Valeera Sanguinar - Melee Assassin - Warcraft Hero

[eillas]

Rehgar was thrown together because they needed someone, anyone to give Thrall's initial kit to. He only exists because they made Thrall wrong and required another orc shaman to use the resources that were already developed. Comparing Valeera's importance to Rehgar's is only an argument that Valeera should NOT be in HotS.

I disagree. Valeera is much more recognizable face of rogues.

[Arachnofiend]

I disagree. Valeera is much more recognizable face of rogues.

The face of Rogues is absolutely Garona. Valeera is only the face of blood elf fan wank.

[Ballistic]

I can't believe they introduced hero like Valeera to the game, she is quite broken regarding her damage she reminds you with early nova were she could delete a squishy in split of sec. To icing the cake they add arsenal to her toolkit like stun,silience, blind, dots, armor piercing and slow. Watching videos of her brings me BC/WotLK nightmares where rogues could stun lock you to your death.

This Hero can shut down any idea of solo soaking (early game) or doing camps by yourself, you need a beefy team against her with Tass mandatory if you wanna have chance of winning.

[eillas]

The face of Rogues is absolutely Garona. Valeera is only the face of blood elf fan wank.

For a while, many people who never played the RTS, or really dived in would say garona who? Garona was forgotten about till cata and the comic. Valeera had much more exposure, and thanks to Hearthstone, cemented it.

[Arachnofiend]

For a while, many people who never played the RTS, or really dived in would say garona who? Garona was forgotten about till cata and the comic. Valeera had much more exposure, and thanks to Hearthstone, cemented it.

Garona is largely responsible for Azeroth's narrative as it exists today, if people don't do their research on that that's their problem. Valeera has done nothing to cement herself in Warcraft's canon other than show off her legs and be Varian's arm candy.

[Tenjen]

both are iconic in their own ways and have been exposed the most to the general public. Garona is on her way later on anyways (much later on)

In terms of general exposure to the public however Valeera was the way to go. Even with Garona in the movie, HS exposed Valeera to the rogue association far more. Doesn't matter how things should be or if people did their research. Most of the gaming public have been exposed to Valeera more.

[Nikkaszal]

I can't believe they introduced hero like Valeera to the game, she is quite broken regarding her damage she reminds you with early nova were she could delete a squishy in split of sec. To icing the cake they add arsenal to her toolkit like stun,silience, blind, dots, armor piercing and slow. Watching videos of her brings me BC/WotLK nightmares where rogues could stun lock you to your death.

This Hero can shut down any idea of solo soaking (early game) or doing camps by yourself, you need a beefy team against her with Tass mandatory if you wanna have chance of winning.

Not quite. Valeera's early game is pretty weak, unless she is supported by someone else going in with her. Without talents, her damage output is low.

There's no reason to fear being deleted by Valeera in the early game, because she just doesn't have the gumption to do it yet. If you're in late game though, and you're out on your own... you deserve to be killed.

[Ballistic]

There's no reason to fear being deleted by Valeera in the early game, because she just doesn't have the gumption to do it yet. If you're in late game though, and you're out on your own... you deserve to be killed.

Yea but remember that getting harassed or getting killed multiple times makes your team lose so much potential XP soaking, Plus you have 6 out 12 maps force both teams to split for objectives which makes assassins like Zera, Nova, Tracer, Kerri ..etc. shines in 2vs1 or 1vs1 fights, But Valeera is at different new level of owning. I recon she will wreck hotslogs charts with minimum 60-70% win rates.

[RH92]

The more I played her on PTR, the more I realized she is not that strong as she seems.

She is all about her opener and denying it is not that hard as she has to be in melee range to use any of her stealth abilities (Apart from Ambush talent at 13 and Ambush is probably the worst ability). As Valeera player, you have two options. Either pray they are dumb and won't notice you sneaking on them or go uncloaked and activate Vanish when you are near enemy to abuse unrevealable status which basically means you ate a ton of damage by now.

Also once she screws up her opener, she can't trade damage anymore as her AAs just tickle and she has no sustain. On top of that, her Heroics are not great either.

With that being said, I think she will have high winrate because people can't play against stealth characters.

[Ballistic]

The more I played her on PTR, the more I realized she is not that strong as she seems.

She is all about her opener and denying it is not that hard as she has to be in melee range to use any of her stealth abilities (Apart from Ambush talent at 13 and Ambush is probably the worst ability). As Valeera player, you have two options. Either pray they are dumb and won't notice you sneaking on them or go uncloaked and activate Vanish when you are near enemy to abuse unrevealable status which basically means you ate a ton of damage by now.

Also once she screws up her opener, she can't trade damage anymore as her AAs just tickle and she has no sustain. On top of that, her Heroics are not great either.

With that being said, I think she will have high winrate because people can't play against stealth characters.

Every match has Tass in enemy team that is why it miss up with everyone trying Valeera. Also ambush build is good if you are going with crippling poison lvl 1, works well in some maps that for teams to split.

[RH92]

Every match has Tass in enemy team that is why it miss up with everyone trying Valeera. Also ambush build is good if you are going with crippling poison lvl 1, works well in some maps that for teams to split.

You definitely don't need Tassadar to spot her or any cloaked Hero.

Dunno about Ambush build, Ambush has it's uses, but it is considered the worst stealth ability since it has no utility outside of raw instant damage.

[Stormcall]

You definitely don't need Tassadar to spot her or any cloaked Hero.

You do if you play on the low graphics settings. There is literally no shimmer displayed. For the longest time I wondered what people were talking about when they said "just look for the shimmer" until I finally saw the game played on a better PC than mine.

[RH92]

You do if you play on the low graphics settings. There is literally no shimmer displayed. For the longest time I wondered what people were talking about when they said "just look for the shimmer" until I finally saw the game played on a better PC than mine.

I know about this, but I dare to say that even in this case playing Tassadar doesn't help you as there is quite a chance to miss a reveal if you can't see the shimmer.

If you want a good counter, I think Kharazim does really good with his Air Ally talent. People say it is crap in comparison to other Ally talents, but two charges of 40 sec reveal with just 20 sec cooldown is insanely good against stealth Heroes. Unlike Oracle, you can just passively drop it and dance inside it to get value out of it. Sure it can be destroyed, but with smart placement, it shouldn't be a big issue. Kharazim is also good at dealing with stealth Heroes because he can harras them really well with Iron Fists (He still does really good healing, you don't need Transcendence to keep up with Rehgar numbers for example) while being pretty safe thanks to his Dash.

[Ballistic]

You definitely don't need Tassadar to spot her or any cloaked Hero.

Dunno about Ambush build, Ambush has it's uses, but it is considered the worst stealth ability since it has no utility outside of raw instant damage.

Tass area reveal mess you up if Tass know you are gonna open on him or someone else, you get hit once and your openers won't be available. Anyway I consider Tass is the lesser problem, Malf/Morales scouting drones stays for ages if you place it in strategic position.

[RH92]

Tass area reveal mess you up if Tass know you are gonna open on him or someone else, you get hit once and your openers won't be available. Anyway I consider Tass is the lesser problem, Malf/Morales scouting drones stays for ages if you place it in strategic position.

They changed how reveal work two patches ago, it doesn't knock you out of stealth anymore. It just makes you targetable for the duration.

That's why I think Valeera will be entering stealth only when scouting and just before opening on someone to abuse to that unrevealable status.

[Ballistic]

I don't know why everyone takes Subtlety at level 1, It looks nice on paper and early game but Vigor looks better mid and end game. Vigor gives me more freedom to use abilities multiple times especially if I'm attacking tank or target getting healed and I wanna outdps it.

Anyway I think Valeera is very versatile hero depending on enemy comp and your openers designed based on target you are going to attack:

Heavy Melee: Subtlety/Vigor> Initiative> Slice and Dice> Blind> Expose Armor>Nightslayer/Cold Blood
Heavy Spell Casters: Subtlety/Vigor> Hemorrhage> Slice and Dice> Strangle> Seal Fate/Rupture/Expose Armor> Nightslayer
Ambush Poke Build for split objective maps: Subtlety> Initiative> Assassinate> Death From Above> Expose Armor> Cold Blood

These are gonna be my builds I tried on PTR and I will use on Live.

[Ryme]

As the guy who did a lot of the wow rogue theorycrafting back in WoD, just at a glance subtlety is quite ahead in terms of burst potential which is what you're about, it's actually nuts how strong that talent is for a level 1. Vigor is better for long sustain, too long, the passive needs a buff to 3 for it to compete imo.

Perhaps on BoE you'd want Vigor, I'm not sure though.

DISCLAIMER: This is not even napkin maths, I need more data really but still in the process of moving house and can't check PTR. If someone could tell me the following it would be a great help:

• Untalented energy regen
• Energy cost of ambush, garrote, eviscerate and cheap shot
• Attack speed
• Damage of abilities and AA at level 1 and 2

Bit of an ask, I appreciate lol

[RH92]

DISCLAIMER: This is not even napkin maths, I need more data really but still in the process of moving house and can't check PTR. If someone could tell me the following it would be a great help:

• Untalented energy regen
• Energy cost of ambush, garrote, eviscerate and cheap shot
• Attack speed
• Damage of abilities and AA at level 1 and 2

Energy regen: 10 energy per second
Ambush: 20 energy, 195 damage
Garrote: 30 energy, 78 damage + 182 damage over 7 seconds
Cheap Shot: 30 energy, 31 damage
Eviscerate: 25 energy, 104/208/312 damage
Blade Flurry: 40 energy, 135 damage
Sinister Strike: 30 energy, 114 damage
Auto Attack: 2 attacks per second, 78 damage
Subtlety talent: After spending at least 4 seconds in stealth, energy regen is increased to 20 per second for 5 seconds after leaving stealth.
Vigor talent: 12 energy regen at all times, energy is increased to 120 when you collect 20 regeneration globes

[Ryme]

Huge thanks @RH92!

[Stormcall]

I know about this, but I dare to say that even in this case playing Tassadar doesn't help you as there is quite a chance to miss a reveal if you can't see the shimmer.

You dare wrong. Being able to see the hero is not an issue even on the lowest settings, it's only when stealthed it becomes an issue. Stealthed heroes are plain as sunlight when revealed, even on the lowest settings.