Chelsea Manning during basic training

[daerellin]

These people dont get it, they just dont fucking understand that you cant just do what you think is right. You have a job in the military, his was not to decide if shit should be pushed public. It was to do his job and maintain the proper security on the information he handled. He had zero right deciding that those things he leaked should be made public.

Maybe part of our burden is helping our fellow countrymen understand what the reality of the world is, separate from their comfortable lives in the United States (or allied territory). I've spent more of my life overseas than I have at home, and I'm definitely grateful for the position it put me in to better understand the state of world affairs.

Then again, maybe nobody actually gives a fuck and we should just keep to ourselves. -shrugs-

EDIT: I'm slowly reaching a point of inebriation that will make it difficult for me to debate effectively, so it's probably time to take a break from the forums regardless. Hopefully I don't get flamed a bunch overnight, I think I succeeded at being civil >.>

[Blacktop Cadence]

I have no idea if this is the case, but I have read many articles that deem these transgender creatures to be mentally ill.

Such as http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/02/14305/.

Here's one where transgender activists have been preying upon autistic children, trying to recruit them. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/a...dered-movement


[Infracted]

My case rests.

Can't quote the AMA, the AAP, either APA, or any other organization of note.

Dude has to quote right wing conspiracy theories.

Though, as someone who works with autistic kids, I find it pretty funny they can be recruited into anything. Some people apparently have a REALLY low opinion of these folks.

[daerellin]

My case rests.

Can't quote the AMA, the AAP, either APA, or any other organization of note.

Dude has to quote right wing conspiracy theories.

Though, as someone who works with autistic kids, I find it pretty funny they can be recruited into anything. Some people apparently have a REALLY low opinion of these folks.

Willfully ignorant people like this do not represent all of us "on the right", I promise you. Unfortunately it is taking those of us with some sense a lot of time, effort, and money, to prove to you that we exist.

EDIT: I meant to quote the person you quoted >.> Please see above post about me verging on being drunk

[McFuu]

..? Did I miss something in an article somewhere? You don't get "hand selected" into intelligence, unless you are a high-ranking officer holding a prestigious position. He selected intelligence as his MOS because his ASVAB scores allowed him to, just like nearly every other job in the Army. And, to be quite honest, a moderately bright monkey could score high enough to select an intelligence MOS. Even I made it! >.>

Out of all the people I've met in the Military, across all branches and countries... People who have the MOS intel analyst are the biggest group of morons I've encountered. Really only 2 other groups rival their overall lack of common sense and ability to actually use their intelligence are cooks and artillery. And that's mainly because cooks and arty are the bottom of the barrel test score MOS's.

One that worked in our COC (ops center) thought Australia was connected to America around Arizona. We had another who didn't know what a UAV was even though they were in charge of communicating to the UAV operators to acquire targets.

So honestly I could 100% believe that to Bradley Manning his disclosure of all that information wouldn't cause any issues or danger. It still doesn't excuse the breach and he really should have been left where he was.

[volescue]

Rules for the sake of rules make the whole world blind.

People in glass houses sink ships?

[daerellin]

So honestly I could 100% believe that to Bradley Manning his disclosure of all that information wouldn't cause any issues or danger. It still doesn't excuse the breach and he really should have been left where he was.

I wish this were the case, but he was just being spiteful. Read back a few pages on my initial posts if you want to know what happened. The reality is a lot pettier than people think.

[Cruor]

I was very confused while reading the original post, who the hell is Chelsea Manning? OOHHH Bradly Manning. There were typos in the original post and it was meant to be HE each time instead of she, I understand now.

Regardless of whatever insane motivations drive you to call a human who was born with a penis a "she" HE is a man and HE had a penis and no hormone treatment when HE was in basic training. HE had the procedure later, and became a HE with a removed penis and female hormones pumped in later. Yes, please infract me for my use of freedom of speech and opinion, but regardless of how you feel he was a normal he at the time of the incident in question.

Anyway, reading that gave me a shudder, remembering when I went to basic training, and constantly being punished for the mistakes of others, a lot like raiding in WoW only much worse. Basic is tough but if you just do what you are told, both Drill Sgts and other soldiers will leave you alone. Having a rough time in basic is no excuse for what HE did.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Having a rough time in basic is no excuse for what HE did.

SHE has never tried using her time in basic as an excuse.

[Fenicks]

Ah, Basic Training...so many fun memories.

A lot of it is basically trying to see how much shit you can get away with when the drill sergeant isn't looking. The old motto was "it's not bad if you don't get caught."

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I wish this were the case, but he was just being spiteful. Read back a few pages on my initial posts if you want to know what happened. The reality is a lot pettier than people think.

Your opinion ≠ Reality.

You said yourself that you can't prove it.

[Zeta333]

SHE has never tried using her time in basic as an excuse.

she was a he in basic training and the military.

[daerellin]

Your opinion ≠ Reality.

You said yourself that you can't prove it.

Of course. You and everyone else are quite welcome to believe whatever you wish. This is the internet, after all. I chimed in here to speak my truth because I was there, and I did that. I have no desire to waste my time or yours trying to prove anything to you; your mind was well made up before you had any facts.

[Cruor]

SHE has never tried using her time in basic as an excuse.

He is a he. Do you honestly deny he had a penis and a nut sack when he was in basic training, which is what the article was talking about? If you die, but I am telling a story about your life, would I say "I remember when Sicari's dead body did this and that.... oh, those were the days, he will be missed" I honestly did not know who the hell the article was talking about, I was like "manning, that's familiar" I had to google it and was like Oh... for fucks sake... he.. ok, got it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

she was a he in basic training and the military.

She had Gender Dysphoria when she joined the military.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course. You and everyone else are quite welcome to believe whatever you wish. This is the internet, after all. I chimed in here to speak my truth because I was there, and I did that. I have no desire to waste my time or yours trying to prove anything to you; your mind was well made up before you had any facts.

That's one hell of a presumptive thing to say to someone. Almost like you just made your mind up about me before you had any facts.

[BelziBhaal]

Dude has to quote right wing conspiracy theories.

Though, as someone who works with autistic kids, I find it pretty funny they can be recruited into anything. Some people apparently have a REALLY low opinion of these folks.

I'm completely apolitical, so I have no idea what left and right wing actually means. I can recognise liberal bullshit when I see it, however. Also because it doesn't conform to your obvious left wing ideals, it's automatically right wing conspiracy theory. Rofl.

I'd tell you exactly what I think of "transgender", but it would end up with one of the sjw mods getting triggered and permbanning me.

[Spiffums]

This seems like a pretty baseless hit-piece, without any corroboration. I'd take it with a pillar of salt.

Particularly with the HUGE doses of completely asinine hoo-rah bullshit, like the ranting about how drill sergeants are some kind of divine nobility or some bullshit. They're just dudes that are particularly good at yelling and keeping their shit together. That's literally all it takes. They're not divine superhumans who bless you with their hatred or some garbage. They yell to stress you out, and that's it. It's a stupid game. It's literally the same thing Gordon Ramsay does on Hell's Kitchen. The moment you REALIZE it's a stupid game is the moment basic training stops seeming impossible, because you realize you're not supposed to actually ACCOMPLISH most of the tasks you get given. Just survive the trying.

And before anyone takes this the wrong way, I'm not saying drill sergeants are idiots or something. Just that they're soldiers like anyone else. They have a particular set of skills that involve looking good in uniform and yelling a lot, and that's all it really takes; the techniques for pushing recruits to the limit can be learned pretty easily. I'm not condemning them as "bad", just taking issue with the hoo-rah nonsense spewed in the article.

They are for the 8 to 9 weeks of Basic. They are your Mommy and Daddy.....they tell you that right up front. No one goes into the armed force blind to what basic is. Hell there are even movies that basically spell it out even if they are over dramatized.

[Mihalik]

I welcome your opinion, because you're allowed to have one. However, I don't expect you to understand what it takes to put mission first with the goal of saving your own life and that of your battle buddies. Life is very, very different in combat. If people don't follow orders, the potential for catastrophe is immense. I don't fault you for feeling this way. I know this is an assumption, but you seem very far removed from the realities of combat and war. Awful. Shit. Happens. Literally every hour of every day. You go outside to take a piss and get splattered with your squad mate's blood as he explodes after stepping on UXO. You're expected to wipe that blood off and go about seeking and destroying the enemy. That's, you know, any given Tuesday. In a reality THAT fucked up, the rules are different.

First of all, you need to get off your high horse for a second. At the point where you are willing to follow orders that are immoral, because you fail at maintaining a moral center, you are no longer defending the country or serving others, on the contrary you betray the country and the ideals that the nation is ought to stand for.

You cannot, simply cannot shrug this off and spew some nonsense about "mission first". Not if the mission is in the first place contrary to the laws and principles of the nation and simple morality.

The rest that you are talking about is utterly irrelevant to the case at hand, and if it would be, being exposed to danger even death, does not justify immoral actions. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The rules are most certainly not different! Shit happens doesn't cut it. If it does happen people need to take responsibility and redress the errors, covering it up, doesn't fix the problem, and outright turns a possibly tragic error into a crime.

This is EXACTLY why the military is subject to civilian rule and oversight and not viceversa. When that oversight fails, then core principles of the nation are being betrayed.

In such a situation what Manning has done has returned us to how the status quo is intended to be, civilians and citizens judging the military and the government, as it is ought to be.

It is obvious that you don't see this, and have bought way too into the Kool Aid, and on some level that is understandable, but I still think you lack moral fiber or an understanding of your duties.

[daerellin]

She had Gender Dysphoria when she joined the military.

This is what I mean by the real issue being obfuscated by the fact that he is transgendered... I don't suppose I'm going to get anywhere with you though.

[Mormolyce]

Seems like a pretty soft critique for a hit piece *shrug*.

There are a lot of people who slip through the cracks when it comes to the "weeding out the undesirables" aspect of US boot camps.

Interesting story: When I was in basic training we had a guy who made himself a radio so he could listen to ball games. He managed to obtain through scavenging the materials he needed and made a headphone out of a razorblade and cotton ball. Rumor was he grew the crystal in a toothpaste tube, but that part was sketchy. Anyway, he got kicked out of basic training and therefore the Navy. You might ask yourself, "Why would they get rid of a guy who could make a radio out of practically nothing?" The reason was simple: You're not supposed to have a radio in basic training. It doesn't matter if you smuggled one in or shoplifted one from the NEX or made one out of scavenged crystals, copper wire and cotton balls. It's a test of obedience, not resourcefulness. If he would have waited until after basic training to do this Gilligan's Island shit, he would have been fine.

And that's why the US is losing the information age war :P

- - - Updated - - -

He is a he. Do you honestly deny he had a penis and a nut sack when he was in basic training, which is what the article was talking about?

Why do you care?

I can see why Manning cares. Can't really see why anyone else does.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This is what I mean by the real issue being obfuscated by the fact that he is transgendered... I don't suppose I'm going to get anywhere with you though.

I can keep the gender dysphoria and the leaking of the documents separate. I just choose to identify her the way she chooses to be identified.