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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    He says, demonstrating that he's being obtuse. "The system won't be perfect so I can't be implemented" is an asinine position to hold.
    Well - you are a firm believe in the system, yet you can't do anything as simple as even specifying what the system is.

    To me that sounds like you like to complain, but aren't actually interested in a solution.

    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - you are a firm believe in the system, yet you can't do anything as simple as even specifying what the system is.

    To me that sounds like you like to complain, but aren't actually interested in a solution.

    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.
    i like the sound of this idea tbh, to the rest of you crying "oh it must be cos youre bad" get a grip ive joined groups on my own (not my key) and a healer has left after the 1st pack cos he cant keep the tank up, you think thats fair?

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Imo, there is another possibility. But this one might not be popular, it might solve some issues with the mythic + system though.

    Add lockouts for each mythic +. Meaning, if you did a mythic maw of souls +5 you cannot do any more mythic maw of souls +5 for loot. This means you can still do a maw of souls +4 or a halls of valor +5 that week however.

    What would it solve? Leaving will mean you are locked for that week, on top of that it could make any key that is not neltharion's lair or maw of souls more worthwhile. It would also remove some of the pressure of people to farm mythics just for AP. The downside is that it would limit the options of things you can do and that it would remove the highly worthwhile AP farms in NL & maw.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post

    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.
    Well, 5 minutes may be ok for Halls of Valor but it seems quite a punishment for Maw of Souls. Perhaps 7% ot the total dungeon time would be more reasonable?

  5. #25
    Had a tank leave my 8 DHT because a dps was telling him he was pulling incorrectly..... I was pissed.

  6. #26
    The most spectacular leaver was in BRH 10 a couple of months back. The leader took his time setting up the "perfect" group to make sure nothing went wrong. He made it clear again and again that he wanted to check that everyone understood his rules for the group (can't remember what they were).
    He marks the tank and we proceed with our invis potions, 3 of us follow the tank one way but the group leader goes the other way and dies, the potion incurs a 10 minute penalty and we now need to get back to the start to clear the trash we've just skipped, an argument breaks out and the Tank leaves... before we'd engaged a single mob.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.
    And thats not going to be abused.
    5 good geared people clear a m+ up to the last boss, one leave and they bring in a buyer.
    Easy way to boost people.

  8. #28
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.
    I assume the dungeontimer would reset with this solution, or else ur go to last boss, kick the pug and invite an buyer.
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  9. #29
    If this happens "way to often for my liking" - odds are the common denominator is you. You're the reason people are leaving.

    I've run ~800 mythics across 3 toons and this whole expansion have had people leave only four times. 800 runs and only four times people have rage quit and left.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    I assume the dungeontimer would reset with this solution, or else ur go to last boss, kick the pug and invite an buyer.
    No - you would lose 5 minutes (or say 7% as suggested above) off the timer. If you didn't - then the system would be abused to bring in optimal players for separate parts of the run.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptenpewpew View Post
    And thats not going to be abused.
    5 good geared people clear a m+ up to the last boss, one leave and they bring in a buyer.
    Easy way to boost people.
    The time penalty will remove chests, and the 'abuse' you refer to happens in raids as well ... the core reward of M+ runs is the timer.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  11. #31
    The Patient tehTyrant's Avatar
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    There should be a light penalty of a couple hours or at least one hour maybe even 30 mins for leaving. Can't be too harsh because sometimes groups are bad or toxic and you just need to leave.
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  12. #32
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Need to define the problem first. If your group is shit with no chance of making the timer and people are dying every pull then maybe I leave for that reason. And maybe it's the only time I've left in the last 100 runs.

    Or maybe someone's a dick and leaves a lot.

    The problem we should want to solve is, I think this:

    Someone who for whatever reason, leaves a lot of they're own volition (which I take to mean not only them leaving the game but having a highly unstable network that DCs a lot).

    The solution I'd use would something like this - first leave, little or no penalty. Maybe 30 mins. Second leave, longer... perhaps 2 hours. Third leave, longer - 6-12 hours, 4th leave a day.

    Age these so that the impact of leaving fades over time. If I leave 4x in a week, I get the penalties above. If I leave 4x over the course of a year, they;'re all counted as a first leaving, the others having faded.

  13. #33
    I was in a group for HoV +6 or something and the trash to first boss went smooth and the first boss melted. As soon as he died, one of the dps just left the group completely. No dc, no word, just bounced.

    On the flip side, I was in an Arcway +5, I was not lead, and the tank had clearly never been to Arcway. He made a few mistakes that cost us the 3 chest, last chance to make 2 was to kill the final boss with no deaths. Well, that didn't happen. We wiped so many times simply from people not following mechanics and running into bad shit. The timer was at an hour when I finally told them I had had enough, so I left.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    He says, demonstrating that he's being obtuse. "The system won't be perfect so I can't be implemented" is an asinine position to hold.
    Its schwarzkopf, his default position is asinine. When he says hes written software for 30 hes probably spent 29.5 of them telling people it can't be done and the other 0.5 quabbling over "definitions". The system could be improved to protect people, theres little doubt of that. It won't be perfect and thats what Mr pedant wants it seems.

  15. #35
    If people are behaving in a manner you don't like, don't group with them in the future.

    Problem solved.

    People always complain how the community's going downhill, and Blizzard's to blame for it, blahblahblah...

    If you're looking for Blizzard to somehow bandaid your lack of responsibility for you choosing NOT to interact with the people YOU are choosing to group with, that's your fault, not Blizzard's.

    Hey Blizzard, I was in a crossrealm raid the other day and the rest of the raid was awful and we wiped over and over again. Please apply stacks of determination so that crossrealm pugs are up to my calibre, thanks.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    I wish there was something that could be done about this, but I don't know that there's a fair solution. I was running an HoV 7 yesterday and on the way to the second boss, a dps just dropped group and left without saying anything. It wasn't their key and there was no punishment for them, so they just left. I felt bad for the person who used their key. I offered to stick around and find another group on my key with them, but they weren't attuned (I had an Arcway key).

  17. #37
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Need to define the problem first. If your group is shit with no chance of making the timer and people are dying every pull then maybe I leave for that reason. And maybe it's the only time I've left in the last 100 runs.

    Or maybe someone's a dick and leaves a lot.

    The problem we should want to solve is, I think this:

    Someone who for whatever reason, leaves a lot of they're own volition (which I take to mean not only them leaving the game but having a highly unstable network that DCs a lot).

    The solution I'd use would something like this - first leave, little or no penalty. Maybe 30 mins. Second leave, longer... perhaps 2 hours. Third leave, longer - 6-12 hours, 4th leave a day.

    Age these so that the impact of leaving fades over time. If I leave 4x in a week, I get the penalties above. If I leave 4x over the course of a year, they;'re all counted as a first leaving, the others having faded.
    That solution would significantly and unnecessarily punish people who have poor connections. It is too broad to be effective for the sheer range of players that the system must accommodate, and it still would allow calculated abuse of the system.

    Honestly the best solutions I've seen so far is schwarzkopf's, it addresses the key problem of losing a player (for whatever reason) while having a buffer in place to prevent abuse. It is a significant improvement from simply having your run entirely ruined by 1 player.



    For the people who bring up boosting; Boosting people is an entirely different issue, and it isn't ever going to stop unless Blizzard makes policy changes or massive systemic changes to the game.
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  18. #38
    Man it's been at least 3 days since we had one of these threads.

    They've already said they're not going to put a penalty system on M+. Stop making these stupid threads.

    This happens to me way too often
    Well it's easy to see where the problem lies.
    Last edited by Kazuchika; 2017-01-22 at 04:54 AM.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    For a week? Hahahahaahaha.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - you are a firm believe in the system, yet you can't do anything as simple as even specifying what the system is.

    To me that sounds like you like to complain, but aren't actually interested in a solution.

    I've already provided my solution: "Allow a group to spend 5 minutes off the timer to suspend the timer and invite additional players to complete the run". Easy to implement, very specific and no automated penalty system to cause havoc.
    I feel like that would lead to abuse.

    You could just kick someone and replace said person with a better person later. Could open up a window for trolling too. So unless you can specify the exact conditions that would allow you to freeze the timer then I can't see it working.

    Either way I don't think the problem is that huge. It'll happen every now and then but it's not large enough to warrant the risk of an imperfect system.

    If it's happening to you a lot than run with guildies or friends. I do that all the time to alleviate leavers.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2017-01-22 at 05:02 AM.

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