Help with MM rotation

[Deleted]

Hello hunters,

i'm trying to follow this:

- In no-proc periods: Arcane Shot Icon Arcane Shot until 95 Focus, then Aimed Shot Icon Aimed Shot to not Focus cap and repeat. If Icon Windburst becomes available during one of these periods, use it immediately and generate focus withArcane Shot Icon Arcane Shot afterwards. Then, towards the end of the Vulnerable Icon Vulnerable window, cast the 2 Aimed Shots with roughly 4 seconds remaining on Vulnerable Icon Vulnerable.

- When you get a proc: → Marked Shot Icon Marked Shot → Keep Cast Arcane Shot Icon Arcane Shot once (twice with extremely high Haste) so that there is only ~4 seconds remaining on Vulnerable → 2x Aimed Shot Icon Aimed Shots.

But lot of time i don't have enough focus to cast 2 aimed shot.
I'm trying to keep up Vulnerable with 100% uptime. So usually i'm casting marked shot with low focus.

I dont understand if i'm wrong or the rotation is more flexible.

[Deleted]

Hi,

I think you should cast Arcane Shot (AS) till >95 Focus always befor you use Marked Shot (MS). So rotation in proc should look like that:
AS till 95 Focus ->MS->AS->2xAiS->AS till 95 Focus... Use Windburst only when you didnt get proc. In this rotation are a lot of wasted MS, it seems so unnatural, but this spec look like that after 7.1.5

Sorry for my bad English

[eschatological]

Hello hunters,


But lot of time i don't have enough focus to cast 2 aimed shot.
I'm trying to keep up Vulnerable with 100% uptime. So usually i'm casting marked shot with low focus.

I dont understand if i'm wrong or the rotation is more flexible.

The guide, right now, suggests always AS til 95 focus, even if you have a marked shot proc. That way you can MS->AS->AiSx2 and have the last two be at the end of the PS window, where they do the maximum damage. This playstyle tends to lead to overwriting already-procced MS.

I know some hunters who are experimenting with using MS as it procs and just spamming AS inside the window, making sure to land one Aimed Shot at the end of the window (where it does the most damage), but that style requires you to understand your haste more intimately, and how many AS you can fire before firing off the last Aimed Shot.

Ultimately, I don't know if anyone has run extensive sims to see if the 2nd method can massage more damage from the spec (more marked shots, potentially less Aimed Shots in the PS window, but you're losing the lesser-buffed Aimed Shots). I imagine people will be tinkering with the APL for awhile.

[Deleted]

The guide, right now, suggests always AS til 95 focus, even if you have a marked shot proc. That way you can MS->AS->AiSx2 and have the last two be at the end of the PS window, where they do the maximum damage. This playstyle tends to lead to overwriting already-procced MS.

I know some hunters who are experimenting with using MS as it procs and just spamming AS inside the window, making sure to land one Aimed Shot at the end of the window (where it does the most damage), but that style requires you to understand your haste more intimately, and how many AS you can fire before firing off the last Aimed Shot.

Ultimately, I don't know if anyone has run extensive sims to see if the 2nd method can massage more damage from the spec (more marked shots, potentially less Aimed Shots in the PS window, but you're losing the lesser-buffed Aimed Shots). I imagine people will be tinkering with the APL for awhile.

The 95 focus is the point of no-capping focus not the focus you should pool before apply vulnerable(MS or WB).
You should apply vulnerable whenever its available and you are not inside a vulnerable window.

The guide is explained as an APL so lets see if I can add another perspective explaining it as a event-based rotation.

1.You AS till 95 and then AiS to not cap focus.

This "rotation" stops at a MT proc or WB becomes available.

MT Proc

1.AS (or MS at multitarget)
2.MS.
3.AS.

The 4th step is the key here and the real decision in the rotation.

Are you gonna have enough focus to cast 2 AiS inside this Window?
4.1.NO -> As
4.2.YES -> Ais
5.Ais

Now,its not like we are losing focus for casting just 1 Ais inside the window.The focus you havent used by casting AS instead of Ais in point 4 is going to be available for the next vulnerable window so in the end we alternate between two rotations in the MT event (based on how much focus we have at the MT proc).

"Bad Event" (not enough focus)

AS(or Multi) ->MS -> AS -> AS ->Ais

"Good Event"

AS(or Multi) -> MS ->As -> Ais ->Ais


WB available

Almost exactly the same as the MT proc but given travel time and distance you are going to be able (many times) to fit 2 AS before the first Ais so

"Bad WB"
WB -> As ->As-> *As -> Ais

"Good WB"
WB -> As -> As->*Ais ->Ais

(*) Am i gonna have enough focus to cast 2 Ais before the window end?

As we can see the rotation is just choosing(based on focus) if we end the window with As+Ais or 2xAis although theres (of course) exceptions: under high haste procs or at focus cap you try to fit 3xAis inside the Window.

I hope this clarifies the rotation ( and hope too Im understanding it right lol).

[Pounced]

The 95 focus is the point of no-capping focus not the focus you should pool before apply vulnerable(MS or WB).
You should apply vulnerable whenever its available and you are not inside a vulnerable window.

The guide is explained as an APL so lets see if I can add another perspective explaining it as a event-based rotation.

1.You AS till 95 and then AiS to not cap focus.

This "rotation" stops at a MT proc or WB becomes available.

MT Proc

1.AS (or MS at multitarget)
2.MS.
3.AS.

The 4th step is the key here and the real decision in the rotation.

Are you gonna have enough focus to cast 2 AiS inside this Window?
4.1.NO -> As
4.2.YES -> Ais
5.Ais

Now,its not like we are losing focus for casting just 1 Ais inside the window.The focus you havent used by casting AS instead of Ais in point 4 is going to be available for the next vulnerable window so in the end we alternate between two rotations in the MT event (based on how much focus we have at the MT proc).

"Bad Event" (not enough focus)

AS(or Multi) ->MS -> AS -> AS ->Ais

"Good Event"

AS(or Multi) -> MS ->As -> Ais ->Ais


WB available

Almost exactly the same as the MT proc but given travel time and distance you are going to be able (many times) to fit 2 AS before the first Ais so

"Bad WB"
WB -> As ->As-> *As -> Ais

"Good WB"
WB -> As -> As->*Ais ->Ais

(*) Am i gonna have enough focus to cast 2 Ais before the window end?

As we can see the rotation is just choosing(based on focus) if we end the window with As+Ais or 2xAis although theres (of course) exceptions: under high haste procs or at focus cap you try to fit 3xAis inside the Window.

I hope this clarifies the rotation ( and hope too Im understanding it right lol).

I was told it is just better to aimed shot in the last 2/3rds of the Vuln window than to try and fit in 3x AiS now due to the hotfix. Wouldn't it make sense to always have your aimed shots in the later half of Vuln?

[Deleted]

The 95 focus is the point of no-capping focus not the focus you should pool before apply vulnerable(MS or WB).
You should apply vulnerable whenever its available and you are not inside a vulnerable window.

The guide is explained as an APL so lets see if I can add another perspective explaining it as a event-based rotation.

1.You AS till 95 and then AiS to not cap focus.

This "rotation" stops at a MT proc or WB becomes available.

MT Proc

1.AS (or MS at multitarget)
2.MS.
3.AS.

The 4th step is the key here and the real decision in the rotation.

Are you gonna have enough focus to cast 2 AiS inside this Window?
4.1.NO -> As
4.2.YES -> Ais
5.Ais

Now,its not like we are losing focus for casting just 1 Ais inside the window.The focus you havent used by casting AS instead of Ais in point 4 is going to be available for the next vulnerable window so in the end we alternate between two rotations in the MT event (based on how much focus we have at the MT proc).

"Bad Event" (not enough focus)

AS(or Multi) ->MS -> AS -> AS ->Ais

"Good Event"

AS(or Multi) -> MS ->As -> Ais ->Ais


WB available

Almost exactly the same as the MT proc but given travel time and distance you are going to be able (many times) to fit 2 AS before the first Ais so

"Bad WB"
WB -> As ->As-> *As -> Ais

"Good WB"
WB -> As -> As->*Ais ->Ais

(*) Am i gonna have enough focus to cast 2 Ais before the window end?

As we can see the rotation is just choosing(based on focus) if we end the window with As+Ais or 2xAis although theres (of course) exceptions: under high haste procs or at focus cap you try to fit 3xAis inside the Window.

I hope this clarifies the rotation ( and hope too Im understanding it right lol).

Your rotation is harder to execute well. You have to really watch on your Focus, and if you do mistake - you are f**ked. When you spam AS till >90 focus and then do MS->AS->2xAiS then your rotation is almost always the same. And during spaming AS you have more time to correct your positioning.

[Deleted]

I was told it is just better to aimed shot in the last 2/3rds of the Vuln window than to try and fit in 3x AiS now due to the hotfix. Wouldn't it make sense to always have your aimed shots in the later half of Vuln?

Of course but 3xAis is inside special conditions (high haste or focus cap with WB) not the general rotation.Its the exception not the rule.

As example your opener is (after WB+TS) : Ais+As+3xAiS...

For most of the times you are not gonna have enough focus to 3xAis inside a vulnerable if you dont pool (and you shouldnt pool).

Your rotation is harder to execute well. You have to really watch on your Focus, and if you do mistake - you are f**ked. When you spam AS till >90 focus and then do MS->AS->2xAiS then your rotation is almost always the same. And during spaming AS you have more time to correct your positioning.

Its harder indeed but i disagree its the same.The reason Azor changed its guide from pooling focus to not pooling focus (now) illustrates its not the same.

[adamaj]

The 95 focus is the point of no-capping focus not the focus you should pool before apply vulnerable(MS or WB).
You should apply vulnerable whenever its available and you are not inside a vulnerable window.

The guide is explained as an APL so lets see if I can add another perspective explaining it as a event-based rotation.

1.You AS till 95 and then AiS to not cap focus.

This "rotation" stops at a MT proc or WB becomes available.

MT Proc

1.AS (or MS at multitarget)
2.MS.
3.AS.

The 4th step is the key here and the real decision in the rotation.

Are you gonna have enough focus to cast 2 AiS inside this Window?
4.1.NO -> As
4.2.YES -> Ais
5.Ais

Now,its not like we are losing focus for casting just 1 Ais inside the window.The focus you havent used by casting AS instead of Ais in point 4 is going to be available for the next vulnerable window so in the end we alternate between two rotations in the MT event (based on how much focus we have at the MT proc).

"Bad Event" (not enough focus)

AS(or Multi) ->MS -> AS -> AS ->Ais

"Good Event"

AS(or Multi) -> MS ->As -> Ais ->Ais


WB available

Almost exactly the same as the MT proc but given travel time and distance you are going to be able (many times) to fit 2 AS before the first Ais so

"Bad WB"
WB -> As ->As-> *As -> Ais

"Good WB"
WB -> As -> As->*Ais ->Ais

(*) Am i gonna have enough focus to cast 2 Ais before the window end?

As we can see the rotation is just choosing(based on focus) if we end the window with As+Ais or 2xAis although theres (of course) exceptions: under high haste procs or at focus cap you try to fit 3xAis inside the Window.

I hope this clarifies the rotation ( and hope too Im understanding it right lol).

Thank you very much for that explanation! What happens if you get another Marking Targets proc on step three, or the step four Arcane Shot? Also, I'm still not clear on aoe. For example, during Trueshot (when aoeing large groups of adds) should we just spam back and forth between Multi-Shot and Marked Shot, or should we also use Aimed Shot and Windburst? And outside of Trueshot what is the best rotation with large groups of adds? Is it the same as single target only you use Multi-Shot instead of Arcane Shot? Should we bother with Windburst while dpsing large groups of adds? How I've been doing it outside of Trueshot is spamming Multi-Shot to try to get a proc to use Marked Shot, and if I get focus capped without getting a proc I Windburst for Vulnerable and fire a couple of Aimed Shots. Is this correct? Thanks.

[Deleted]

Hello there,

I used this guide - "Twise's MM Hunter Guide 7.1.5" which you'll find on youtube (Unavailable to post links due to my first time posting) - to help me with the understanding of the rotation and when to spam multishot/marked shot. Additionally also getting to know what talents are the best for what boss fights. Hope Twise's guide will answer what you seek