[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[Slippykins]

I like how you presented your data and derive conclusions from it, it is really well structured, great work.

Any chance you could share your simulationcraft scripts and the excel spreadsheet with the raw data to reproduce those graphs?

Yep! The excel sheet for the graphs is in the post on the second page, and I can upload a representative SimC profile that I used for the discussion on page 1 if you'd like.

[Deleted]

Yep! The excel sheet for the graphs is in the post on the second page,

Saw it now, thanks. (Can't believe I missed it!)

and I can upload a representative SimC profile that I used for the discussion on page 1 if you'd like.

If it's not too bothersome for you, I'd really appreciate it!

[Slippykins]

Saw it now, thanks. (Can't believe I missed it!)



If it's not too bothersome for you, I'd really appreciate it!

Nah no worries, here's two profiles that I used.

http://pastebin.com/WbPWBzVT
http://pastebin.com/PnAU569X

[Darmal]

Am I correct in understanding that when using the hybrid build SL/Inc/SS/SD, during the ST portion of a fight, it doesn't matter what AP spender we use unless we have the 4pc?

[Slippykins]

Am I correct in understanding that when using the hybrid build SL/Inc/SS/SD, during the ST portion of a fight, it doesn't matter what AP spender we use unless we have the 4pc?

With SL/Inc, you will use Starsurge for single-target unequivocally.

[Darmal]

Ok thanks, that makes so much more sense.

[Xyressa]

Hi Slippy, firstly, thank you so much for this amazing thread, I feel really excited to play my Boomkin once again!

Now as for me, I'm running ED/IFE as my legendaries and was despairing in NH as surgeweaving felt so weak, and I couldn't figure out a comfortable set of talents to take. ED never felt more useless.

Am I correct to say that SL/Inc/SS/SD would be my go-to talents for most fights? Apart from clearly primarily ST fights like Krosus. Surgeweave on 1 or 2 targets, Starfall at 3+ seems like the way to go. I feel that taking the cheese-cleave build of WoE/SotF/SS/SD just makes Starsurge (and ED) feel entirely useless and unrewarding to play.

Once I get 4pc, would it be more recommended to switch back to the normal ST build of SL/Inc/BotA/NB? In this case, how many targets would Starfall > Starsurge to cast, without all the Starfall-enhancing talents?

Meanwhile, I guess I should keep praying for Oneth's to drop...

[Slippykins]

Hi Slippy, firstly, thank you so much for this amazing thread, I feel really excited to play my Boomkin once again!

Now as for me, I'm running ED/IFE as my legendaries and was despairing in NH as surgeweaving felt so weak, and I couldn't figure out a comfortable set of talents to take. ED never felt more useless.

Am I correct to say that SL/Inc/SS/SD would be my go-to talents for most fights? Apart from clearly primarily ST fights like Krosus. Surgeweave on 1 or 2 targets, Starfall at 3+ seems like the way to go. I feel that taking the cheese-cleave build of WoE/SotF/SS/SD just makes Starsurge (and ED) feel entirely useless and unrewarding to play.

Once I get 4pc, would it be more recommended to switch back to the normal ST build of SL/Inc/BotA/NB? In this case, how many targets would Starfall > Starsurge to cast, without all the Starfall-enhancing talents?

Meanwhile, I guess I should keep praying for Oneth's to drop...

Heya!

So in terms of the talent priority for ED, it's SL > Inc > NB > BotA. So you're always free to run SL on multi-target fights where you Starsurge between adds. SL/Inc/SS/SD is always a strong hybrid build to take, but there are some fights where a SotF/SS/SD is much more relevant (Skorpyron, Heroic Botanists come to mind).

Overall, 4pc will make your ST stronger, but it wont be enough to overtake the cleave builds on cleave fights. However, it does make SL/Inc/SS/SD a more relevant build for ED users.

GL on the OI!

- - - Updated - - -

Just another small update guys: the Default APL in SimCraft build 715-01 now uses the Modified APL as default. You no longer need to replace the APL when simming your character!

[Darmal]

Slippykins,

Can you shed a little light on the reason you suggest SS over BotA when using the hybrid build? The talents-by-fight spreadsheet in the Druid Discord resources tab suggests that the greater synergy between BotA and Inc make it worth taking over SS. Any thoughts?

[MV Kaa]

Slippykins,

Can you shed a little light on the reason you suggest SS over BotA when using the hybrid build? The talents-by-fight spreadsheet in the Druid Discord resources tab suggests that the greater synergy between BotA and Inc make it worth taking over SS. Any thoughts?

SS is actually pretty decent single target, it is below BotA but not that much to where if you accidently use it on a 1 target fight, you will lose tons of dps.

[Slippykins]

Slippykins,

Can you shed a little light on the reason you suggest SS over BotA when using the hybrid build? The talents-by-fight spreadsheet in the Druid Discord resources tab suggests that the greater synergy between BotA and Inc make it worth taking over SS. Any thoughts?

Hey!

Good question. So before we delve into what talent to choose, let's come up with the reasons as to why you take each talent, and what they're good at.

Blessing of the Ancients

• Consistent generation of AP
• Synergy with Incarnation
• Flexibility (An'she on 3+ targets)

Shooting Stars

• Damage component that scales linearly with targets
• AP generation that scales with targets
• Does not lose any benefit during movement
• Better AP distribution

So there are clear strengths and weaknesses of the two talents. ShS provides AP and damage scaling with targets, so we would expect at some amount of targets for ShS to generate more AP than BotA, as well as providing some damage. Importantly, ShS has two added benefits that are not present with BotA: it does not lose value during movement, and it provides more value per AP than BotA due to it generating more AP when AP is more useful. This is because ShS generates more AP when we are actively using Starfall, which has a higher DPET than Starsurge. Therefore, AP generated by ShS has a higher average effectiveness than AP generated by BotA. This implies that ShS doesn't even need to generate as much AP as BotA for it to provide more damage (ignoring the damage component of course).

In terms of numbers: ShS generates roughly the same amount of AP as BotA on 2-targets: therefore, ShS is better than BotA on 2-target fights simply because it's either equal to or better than BotA in all aspects. 3+ targets, ShS is strictly better than BotA at everything.

So then we come to the more realistic scenario where we consider a fight that is a mixture of ST (where BotA will be better most of the time) and cleave (where ShS will be better all the time). Due to ShS having a more efficient AP distribution over the course of a hybrid fight, and the fact that it loses no benefit from movement, ShS is the preferred talent for NH due to the significant proportion of cleave in most fights, as well as the necessary movement. Of course, BotA still has its place in pure-ST fights (Krosus, Trilliax, Mythic Botanists), so it's not an irrelevant talent to consider.

Hope that clears things up!

[Deleted]

thank you, just wish people will stop thinking that memekin is a viable spec to be used even on single target when literally it only works on Helya because there is 90% of the time more than one target and a phase with 60 adds.

Remember guys; L I T E R A L L Y only on Helya

[Deleted]

Remember guys; L I T E R A L L Y only on Helya

Just because shitters use it on all fights doesnt make it good.

He said literally only helya because that was literally the only fight before NH its good on.

Now its good on 4 more fights, which is Skoryrion, Spellblade and Elisande and HEROIC/NORMAL botanist. (Tich could be argued but I'd argue against it saying that yes you'll do more dps but it wont result in more beneficial dps)

The people that are running it on all the other fights are not playing an optimal spec. (sure its viable, yet it quite a bit behind the normal spec, it just requires no skill to play)

[Deleted]

Im not sure its that good on guldan or anomaly. While there is some cleave possible there are also prio targets. On guldan the first phase will be really good for memekin but thats not really the hard part of the fight.

[Slippykins]

Updated the OP to present the "Starfall vs. Starsurge" discussion in light of people running T19 2pc and 4pc.



It's very clear that Starsurging during ST with the cleave build is the appropriate way to go.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember guys; L I T E R A L L Y only on Helya

It's definitely being used more than expected in NH, however there are two main points to consider:

1. Etraeus is not using memekin, it has Inc as top talent
2. Most people are running SotF/SS/SD in NH because they want to test its limits while doing Heroic, and since the proportion of Boomkins running the build is excessively high, it's more likely it will be represented in top ranks. Therefore, it's over-represented and may fall significantly after a few weeks of NH when Boomkins have tested the other talent builds out.

[MV Kaa]

Remember guys; L I T E R A L L Y only on Helya

Yes, please tell us more how HEROIC fights have anything to do with mythic? Please tell me how happy your RL will be when you go full aoe spec on Tich, Guldan, and Anamoly

[Darmal]

Thank you for that in depth response to my ShS vs Botany question. Yes it did clear it up.

[Myztikrice]

Keep the MV Kaa shitshow in his own threads please

[MV Kaa]

Keep the MV Kaa shitshow in his own threads please

Why are you being to toxic?

[Raptrap]

Hey guys, im not sure If i did it right but, my simcraft is actually simming better with 875 arcanocrystal than 910 kil'jaeden. Can someone double check it for me?

Thats for the regular single target build
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