Should being fat result in having to pay more taxes?

[Spectral]

Places that sell prepared food anywhere where I can get to.

I'm not expecting anyone to help me - my situation has no solution.

I'm just using myself as an example to explain that there is complexity in the problem, and ignoring it won't help solve it.

OK. That's fair.

Nonetheless, most fat people don't have complicated disorders, just the natural inclination to eat too much tasty food, insufficient judgment and impulse control to not eat too much, and a nation that provides food so unbelievably cheaply that the chief ailments of the poor are caused by eating too much.

[Fojos]

Some of them are, some of them aren't... it is a complex issue.

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A common misconception, most fat and obese people eat very little - the quality is the issue, not the quantity.

No. It's the quantity. Most very thin "nerds" you see have a tendence to eat junk. You become fat from calories, not lack of nutrients.

Most who eat healthy today also tend to be a bit too heavy, because they eat too much.

How many do you see actually following the "fist"-guideline?

[schwarzkopf]

OK. That's fair.

Nonetheless, most fat people don't have complicated disorder

I pretty much only know two other people, and one eats a lot, has eaten a lot and has very high cholesterol and is as skinny as a rake.
The other is forced for medical reasons to take in higher calories than he can expend he has zero ability to physically exercise.

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No. It's the quantity.

You would be incorrect.

[Dadwen]

something I noticed in these type of threads (just a side thought) are the same people that are saying just eat less and not be fat it's all their fault and should pay more are the same people that with pregnant woman saying just don't have sex it's there choice and if you do it's your fault and you and the father to take care of it $$ wise abortion\birth etc and should they pay more taxes if they strain the system? both seem a choice?

just a random thought reading this tread.

[Spectral]

No. It's the quantity. Most very thin "nerds" you see have a tendence to eat junk. You become fat from calories, not lack of nutrients.

This really is pretty obvious. While humans aren't bomb calorimeters that are perfectly calibrated to use/dispose all calories, it's pretty obvious that you can't add fat or muscle mass without consuming a caloric surplus. It's just literally impossible to build mass without energy.

[TriHard]

OP obviously loves posting shitty threads like these
http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=41598976

[schwarzkopf]

Just wondering what's the justification for that as some posts seem to point towards quality of meals as being sufficient in of itself in producing obesity.

The primary (by far) effect on obesity is your metabolism. That's pretty much genes and age ( can be slightly adjusted with muscle building).
Second to that is the intact of well - SUGAR, and carbs to a lesser extent.

So - you may find some poor sod eating KFC fatty chickens with a high metabolism being skinny as a rake, but ready to have a heart attack.
Another person might eat a few maccas and an apple pie, and a health meal at night and have a slow metabolism - and be the size of a whale.

Seriously - if anyone thinks 500g of jelly beans will cause less weight gain than 4kg of vegies, they have a screw loose

[Dequanacus]

You would be incorrect.

I know many people that do not have much in the way of disposable income, eat mostly from places that sell already prepared food, and are not obese. I feel it goes beyond simply eating unhealthy food.

[schwarzkopf]

I know many people that do not have much in the way of disposable income, eat mostly from places that sell already prepared food, and are not obese. I feel it goes beyond simply eating unhealthy food.

See above - metabolism and also the type of unhealthy food (fat vs carb).

[Fojos]

I pretty much only know two other people, and one eats a lot, has eaten a lot and has very high cholesterol and is as skinny as a rake.
The other is forced for medical reasons to take in higher calories than he can expend he has zero ability to physically exercise.

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You would be incorrect.

Except everything you see points to this. Yes, metabolism can vary, but it's still about energy-intake, not quality.

[Dequanacus]

So - you may find some poor sod eating KFC fatty chickens with a high metabolism being skinny as a rake, but ready to have a heart attack.

These people are by no means skinny and most were obese in the past if not jumping between being obese and fit. Their living conditions have not changed within that time period. Most started working out more or making an effort to snack less on the side.

[schwarzkopf]

Yes, metabolism can vary, but it's still about energy-intake, not quality.

Energy intake is about quality, along with various other things.

Seems like we've been agreeing without knowing it.

[Mistame]

Actually - it most often is BOTH the fault and problem of someone else.

No, it's not.

GFC wasn't caused by the millions of people whose finances it destroyed, it was caused by wall street criminals.

The poor don't do Wall Street.

Being a human being and giving up a bit of your freedom of choice, and giving another human being a tiny bit of that freedom - would be a nice thing to do.

Sure it would be nice. But that's a choice I get to make and I prefer to keep it that way. It would also be nice if everyone had a new car and a nice home, but I'm not paying for those, either.

[Fojos]

Energy intake is about quality, along with various other things.

Seems like we've been agreeing without knowing it.

It's still not about quality. Coca cola doesn't even have twice the energy of spinach, but the quality of spinach is infinitely higher.

Many nuts are high quality with nutrients you might need, but they still have more than ten times the energy of coca cola.

That's why you can see many thin people eat a McDonalds meal per day and drink a lot of cola, because they don't eat anything else. This might add up to 1600-1800 kcal.

Most of these "thin with high metabolism" in reality don't have any metabolism out of the ordinary, you see them eat shit every time, but usually they don't eat more later, or even before.

[Granyala]

it really doesn't take much time or effort to be more fit than 95% of the population

I call bull on that one. I witnessed the transformation of my friend first hand and while I certainly admire him, it took a ton of effort, including a change in diet I could not follow.

[Cyberowl]

I call bull on that one. I witnessed the transformation of my friend first hand and while I certainly admire him, it took a ton of effort, including a change in diet I could not follow.

Well, you don't need to aim for 95% of the population. Jogging 2 hours a week and the slightest changes in diet probably put you above 80% of the population in the western world. :P

I went from doing no sports and kinda caring about my diet to 10 hours sport/week with about the same diet in 3 months. The hardest part is literally getting started.

[Granyala]

It is also - sadly, why I fall victim to trolls and don't stop arguing ... because, well - I sort of don't have a choice until a stronger trigger comes along. Frequently a mod

In that case: Banhammer = boot in the bum.

[Spectral]

Well - I wouldn't say I'm getting through life ... I'm more on hold waiting for the end. If you look up Alexithymia on wikipedia you will see that I'm predisposed to this already ("a stimulus-bound, externally oriented cognitive style.") , however it was manageable until the anxiety took it over the top.

It is also - sadly, why I fall victim to trolls and don't stop arguing ... because, well - I sort of don't have a choice until a stronger trigger comes along. Frequently a mod

Is there anything any of us can do to help if you're kinda stuck in a repetitive argument? I mean, for my part I can just stop, which seems like a nice thing to do, but what about more broadly?

[Krastyn]

I'm not concerned about your weight, nor your health. Those should be your concern. You can demand that I know exactly how many calories a stranger burns, but you are trying to bait me into an idiotic discussion. Every person is slightly different. If you want to know the statistical averages for someone of your size, then there are numerous tables you can look up on the internet. The entire discussion started when people swore they couldn't lose weight, or even eat more healthily. What it really boils down to, is personal choices. People choose to be fat, people choose to be unhealthy.

What this started from was ignorant people saying "Just eat less than you burn" and everything will be fine. That's like telling a poor person "Just spend less than you earn and you won't be poor". There's a lot more to it than that. But you, like many others, like to glaze over the details to just make sweeping statements.

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I explicitly used the medical adjective "obese". There are very few people that are obese by BMI that have healthy long-run prognoses. When defined by body fat (which is mostly consistent with BMI when looking at obesity, but includes more people that are overfat and excludes the relatively rare muscle-heavy males) this becomes an even more clear picture - excessive fat has negative consequences for cardiovascular health and fitness, mobility, and other basic functions.

By BMI standards, a lot of athletes are overweight, and bordering on obese. I grew up playing contact sports (hockey, lacrosse, and football). The only way for me to get to a "normal" weight is to drop 90 pounds. I've been to through full fitness evaluations, had body compositions, VO2 max, the works. Guess what? I don't have 90 lbs of fat on me to lose. This is why I dislike blanket statements of "just eat less than you burn", because it's wrong, and can actually be unhealthy.

As far as costs to the health care system, so far I have none of the typical negative medical consequences. From playing sports however, I have been to the hospital / medicenter at least 7 times, and through physiotherapy three times. Those injuries are typical ones people get from playing contact sports (torn ACL, separated shoulder, sprained back). Should I have to pay extra because I chose to play sports?

[Spectral]

By BMI standards, a lot of athletes are overweight, and bordering on obese. I grew up playing contact sports (hockey, lacrosse, and football). The only way for me to get to a "normal" weight is to drop 90 pounds. I've been to through full fitness evaluations, had body compositions, VO2 max, the works. Guess what? I don't have 90 lbs of fat on me to lose. This is why I dislike blanket statements of "just eat less than you burn", because it's wrong, and can actually be unhealthy.

Read the post that you responded to back and again and see if it seems like I addressed this or not.

As far as costs to the health care system, so far I have none of the typical negative medical consequences. From playing sports however, I have been to the hospital / medicenter at least 7 times, and through physiotherapy three times. Those injuries are typical ones people get from playing contact sports (torn ACL, separated shoulder, sprained back). Should I have to pay extra because I chose to play sports?

I'm not one of the people suggesting that anyone pay extra anything for their personal habits. My first post in the thread was:

No. No one owes the state good health. Claiming otherwise is an absurd violation of personal freedom.