I think For Profit Prisons, and Healthcare (in all forms) should not have profit motives. They should be owned by the state (or communally by all of us).

    I can understand Apple, or some other company being "private" as we stand now, but healthcare and the prison/jail systems should not have a profit motive.
    In my opinion only luxury service/goods should be for profit.

  7. #47
    Somewhat related to this: There's a drug that was just approved before Christmas for a condition I have (Spinraza for SMA). Everybody was super excited because it's the first treatment ever for it. Then we saw the price they put on it: $125,000 per treatment, with an expected 6 treatments the first year, and 3 every year after. So $750,000 for the first year of treatment. Who exactly do they expect can pay for that other than hoping insurers will? On the website for the drug there's a section on how to pay for it and one thing they list is "we'll point you to charities that might be able to help" (or maybe just don't gouge everybody). When asked why the price was so high, the CEO of Biogen said it was because they had no competition and could set it as high as they thought they could get away with.
    Last edited by Nellise; 2017-01-19 at 11:33 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    Somewhat related to this: There's a drug that was just approved before Christmas for a condition I have (Spinraza for SMA). Everybody was super excited because it's the first treatment ever for it. Then we saw the price they put on it: $125,000 per treatment, with an expected 6 treatments the first year, and 3 every year after. So $750,000 for the first year of treatment. Who exactly do they expect can pay for that other than hoping insurers will? On the website for the drug there's a section on how to pay for it and one thing they list is "we'll point you to charities that might be able to help" (or maybe just don't gouge everybody). When asked why the price was so high, the CEO of Biogen said it was because they had no competition and could set it as high as they thought they could get away with.
    Like I've said, Pharmaceutical companies can be the absolute scum of the earth...

  9. #49
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSnow View Post
    To those complaining about capitalism, this is an antitrust case, so yeah.
    Exactly. It is not an argument against capitalism, it is an argument against "untamed capitalism", in which free market isn't guaranteed and supported by the government, but is transformed into an oligopoly dwelling. An actual working capitalism with an actual free market has these cases sorted and monopolies disbanded - which is exactly what happened to the company in the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Example #4203B as to why free-market laissez-faire capitalism doesn't work out in practice. Because a market free of government influence is not automatically a "free market"; health care is a clear example where those who need it are not in a balanced negotiating position, since they can't just refuse to participate in the market without serious consequence.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, there's other ways, too. "You've abused your patent filing, so we're negating it and making it public. Now all your competitors can make it, too."
    Given that it was due to government regulation that this was even allowed to occur in the first place, I don't follow your line of reasoning. Calling the current market free is laughable.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    Somewhat related to this: There's a drug that was just approved before Christmas for a condition I have (Spinraza for SMA). Everybody was super excited because it's the first treatment ever for it. Then we saw the price they put on it: $125,000 per treatment, with an expected 6 treatments the first year, and 3 every year after. So $750,000 for the first year of treatment. Who exactly do they expect can pay for that other than hoping insurers will? On the website for the drug there's a section on how to pay for it and one thing they list is "we'll point you to charities that might be able to help" (or maybe just don't gouge everybody). When asked why the price was so high, the CEO of Biogen said it was because they had no competition and could set it as high as they thought they could get away with.
    God damn, that's fucked. Hopefully you can get your medicine somehow.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    It' sad because infants don't even have $40. How are they supposed to afford $34,000.
    They should pick themselves up by their boot straps and get a real job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Well, there's other ways, too. "You've abused your patent filing, so we're negating it and making it public. Now all your competitors can make it, too."
    Eh, they'll just find another drug and another patent to abuse.

    The people responsible should be jailed and the company should be nationalized. If the people responsible were ever let out, they would be placed on a blacklist that essentially prevents them from earning more than minimum wage (IE: the government would take 100% of everything over minimum).

    Punishments need to be felt. I doubt this one was.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    Should be done with a lot of them, always a step though.

    And people honestly wonder why the fuck I despise Pharmaceutical companies, a LOT of them are nothing but charlatans because this gross inflation of prices is all too common.

    [img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/be676532de5dec9363cb9373dbd46345/tumblr_nicjleby561sfctoyo1_1280.jpg[img]
    It's gross exploitation of vulnerable individuals, but is "charlatan" the right word?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    It's gross exploitation of vulnerable individuals, but is "charlatan" the right word?
    Considering many sell placebo drugs for extortionate prices, I'd imagine so.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Example #4203B as to why free-market laissez-faire capitalism doesn't work out in practice. Because a market free of government influence is not automatically a "free market"; health care is a clear example where those who need it are not in a balanced negotiating position, since they can't just refuse to participate in the market without serious consequence.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, there's other ways, too. "You've abused your patent filing, so we're negating it and making it public. Now all your competitors can make it, too."
    I think in general capitalists, or people who think it is the best economic system realize more than most that monopolies must be controlled. They also believe that certain 'natural monopolies' such as public utilities (probably prisons as mentioned above), SHOULD be government controlled for various reasons. Maybe there are capitalists on the fringe that disagree, but I haven't really seen any literature to the contrary.

    Edit:
    Also yes us healthcare system is a total donkey show, yes pharmaceutical companies are scum (most big corporations are, they will all charge a price that maximizes their profits, this is why monopolies are so dangerous), yes the average American would be better of with some sort of western european healthcare system. That being said, like someone mentioned above the US healthcare market (or subsidizing) is a HUGE driver of innovation in medicine.
    Last edited by INVASMANIXOXOXO; 2017-01-20 at 01:53 AM.
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  17. #57
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    Free-market capitalism is no joke. It's good if you already have a lot of money, however.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The stock only ended 6% down? That seems odd - should have been lower. Maybe?
    When pharmaceutical companies settle these kinds of things their stock hardly crashes, the reason is simple they make 500 million and get a fine of 100 million. It is just like big banks we make them pay $100 for stealing $1,000 and the settlement gets the government off their backs for a while.

  19. #59
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    When pharmaceutical companies settle these kinds of things their stock hardly crashes, the reason is simple they make 500 million and get a fine of 100 million. It is just like big banks we make them pay $100 for stealing $1,000 and the settlement gets the government off their backs for a while.
    Right. The penalty needs to be more like "All the profit you could have possibly made off this, plus damages to whatever we assess as those who were priced out of treatment, plus a punitive amount designed to not only impede business by yourself, but to give other companies pause before thinking they can do the same".

    You made $500 million off this? Your penalty's gonna be over a billion, easy. And if you can't pay, well, we'll take the company and all intellectual property you have.


  20. #60
    A fair price for a drug is what a multi-billion dollar international pharmaceutical conglomerate is willing to sell it for, and what a parent is willing to pay to save their dying baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Example #4203B as to why free-market laissez-faire capitalism doesn't work out in practice. Because a market free of government influence is not automatically a "free market"; health care is a clear example where those who need it are not in a balanced negotiating position, since they can't just refuse to participate in the market without serious consequence.
    Works great as long as we ignore copyright law, patents and trademarks, like China does.

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