ADHD & Why It’s a “Fictitious” Disorder

[Themius]

My suspicion is that in cultures where witch-doctors are common, professional witch-doctors tend to find that they have answers for pretty much everything and that pretty much everyone needs their help.

Of course, psychologists are nothing like witch-doctors. Psychologists play dress up in serious doctor clothes and have journals and everything, so we know they're basically legit.

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Here's a good summary.

This is probably somewhat more charitable to American psychology than I'm likely to be.

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Yeah, I mean what's a few billion dollars spent to sedate perfectly healthy children? That seems fine, why should anyone care?

Uh huh... so you're one of those people who believes psychology just isn't so legit? Should I not trust my brain scans either? I mean I can't read them they proably colluded with the witch doctors right?

[Spectral]

Uh huh... so you're one of those people who believes psychology just isn't so legit? Should I not trust my brain scans either? I mean I can't read them they proably colluded with the witch doctors right?

I think cognitive psychology and neuropsychology are pretty legit.

I also think the field as a whole has huge problems and that much of what's dressed up in scientific language isn't scientific at all. I think our current standards for diagnosing and prescribing drugs are pretty terrible and are going to look about as good a century from now as medicine from a century ago looks now. I don't think psychologists are frauds, I think they're doing their level best with a bunch of poorly understood systems. Treatments just aren't anywhere near as effective when looking at meta-analysis as anyone paying attention would like them to be.

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The fact that wayyyy more boys than girls are diagnosed with this "disorder" in classrooms doesn't exactly helps its case either.

Be that as it may, I was prescribed it 4 years ago and haven't looked back. I'm far more productive now than i've ever been.

Right, it's certainly possible that there's a legitimately massive difference in rate of occurrence (male/female biological differences are quite real), but the culture-specificity of the diagnoses here sure looks an awful lot like just drugging boys into being docile because it's more convenient for teachers and parents.

[Total Crica]

Uh huh... so you're one of those people who believes psychology just isn't so legit? Should I not trust my brain scans either? I mean I can't read them they probably colluded with the witch doctors right?

No, you should never fully trust anything you don't have first hand access to, such as the making of those machines you are scanning your brain with, etc.

Take it all with a grain of salt and hope everyone is not lying or deceiving you manipulating you.

[HumbleDuck]

You can regulate private healthcare. You can't ensure those regulations are followed because humans are doing the regulating.

Ensuring that the regulations are followed is the very reason justice systems had been found.
The alternative would be moving back to tribal era, but we are getting off topic now.

[THE Bigzoman]

says right there that they recieve payments in order to encourage them to prescribe certain drugs.

No it doesn't. It says that doctors that receive perks from the medical industry are more likely to prescribe brand name drugs than those that don't.

[starlord]

Right, it's certainly possible that there's a legitimately massive difference in rate of occurrence (male/female biological differences are quite real), but the culture-specificity of the diagnoses here sure looks an awful lot like just drugging boys into being docile because it's more convenient for teachers and parents.

it could be due to a difference in learning styles. maybe its voodoo to you, but some people do far better when actively engaged in what they are learning.

[Themius]

I think cognitive psychology and neuropsychology are pretty legit.

I also think the field as a whole has huge problems and that much of what's dressed up in scientific language isn't scientific at all. I think our current standards for diagnosing and prescribing drugs are pretty terrible and are going to look about as good a century from now as medicine from a century ago looks now. I don't think psychologists are frauds, I think they're doing their level best with a bunch of poorly understood systems. Treatments just aren't anywhere near as effective when looking at meta-analysis as anyone paying attention would like them to be.

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Right, it's certainly possible that there's a legitimately massive difference in rate of occurrence (male/female biological differences are quite real), but the culture-specificity of the diagnoses here sure looks an awful lot like just drugging boys into being docile because it's more convenient for teachers and parents.

Well in my case treatmeant helps a great deal, else I end up walking 3-4 miles in my apartment unable to sit. literally unable to concentrate if I have to sit for a while as the entire room begins to undulate unless I'm moving.

[starlord]

No it doesn't. It says that doctors that receive perks from the medical industry are more likely to prescribe brand name drugs than those that don't.

so if i give you money and say "hey do what you want but if you sell my product i will give you more", what exactly is the functional difference between "here is $ to sell my product"?

[Total Crica]

Ensuring that the regulations are followed is the very reason justice systems had been found.
The alternative would be moving back to tribal era, but we are getting off topic now.

Uh-huh, and who ensures the just are just? Never ending cycle full of humans who don't have to be just running the show. Only thing anyone can do is to live their life justly and let the rest sort itself out.

But my point is you don't have to make things a public venture in order to regulate them.

[Spectral]

Well in my case treatmeant helps a great deal, else I end up walking 3-4 miles in my apartment unable to sit. literally unable to concentrate if I have to sit for a while as the entire room begins to undulate unless I'm moving.

My claim isn't that drugs never help and that there aren't clear-cut cases where a diagnosis is obvious and the appropriate drug is obvious. It's that we're wildly overprescribing drugs that we barely understand the downstream mechanisms for and that this is largely a result of the old saw that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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so if i give you money and say "hey do what you want but if you sell my product i will give you more", what exactly is the functional difference between "here is $ to sell my product"?

One creates bias, the other creates direct incentive. These are very different in effect.

[Unholyground]

Weed is the best solution to ADHD.

[starlord]

One creates bias, the other creates direct incentive. These are very different in effect.

the difference in effect being the scale of it.

[THE Bigzoman]

so if i give you money and say "hey do what you want but if you sell my product i will give you more", what exactly is the functional difference between "here is $ to sell my product"?

IDK man, google up the difference between correlation & causation, which is one distinction you're failing to make; and also learn the difference between a direct incentive and something that MIGHT cause bias.

[Themius]

Weed is the best solution to ADHD.

Pro weed people say weed is best for everything lol

[Spectral]

the difference in effect being the scale of it.

Well, no, that's pretty plainly not the only relevant difference. If you take me out to dinner and tell me about your product, I learn something about the product and have a more favorable attitude towards it. This may bias me in favor of it (or I might be prescribing it because I legitimately learned something about it). If, on the other hand, I receive direct payment for each prescription, this provides a biasing incentive.

[starlord]

IDK man, google up the difference between correlation & causation, which is one distinction you're failing to make; and also learn the difference between a direct incentive and something that MIGHT cause bias.

thats why they did a study to find such bias. the amount of $ directly correlates to increases in prescribing those drugs. less $, less prescriptions. more $, more prescriptions. can you provide a different way of determining that?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I can buy into it being over diagnosed but it being total fiction? Hog wash.

[starlord]

Well, no, that's pretty plainly not the only relevant difference. If you take me out to dinner and tell me about your product, I learn something about the product and have a more favorable attitude towards it. This may bias me in favor of it (or I might be prescribing it because I legitimately learned something about it). If, on the other hand, I receive direct payment for each prescription, this provides a biasing incentive.

why is it then such things are considered an ethics violation in other fields?

[Felya]

Years ago, people who came back from war, were just stressed out when showing strange behavior. Now,we have PTSD... what's up with that?

[Spectral]

The backpedaling is real. Sure they don't receive direct payments but that wasn't the implication when the person you quoted brought up why it's a privatized healthcare problem. You regressed into an argument about semantics rather than accept you said something blatantly false. It's okay to be wrong. We're here to educate you.

This is actually pretty funny. I've been completely accurate in each of my posts about the matter - are you sure you shouldn't be receiving instruction from me?

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why is it then such things are considered an ethics violation in other fields?

My view is that it's an ethical violation in medicine as well. I've said repeatedly in the thread that I think psychoactive medications are wildly overprescribed. This doesn't rescue the claim that there's a direct pay-for-prescription model.