Pedestrians run down, shots fired in Melbourne (developing story)

[zephid]

Public transportations would be enough, i have never owned a car and makes do fine with trains and busses only. Think we would do just fine + we could remove alot of ugly roads and shit.

Sure, public transport could work for those people who live in cities with a well developed public transport network. And even in those cities you would have to expand to be able to accommodate everyone, which would take several years. And lets not forget about those who doesn't live in the cities, they don't really have a choice, they need cars. We also have a lot of people who use a car for work, delivery men, taxi drivers, etc etc.

[Radio]

1. Didn't the article say there was a shoot out? For there to be a shoot out, both sides have to be shooting.
2. Don't the guns have to be kept at a Shooting Club, where you have to check the guns in and out? (Can't have one at your house)? Exception being ranchers that have them for predators and the likes?
3. Who would have thought. A law that makes owning guns essentially illegal and requires you to turn them in, does not stop criminals from having them.

1. No, there were witness reports that they heard shots fired. Then the report from the police indicated that they rammed his car, shot him in the arm and then arrested him.
2. Depends on the state, but in Queensland, where I live, you need to store it in a private gun safe that meets the regulations.
3. Still reduced gun crime and homicide immensely and spooked most of those who still get their hands on them into only shooting eachother.

[Murderdoll]

Public transportations would be enough, i have never owned a car and makes do fine with trains and busses only. Think we would do just fine + we could remove alot of ugly roads and shit.

Public Transport in Australia doesnt work as well as it does on an Island the size of one of our cities.

Same reason why its not as easy for us to run Fibre optic everywhere. Australia is fucking massive with a large urban sprawl. Due to housing costs etc a lot of people commute an hour + each way just to get to work. We rely on our cars a lot in this country.

----

The person in question claims to be muslim, theres a video of him yelling out some Allah nonsense. He also claims a lot of other rubbish. Hes honestly just a drug fucked idiot and if you looked at his Facebook im shocked he has two braincells to rub together.

He has been convicted numerous times for drug offences and has been in front of the court for family violence matters. He was recently granted bail last week.

This case is interesting for a number of reasons.

Bail in the this state has become a joke. We currently have a massive problem with Sudanese crime amongst teenagers and they have been breaking bail time and time again and still be released because our jails are at capacity. We have a very, very left leaning stance on Justice. Our police force has been hog tied with regulations for about 10 years now.

A) The courts failed to deny bail to a repeat violent offender.

B) He was suspected of stabbing his brother some 14 hours before this incident and wasnt arrested.

C) The police have very strict chase rules and were told to stop chasing him due to public safety (gee how did that work out?)

D) The police are NOT allowed to ram here - the last copper who did faced some very serious penalties.

This was a wake up call for the system in this country and its been a long time coming. The courts are far to soft on violent crimes. You get a harsher punishment for doing burnouts or speeding than you do for car jacking. The police are hog tied because of policies introduced during the Rob Hulls/Christine Nixon administration where they just hugged everyone.

People who keep shitting on about our gun laws. Guns here arent uncommon. Theres a shooting here everyday, its just involving people we dont give a shit about (bikies, middle eastern crime gangs) so it goes largely unreported. Most guns are now home made or stolen and a lot of them are stolen from police.

[Noogai131]

1. Didn't the article say there was a shoot out? For there to be a shoot out, both sides have to be shooting.
2. Don't the guns have to be kept at a Shooting Club, where you have to check the guns in and out? (Can't have one at your house)? Exception being ranchers that have them for predators and the likes?
3. Who would have thought. A law that makes owning guns essentially illegal and requires you to turn them in, does not stop criminals from having them.

Nope, you can store guns in your own home, provided you have the correct size and weight of safe, or it's bolted into a concrete floor.

[Murderdoll]

Nope, you can store guns in your own home, provided you have the correct size and weight of safe, or it's bolted into a concrete floor.

Correct. Its also dependent on the type of firearm.

I live in suburban Melbourne, about 45 mins out of the CBD.

Have guns stored at home I also have a couple of rifles stored at a range. Ammo has to be stored separately to the firearm itself. Typically the safe needs to be secured to the frame of the house in some way.

With that being said, a firearm safe isnt exactly hard to break into. Theyre designed to be a deterrent, not absolute security. Hell, the safe can be even made of wood. The only condition that is listed is "not easily penetrable".

Funnily enough, most stolen guns come from rural police stations.

[Noogai131]

Correct. Its also dependent on the type of firearm.

I live in suburban Melbourne, about 45 mins out of the CBD.

Have guns stored at home I also have a couple of rifles stored at a range. Ammo has to be stored separately to the firearm itself. Typically the safe needs to be secured to the frame of the house in some way.

With that being said, a firearm safe isnt exactly hard to break into. Theyre designed to be a deterrent, not absolute security. Hell, the safe can be even made of wood. The only condition that is listed is "not easily penetrable".

Funnily enough, most stolen guns come from rural police stations.

I also highly doubt he's a licensed gun owner. His attitude alone makes him unfit to own in Australia.

It's incredibly easy to get handguns and rifles on the "black market" here in australia. I knew a guy who said for 400 bucks he could get you a pistol and 2 magazines worth of ammo, no questions asked. This is in a decent sized city, I'd hate to know jsut how easy it is in melbourne.

[Murderdoll]

I also highly doubt he's a licensed gun owner. His attitude alone makes him unfit to own in Australia.

It's incredibly easy to get handguns and rifles on the "black market" here in australia. I knew a guy who said for 400 bucks he could get you a pistol and 2 magazines worth of ammo, no questions asked. This is in a decent sized city, I'd hate to know jsut how easy it is in melbourne.

...and thats what people dont understand. They see our law and they think OH WE DID IT!

Well no. We didnt.

We are seeing now that guns are actually incredibly easy to get and a large part of the success back in the 90s was that we were an island with no land borders.

Now we have much higher trade traffic, we are seeing guns being imported. Guns being stolen. Guns being made and a lot of guns that were simply not handed back in the 90s because criminals dont follow the law.

Most of the guns are being accessed through the Middle Eastern crime gangs here in Melbourne and Sydney.

The biggest thing were all overlooking is that if you want to kill someone, youre going to find a way and this guy, through drug issues, was going to do some damage eventually and the courts just kept letting him out.

[Unhinged]

1. Didn't the article say there was a shoot out? For there to be a shoot out, both sides have to be shooting.
2. Don't the guns have to be kept at a Shooting Club, where you have to check the guns in and out? (Can't have one at your house)? Exception being ranchers that have them for predators and the likes?
3. Who would have thought. A law that makes owning guns essentially illegal and requires you to turn them in, does not stop criminals from having them.

1. He had a knife
2. Do some research, you can have your guns at your house but they need to be locked in an approved cabinet that's bolted to the floor. Ammunition must be stored sperated in another cabinet. Some weapons are kept at random ges/clubs.
3. Gun crime is a problem between gangs, rarely any innocents involved and that was mostly mistaken idenitty.

And the gangs here only shoot each other......we are superior to America in every single way. Look he had to use a car and only managed to kill a few people. If he had an automatic weapon he killed of easily killed many more.

[Super Kami Dende]

Yeah, I never quite realised how crazy Melbourne was until I moved here. Seems theres always something happening somewhere but usually out in the Suburban sticks and with people that the Public generally dislikes so don't care about. So it was odd to see this rampage in the City.

[Noogai131]

And the gangs here only shoot each other......we are superior to America in every single way. Look he had to use a car and only managed to kill a few people. If he had an automatic weapon he killed of easily killed many more.

And how many people in america are killed with AUTOMATIC weapons?

I can tell you the answer, and it's not as many as you think.

[Unhinged]

And how many people in america are killed with AUTOMATIC weapons?

I can tell you the answer, and it's not as many as you think.

Unless it's 0 your argument is pointless.

[Noogai131]

Unless it's 0 your argument is pointless.

Really? There's more than 0 people shot and killed in Australia, guess that means gun control is useless then, huh?

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

2 deaths since 1934 that have been homicides with a LEGALLY owned Automatic firearm. In fact, less than 1% of ALL gun crime in the US can be tied to AUTOMATIC weapons.

Please, stop being silly.

[Unhinged]

Really? There's more than 0 people shot and killed in Australia, guess that means gun control is useless then, huh?

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

2 deaths since 1934 that have been homicides with a LEGALLY owned Automatic firearm. In fact, less than 1% of ALL gun crime in the US can be tied to AUTOMATIC weapons.

Please, stop being silly.

Considering we are talking about automatic weapons your point is useless. Strawman all you want Australian laws are far superior.

Funny how you have to define only legally owned weapons to try and match your argument. We are talking auto weapons not others so you stats are useless.

[Noogai131]

Strawman all you want Australian laws are far superior.

Funny how you have to define only legally owned weapons to try and match your argument. We are talking auto weapons not others so you stats are useless.

You.. You are so dense, I'm wondering if Steven Hawking is going to write another book about you. He's already done one on black holes.

You said that if the number was more than 0, that my point was irrelevant. Yet, for some reason, me saying the same is a strawman? That's not a strawman, you are retarded. Rub your two brain cells together, you might get a spark and fire up those neurons of yours into working.

If you'd read the site I had linked, AUTO-MATIC LEGALLY OWNED WEAPONS made up 2 murders from the period between NINETEEN FREAKING THIRTY FOUR and 2010. On top of that, ILLEGAL AUTO-MATIC WEAPONS made up less than 1% OF ALL GUN CRIME.

Let me re-iterate it for you, so you may understand.

AUTOMATIC WEAPONS MADE UP LESS THAN 1% OF ALL US GUN CRIME

The number of gun deaths in the US, barring suicide because that is currently not relevant to this discussion, is 11,208. This is found from the Wikipedia page found by googling "US gun deaths". This includes justifiable homicides, but we'll assume it's all crime for statistical relevance.

What's 1% of 11,208? 112. ASSUMING that 1% is the ACTUAL amount, and considering the population size of the US is 325,432,593, this is LESS THAN .1%.

Automatic weapons are IRRELEVANT. Your point is irrelevant. Stop talking.

Infracted - Minor flaming

[Murderdoll]

Considering we are talking about automatic weapons your point is useless. Strawman all you want Australian laws are far superior.

Funny how you have to define only legally owned weapons to try and match your argument. We are talking auto weapons not others so you stats are useless.

Its not the laws that are superior.

Thats what people fail to grasp. Even before the laws came into effect. Gun crime wasnt a huge issue. Its not like we woke up one day and holy shit, law changed everythings different.

Theres a different culture here. Guns are still widely available and have been available this whole time. There is a large market for illegal arms here but they are used in a manner that rarely effects innocent bystanders.

The culture around crime is just vastly different, we just traditionally dont use them and its not the law that dictates that, if it was, those people wouldnt be committing crimes.

Comparing America and the US is deadset fucking retarded.

[Unhinged]

You.. You are so dense, I'm wondering if Steven Hawking is going to write another book about you. He's already done one on black holes.

You said that if the number was more than 0, that my point was irrelevant. Yet, for some reason, me saying the same is a strawman? That's not a strawman, you are retarded. Rub your two brain cells together, you might get a spark and fire up those neurons of yours into working.

If you'd read the site I had linked, AUTO-MATIC LEGALLY OWNED WEAPONS made up 2 murders from the period between NINETEEN FREAKING THIRTY FOUR and 2010. On top of that, ILLEGAL AUTO-MATIC WEAPONS made up less than 1% OF ALL GUN CRIME.

Let me re-iterate it for you, so you may understand.

AUTOMATIC WEAPONS MADE UP LESS THAN 1% OF ALL US GUN CRIME

The number of gun deaths in the US, barring suicide because that is currently not relevant to this discussion, is 11,208. This is found from the Wikipedia page found by googling "US gun deaths". This includes justifiable homicides, but we'll assume it's all crime for statistical relevance.

What's 1% of 11,208? 112. ASSUMING that 1% is the ACTUAL amount, and considering the population size of the US is 325,432,593, this is LESS THAN .1%.

Automatic weapons are IRRELEVANT. Your point is irrelevant. Stop talking.

You had to strawman only legal firearms that were used to fit your narrative. Next you use 1% because that sounds really small, you are simply trying to bend numbers to fit your narrative. 112 incidents is one every few days. That is a hell of lot. Your own data shows how terrible the culture is. In no other developed country are shootings of this number a problem and you are worse than most third world hell holes. It's funny looking from the outside in at America.

American laws and culture is broken. You system doesn't work and their is absolutely no evidence to suggest it does. It is laughable that you think you know what you are talking.

Hell you cannot even refute my points and just launch intof a tantrum of nasty words about my intelligence. This says far far more about you and is all we really need to know. You should never be allowed to own a gun.

[Noogai131]

You had to strawman only legal firearms that were used to fit your narrative. Next you use 1% because that sounds really small, you are simply trying to bend numbers to fit your narrative. 112 incidents is one every few days. That is a hell of lot. Your own data shows how terrible the culture is. In no other developed country are shootings of this number a problem and you are worse than most third world hell holes. It's funny looking from the outside in at America.

No. You are using statistics in a way that is irredeemably stupid. 112 incidents in a year is literally nothing. It's a statistical irrelevancy. You're looking at it form an emotional lens and not an intellectual one. These are automatic weapons. Machine guns, not semi-automatic rifles. When you compare 112 incidents to the ten THOUSAND, it's irrelevant.

American laws and culture is broken. You system doesn't work and their is absolutely no evidence to suggest it does. It is laughable that you think you know what you are talking.

I'm Australian, what's your point?

Hell you cannot even refute my points and just launch intof a tantrum of nasty words about my intelligence. This says far far more about you and is all we really need to know. You should never be allowed to own a gun.

Because you are dense. You made points, and I refuted them. What are your points? You haven't made any. You literally just said that if he had an automatic weapon, there'd be more deaths. Sad thing is, automatic weapons count for less than 1% of all deaths in the US, so your point is moot.

[Zephyr Storm]

You had to strawman only legal firearms that were used to fit your narrative. Next you use 1% because that sounds really small, you are simply trying to bend numbers to fit your narrative. 112 incidents is one every few days. That is a hell of lot. Your own data shows how terrible the culture is. In no other developed country are shootings of this number a problem and you are worse than most third world hell holes. It's funny looking from the outside in at America.

American laws and culture is broken. You system doesn't work and their is absolutely no evidence to suggest it does. It is laughable that you think you know what you are talking.

Hell you cannot even refute my points and just launch intof a tantrum of nasty words about my intelligence. This says far far more about you and is all we really need to know. You should never be allowed to own a gun.

Considering legal firearms are the only ones that should be considered based on this discussion you're having, because illegal firearms are just that....illegal. Whether illegally bought, owned, used, etc. You can't count illegal firearms into the discussion you're having with Noogai because those firearms are illegal....no matter how strict or lax the gun laws are or what country we're talking about. Criminals with guns will still have said guns and use them illegally, regardless of the fucking laws in place or what country they live in.

America could ban all guns tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference because criminals would still own and use them illegally. Because it's already illegal for most of them to own them already or use them in the way they intend to use them. So stricter laws won't do dick to stop that. Even Australia still has gun issues, even if they are on a smaller scale than the US, because there's a thing called the black market and people who use said black market to acquire guns in any way they can.

Of course, based on what you've been saying up to this point, I don't expect you to understand any of it. Your head's in the sand on this one.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Considering legal firearms are the only ones that should be considered based on this discussion you're having, because illegal firearms are just that....illegal. Whether illegally bought, owned, used, etc. You can't count illegal firearms into the discussion you're having with Noogai because those firearms are illegal....no matter how strict or lax the gun laws are or what country we're talking about. Criminals with guns will still have said guns and use them illegally, regardless of the fucking laws in place or what country they live in.

Except the firearms used are often legally acquired. And are often illegally acquired. Why remove on subset because it doesn't fit your narrative?

America could ban all guns tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference because criminals would still own and use them illegally. Because it's already illegal for most of them to own them already or use them in the way they intend to use them. So stricter laws won't do dick to stop that. Even Australia still has gun issues, even if they are on a smaller scale than the US, because there's a thing called the black market and people who use said black market to acquire guns in any way they can.

There are a lot of countries where guns are legal, but you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get them. Owning them without going through the proper procedure is highly illegal, and not just some small misdemeanor. In these countries, acquiring a firearm can cost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. In these countries, petty criminals never ever use firearms because it's simply too expensive for them to acquire one. The strict laws make the risk of illegally buying and selling incredibly high. The only people who will own them in these cases are highly organized crime syndicates. Otherwise 99% of crime and criminals won't see their use.

Claiming that laws would be completely ineffective ignores every single example of countries that have successfully almost completely negated gun crime with them. Of course gun crime will never be 100% eliminated. That's one of those weird points that your type makes. The fact that gun crime will still "exist" means we just shouldn't ever do anything to lessen it. It's like... really, if we can't eliminate it completely, we shouldn't try at all to reduce? /boggle

[Mormolyce]

1. Didn't the article say there was a shoot out? For there to be a shoot out, both sides have to be shooting.
2. Don't the guns have to be kept at a Shooting Club, where you have to check the guns in and out? (Can't have one at your house)? Exception being ranchers that have them for predators and the likes?
3. Who would have thought. A law that makes owning guns essentially illegal and requires you to turn them in, does not stop criminals from having them.

1. Article was developing news, all it said was shots were heard. I think it's safe to assume now it was the police firing.
2. You need a license and you have to store it at home in a safe I believe. Might be different for farmers with rifles.
3. No indication this guy had a gun. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since the 90s when we had the ramp up of gun control, and our homicide rate is about a quarter of the US's. Our FIREARM homicide rate is about 1/20th of yours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

It's incredibly easy to get handguns and rifles on the "black market" here in australia. I knew a guy who said for 400 bucks he could get you a pistol and 2 magazines worth of ammo, no questions asked. This is in a decent sized city, I'd hate to know jsut how easy it is in melbourne.

And yet that's not reflected in the actual statistics.

Really? There's more than 0 people shot and killed in Australia, guess that means gun control is useless then, huh?

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

2 deaths since 1934 that have been homicides with a LEGALLY owned Automatic firearm. In fact, less than 1% of ALL gun crime in the US can be tied to AUTOMATIC weapons.

Please, stop being silly.

Well of course, why would you use an automatic weapon when cheap pistols are ubiquitous?

- - - Updated - - -

Its not the laws that are superior.

Thats what people fail to grasp. Even before the laws came into effect. Gun crime wasnt a huge issue. Its not like we woke up one day and holy shit, law changed everythings different.

There is definitely a different culture, that no doubt goes hand in hand with gun proliferation.

But Australia had 13 mass shootings from 1979-1996, then the gun buyback happened and we haven't had one since. I think it's undeniable that the laws were effective at limiting that kind of shooting.

And of course, Australia has never had a Second Amendment.