Nazis were right wing, not left

[Pannonian]

You could have just simplified this thread by saying

"People who I dont agree with are right wing"

This crap is just getting sad at this point.

Why should i do this? That doesn't make any sense - There are a lot of people i disagree with on the left side and a lot of people i agree with on the right side.

I consider myself as a liberal left, meaning i don't like the state meddling too much, but provide basic securities and leave the citizens alone to do their thing. Yes i'm a leftie, and i have no problem saying that communism as it was implemented is one of the worst chapters in human history on par with facism. It doesn't hurt me, as i'm deeply opposed to all this authoritarian bullshit.

So... i dont get your post, is there any real content or did you just want to belittle me?

On topic:

On problem we obviously have is definitions. I agree with the fact that these changes - of course they do; but thats why it is so important to use the definitions of the time. If i go around and use the latest or any modern standards on history i can produce wonderful things as:

Ilius Gaius Caesar was a genocidial war criminal.
Charlemange was a pedophile genocidial dictator.

Both 100% fit on the current consensus, but it doesn't get me anywhere if i play it like that...

[RobertMugabe]

I'm pretty sure the few posting are rom Germany/Scandinavia (at least) and knows their history far better than you. (I'm guessing you're American that refused to learn anything from history, which puts you firmly in the right-wing since they are re-writing history so it's more in accord to their beliefs, regardless of the truth)

And yes, the graphic is near-accurate.

I am Austrian (with a degree) and left wing and basically your whole post and your previous ones are bullshit. Read a book. Have a nice day.

You just can put Communism besides Anarchism in a graphic, both are almost in any way a contradiction

[Shadowferal]

Both anti-fascism and anti-communism have utterly lost their meaning since Hitler and Stalin have ceased to conceal their alliance from the world. […] I predicted the cooperation between the Nazis and Bolsheviks as early as 1925 in my article "Anti-Marxism."
~~Ludwig von Mises 1940

[Tomyris]

Nice to see how we can have a civilized discussion ^^

I swear the next topic on the "forbidden" list will be politics.

It is however an interesting question and it does puzzle more people and journalists. So I am reading this now

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Nazis-...t-wing-parties

Very interesting. Thank you.

[Shadowferal]

I am Austrian (with a degree) and left wing and basically your whole post and your previous ones are bullshit. Read a book. Have a nice day.

I'm sure you want me to believe that.

[Shiandra]

---

Actually,a lot of this makes sense to me and interestingly enough,my grandmother says that in a lot of ways Trump reminded her of how Hitler rose to power. Not saying he is out of his mind, which Hitler did lose later, but she said (and I agree) there is mirroring of that now. Despite all the bad, Hitler did some good things too and those get ignored, but I find myself worried over the cost my country will reap from our new president.

Thank you for this, too many people will ignore this or dismiss it or belittle it, but you gave me food for thought.

[RobertMugabe]

I'm sure you want me to believe that.

Believe what you want. I don't expect anything from you anyways, when you have 0 knowledge about political systems. Srsly, read a book

[Cosmic Janitor]

I swear the next topic on the "forbidden" list will be politics.

I actually hope so. We have like 10 threads because trump on the front page. All of the interesting topics get completely drowned because of that :/.

[Trumpcat]

The problem with political science, unlike most other sciences, is that everyone can talk about it. So it's been a common topic to fight over in bars in the past, nowadays it's mostly on the internet. It's worse today, however, because folks around would read a couple of articles on Wikipedia and they have figured it all, you can't touch them and their beliefs.

It is quite amusing reading through the past three pages, especially the original post and see things like race, religion and nationality being put in the same category.

But what I specifically scanned for, through the posts of remarkable political analysis, and did not find, was the relation between the treaties the first world war ended with and the rise of National Socialism or Fascism in Europe. And I'm not a genius who discovered it, I thought I'd drop it because it is essential factor without which you can't have the discussion*. Not that I volunteer to offer political and historical insight or delude myself thinking that the political experts here will take my mockery post seriously, I just found it very funny.

*In a remotely competent way.

[schwarzkopf]

I just lost a couple of brain cells by reading this.

Indeed - too many people confuse 'how' with 'what'.

In truth - left is 'society', right is 'individual', bottom is 'anarchy' top is 'authoritarian'.

Australia is centre right, yet is strongly socialist.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually hope so. We have like 10 threads because trump on the front page. All of the interesting topics get completely drowned because of that :/.

The problem is that many Trump supporters see politics, where none exists.

Climate change, evolution, equal rights, health care etc - aren't politics.

Politics is about HOW you do something, common sense and logic tells you what to do.

[Puupi]

I just lost a couple of brain cells by reading this.

It's just unbelievable how many of you have no idea what these words even mean, no wonder Trump has won the elections and the world is fucked up overall. (or some are just trolling and I am too dumb to notice it, then move on)

This thread isn't about America. It's about nazis and nazis were European. In Europe, left wing = socialism, right wing = capitalism. You can shove trump and your democratrepublicanliberalconservative nonsense elsewhere.

[Pannonian]

Actually,a lot of this makes sense to me and interestingly enough,my grandmother says that in a lot of ways Trump reminded her of how Hitler rose to power. Not saying he is out of his mind, which Hitler did lose later, but she said (and I agree) there is mirroring of that now. Despite all the bad, Hitler did some good things too and those get ignored, but I find myself worried over the cost my country will reap from our new president.

Thank you for this, too many people will ignore this or dismiss it or belittle it, but you gave me food for thought.

I think one of the biggest similarities, as this discussion shows, is how hard it is to pinpoint populist campaigns into the political spectrum. Nazis as right wing was originally because nationalist parties sat on the right side of the Reichstag. But only with the national ideology the Nazis couldn't have won. The gained a lot of socialist votes by integrating socialist topics. Does that make it a left party? Hard to say, but at the same time i have a really hard time to find out what really is the motivation behind the new US president. He said so many things to different crowds that its hard for me to get a grasp of the man, but thats the problem with populism.
@det:

Very interesting article, and its really hard to point to where exactly we stand, and i'm even inclined to say they weren't right wing, but - and this is the important part - the aren't left wing. Reason for me pointing this out: Nazis are extreme left is often used in my country to create a connection between socialist and Nazis (which is to a small extent true for austria (who took in a lot of nazis after the war) but its just stupid if its used by the right wing party in austria (who was founded exclusively by Nazi members))

The conclusion of your article probably describe my own feelings on the matter best:

"He was socially so much right, the rest doesn't matter: He was an extreme right"

[Xarkan]

Why did Hitler send socialists to concentration camps if he was a lefty himself?

They were right-wing.

Why did Stalin throw so many communists in Gulags and supposedly arrange murder of so many of them?

Not that Hitler was a lefty but the argument does not seem sound

[Shadowferal]

I think one of the biggest similarities, as this discussion shows, is how hard it is to pinpoint populist campaigns into the political spectrum. Nazis as right wing was originally because nationalist parties sat on the right side of the Reichstag. But only with the national ideology the Nazis couldn't have won. The gained a lot of socialist votes by integrating socialist topics. Does that make it a left party? Hard to say, but at the same time i have a really hard time to find out what really is the motivation behind the new US president. He said so many things to different crowds that its hard for me to get a grasp of the man, but thats the problem with populism.
@det:

Very interesting article, and its really hard to point to where exactly we stand, and i'm even inclined to say they weren't right wing, but - and this is the important part - the aren't left wing. Reason for me pointing this out: Nazis are extreme left is often used in my country to create a connection between socialist and Nazis (which is to a small extent true for austria (who took in a lot of nazis after the war) but its just stupid if its used by the right wing party in austria (who was founded exclusively by Nazi members))

The conclusion of your article probably describe my own feelings on the matter best:

"He was socially so much right, the rest doesn't matter: He was an extreme right"

Yeah...there was a lot of "socialism" in his "nationalism," it's easy to see why it can become confusing.

However I suppose it's more about where totalitarianism is one end of the scale, and the other would be no government at all.

[Karrotlord]

This thread isn't about America. It's about nazis and nazis were European. In Europe, left wing = socialism, right wing = capitalism. You can shove trump and your democratrepublicanliberalconservative nonsense elsewhere.

And the Nazis hunted down and exterminated socialists.

[Shadowferal]

Why did Stalin throw so many communists in Gulags and supposedly arrange murder of so many of them?

Not that Hitler was a lefty but the argument does not seem sound

Because he was a paranoid fuck that killed more of his own than Hitler killed in the Holocaust. Especially after WWII.

[Orbitus]

This thread isn't about America. It's about nazis and nazis were European. In Europe, left wing = socialism, right wing = capitalism. You can shove trump and your democratrepublicanliberalconservative nonsense elsewhere.

And even then you are wrong.

[Pannonian]

But what I specifically scanned for, through the posts of remarkable political analysis, and did not find, was the relation between the treaties the first world war ended with and the rise of National Socialism or Fascism in Europe. And I'm not a genius who discovered it, I thought I'd drop it because it is essential factor without which you can't have the discussion*. Not that I volunteer to offer political and historical insight or delude myself thinking that the political experts here will take my mockery post seriously, I just found it very funny.

*In a remotely competent way.

I'm intrigued. The treaty of Versailles was evidently a big reason for the rise of national socialism in Germany. Funny enough though, when the Nazis eventually rose to power nearly all of the hurting clauses were already nullified by the democratic german government (in 1926 german and french foreign ministers got the peace nobel prize for this). It doesn't work for italy though, where facism first rose, as they were one of the winners of WW1.

So, i don't really get what you mean - care to elaborate?

[Darkeon]

The problem is that many Trump supporters see politics, where none exists.

Climate change, evolution, equal rights, health care etc - aren't politics.

Politics is about HOW you do something, common sense and logic tells you what to do.

"I'm better than you!"
*imagine Ana Kasparian meme video*

[Xarkan]

Because he was a paranoid fuck that killed more of his own than Hitler killed in the Holocaust. Especially after WWII.

The point was more that killing socialists or communists does not a right winger make (nor is it particularly a forreign country for some right wingers)