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  1. #1

    7.1.5 mm is dragon soul mm (except worse)

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the new MM rotation is just like the dragon soul one? You would chain cast steady shots to keep the careful aim buff up, then dump focus with arcanes and aimed until it wore off before chaincasting again. Chimera was your on CD special shot, and then you had a stacking buff that would give you instacast aimed shots that would proc off your arcanes.

    If we swapped the current arcane shot for a steadyshot you could move while casting, the rotations would be almost interchangeable (swapping marked for chimera, assuming could keep vulnerable up).

    Forgive the brevity of the post. I'm on my phone.

    Make MM great again.

  2. #2
    Most of us were SV in Dragon Soul, as far as I remember.

    I played MM in Firelands though, and I liked the rhythmic nature of MM. It wasn't so much about focus management, but SF management and fitting aimed shots into a Chimaera Shot window (8s if you had the CD glyphed down to 9s).

    The difference between then and now is that focus is a bigger limiter now than it was then. Because SS had a cast time, our focus costs were lower (iirc) and we rarely had the spikey focus flow I think MM has now. You could survive with just three SS in your ChS window (2 paired to maintain SF) and spend the rest on aimed shot with no difficulty. Now, in a Trueshot window, your AiS casting is limited by how fast you can generate focus. Now, the maintenance of vulnerable (and the stacking buff of PS) is a much bigger deal than maintaining SF, which was merely an increased focus gain buff.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Most of us were SV in Dragon Soul, as far as I remember.

    I played MM in Firelands though, and I liked the rhythmic nature of MM. It wasn't so much about focus management, but SF management and fitting aimed shots into a Chimaera Shot window (8s if you had the CD glyphed down to 9s).

    The difference between then and now is that focus is a bigger limiter now than it was then. Because SS had a cast time, our focus costs were lower (iirc) and we rarely had the spikey focus flow I think MM has now. You could survive with just three SS in your ChS window (2 paired to maintain SF) and spend the rest on aimed shot with no difficulty. Now, in a Trueshot window, your AiS casting is limited by how fast you can generate focus. Now, the maintenance of vulnerable (and the stacking buff of PS) is a much bigger deal than maintaining SF, which was merely an increased focus gain buff.
    I thought everyone switched to MM for DS like I did since the set bonus was so ridiculous.

    I get what you're saying. Maybe they be more similar with better focus regen currently, I remember it being pretty spikey back then too, I just feel like the rotation generated enough that it made sense. We generate enough currently too, the only problem is the wasted marked shots. If they weren't connected to a proc, but were on a CD like sidewinders I bet we could Mae a much more effective rotation than the gongshow we have now.

  4. #4
    I'm pretty sure we played SV in Dragon Soul as they buffed it that patch. I even remember using Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow for the first month until they hotfixed Black Arrow.

  5. #5
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    im pretty sure ive been sv as well.
    hasnt it been mm for fl and sv for ds? not too sure anymore.

  6. #6
    Obnoxious Patriots Fan Darth Belichick's Avatar
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    SV with good gear and played by a competent player could rival (not equal) a rogue w/ Legendary Daggers at one point in DS.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Kissthebaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Belichick View Post
    SV with good gear and played by a competent player could rival (not equal) a rogue w/ Legendary Daggers at one point in DS.
    The glory days of the spec.

  8. #8
    Dragon Soul was definitely survival territory. Some people played MM (myself included for progress and the first few kills) on Spine purely for the burst on tendons in the beginning meaning December & January, before the hotfixes. The same hotfixes that finally made hunters viable again - the only tier I've ever experienced hunters literally being benched, even the guild I was in had hunters swap to alts.

    As for the topic at hand, nah, I don't feel like it's the old MM at all. If my memory serves me correctly cataclysm MM outside of careful aim range was basically kill shot > chimera > aimed shot with proc/high haste > steady shots in pairs for ISS > focusdumping with arcane or if your gear (haste) allowed it, hardcast aimed. Also a serpent sting thrown in there somewhere on pull and refreshed with chimera.

    I just can't see the resemblance. Now you're mostly focusing on having as high uptime as possible on vulnerable and fitting aimed shots within that window, with the occasional a murder of crows weaved in the middle.
    In Soviet Russia, you loot to raid.

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  9. #9
    Obnoxious Patriots Fan Darth Belichick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kissthebaby View Post
    The glory days of the spec.
    Yeah. Legion Survival makes me sad. SV during SoO w/ 4 piece was a close second to DS SV. The current melee spec is an abomination. Granted, BM and SV were both fantastic in SoO. One of the better times to be a hunter imo. MoP is such an underrated xpac, except for SoO being out way, way too long.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
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    I'd take Cataclysm MM over 7.x MM any day.

  11. #11
    Obnoxious Patriots Fan Darth Belichick's Avatar
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    WotLK MM w/ Armor Pen was the shit too. Just remembered.

  12. #12
    I'm actually having a lot more fun with MM now that I'm not enslaved to Sidewinders.

  13. #13
    Only downside is low PS scaling, it would be more rewarding if it scaled like 15% per sec at least

  14. #14
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    I guess it only took Legion MM hunter to make people look back fondly at Cataclysm. That's how fucked hunters are right now.

  15. #15
    It's so little fun, I went BM for some emissary questing to see how that was.

    And that's the story of how I finally got a DPS Legendary, and it's for the wrong fucking spec. They really need to put utility and individual spec bad luck protection on separate rolls for these.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    It's so little fun, I went BM for some emissary questing to see how that was.

    And that's the story of how I finally got a DPS Legendary, and it's for the wrong fucking spec. They really need to put utility and individual spec bad luck protection on separate rolls for these.
    i wouldnt argue against having bad luck protection independant for speccs but cmon, if you didnt manage to set lootspec to mm even once since legion its not blizz to blame. hint: your loot spec doesnt reset when respeccing. it only changes when you have set it to "current".

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Belichick View Post
    WotLK MM w/ Armor Pen was the shit too. Just remembered.
    Idd. Chimera, aimed, steady steady steady, no build up, just chimera on cd (10s), aimed on cd (9s or so), and steady without moving. So amazing. Less thinking than legion BM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyas View Post
    Does anyone else get the feeling that the new MM rotation is just like the dragon soul one? You would chain cast steady shots to keep the careful aim buff up, then dump focus with arcanes and aimed until it wore off before chaincasting again. Chimera was your on CD special shot, and then you had a stacking buff that would give you instacast aimed shots that would proc off your arcanes.

    If we swapped the current arcane shot for a steadyshot you could move while casting, the rotations would be almost interchangeable (swapping marked for chimera, assuming could keep vulnerable up).

    Forgive the brevity of the post. I'm on my phone.

    Make MM great again.
    Cata MM was top in FL only and cata MM was pure cancer. It also was so far ahead of the other two specs that it was MM or quit and i quit. Progression on FL was the same time SWTOR was released.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SL1200 View Post
    I guess it only took Legion MM hunter to make people look back fondly at Cataclysm. That's how fucked hunters are right now.
    ya glad i am not playing MM....i quite wow b/c of MM in cata. MM cata was cancer.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Belichick View Post
    Yeah. Legion Survival makes me sad. SV during SoO w/ 4 piece was a close second to DS SV. The current melee spec is an abomination. Granted, BM and SV were both fantastic in SoO. One of the better times to be a hunter imo. MoP is such an underrated xpac, except for SoO being out way, way too long.
    MM could've been viable if they buff the AE of the spec but nope

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kalomina View Post
    i wouldnt argue against having bad luck protection independant for speccs but cmon, if you didnt manage to set lootspec to mm even once since legion its not blizz to blame. hint: your loot spec doesnt reset when respeccing. it only changes when you have set it to "current".
    It's been set to current since WoD. I've been MM since Blizzard suddenly decided that they didn't like how Survival played and nerfed it to oblivion.

    Still, I might actually try it out in raids now. Hate what MM has become, and I'm shit at it.

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