Will this be considered a stain in American history?

[Bullettime]

Increase costs for consumers? Funny thing to say as you gleefully watch the consumers lose their incomes. I know it's simple for you to blame things on robots...we aren't there yet. That is not why jobs have evaporated....its almost like the you are using robotics an excuse for not bring manufacturing back. You are sick man, I don't get it.

Because the literally only way to bring those jobs back to American workers would require steep tariffs on imports or huge tax burdens on companies that rely on automation.

Companies are going to make their profits if they have to gouge the fuck out of you to do it. Imposing tariffs or tax burdens will just result in the companies increasing the cost of their goods drastically, knowing Americans have to pay for it, while providing marginally more jobs.

Republicans are already trying to push that tax plan and even the fucking Koch Brothers are siding with the Dems on it being terrible. The fucking Koch Brothers.

Also on the point of automation, there are huge improvements coming to the field within the next even 5 years. Food service jobs and logistics (both warehouse work and transportation) are looking to get fucking decimated by it n the next decade, two tops. Automation is already happening, it's just been more of a slow creep as there hasn't been the necessity quite yet in some fields due to wages, such as in service jobs, and logistics has required more advanced tech than what was available 15 years ago. Both of these are changing.

[baskev]

If Obama wanted to he could have stopped some wars. Didn't do such a thing. Instead we got Libya and Syria, neither of them started by Bush. If you think Syria or Lybia are ''dominos'' because of Bush you are delusional. 20k+ drone strikes in one year. Obama couldn't sign an executive order to stop that? That was Bushes fault too? He said Guantanamo bay will get shut down. I guess Bush sabotaged this too somehow. Also: https://www.thenation.com/article/th...-world-war-ii/

Euuuuuhhh

If Obama wanted to he could have stopped some wars.
Nope. He pulled out and removed troops. But you can not just pull out all your troops at once. Or things as ISIS happen.

If you think Syria or Lybia are ''dominos'' because of Bush you are delusional. Bush removed so big powers in the region. The country's could not defend/govern themselves yet. Groups like ISIS had room to breath, grow and plan in those regions. How bad and horrible Sadam, Gaddafi etc where/are they held groups like that at bay. Bush removed the threat like those dictators ( or helped with removing). But had no plan AT all to deal with what happened next.

20k+ drone strikes in one year. Obama couldn't sign an executive order to stop that?
Yes he could. But where all the drone strikes useless?? No. To say he should not have done it is also bad. You do not know how good or bad all of them where.
What should he have done??? go full republican and sent in the troops??????

Gitmo .......lol....not bush fault....But obama has tried and tried that again. Kinda hard when republicans are not working with you. And last time checked obama removed like 75% off the inmates there ???? something you forget to mention.

arms deal......response: Republicans want to built for 55 tril more in arms.......

[Deleted]

The world is already a pretty wonderful places, just compare it to any time in the past and it's most likely better overall (for people, that is).
There's always some hiccups along the way but it will continue to get better.

Just like Republicans would do, both are exactly the same in that regard.

I totally agree with you.

I just wish these little bumps on the way to be less... plump?

On the other hand these make the ride a little colorful if anything.

[Macaquerie]

Gee, I wonder if that's why I support much higher wages for service sector jobs. You know, the minimum wage increases that Republicans consistently oppose?

Again, why do you think machine-harvestable tomatoes exist?

There is an argument to be made that while the manufacturing sector was thriving, it supported a much larger service sector to support all the people living in those factory towns, so that it may just be worthwhile to keep the factory running at a loss to maintain the rest of the local economy. Of course, there is a much more compelling argument that this model of societal organization was deeply flawed to begin with and perhaps our communities should be re-organized so that the loss of a single factory won't decimate an entire town.

[jugzilla]

Gee, I wonder if that's why I support much higher wages for service sector jobs. You know, the minimum wage increases that Republicans consistently oppose?

Again, why do you think machine-harvestable tomatoes exist?

I feel you are (maybe without even knowing it) shrinking the size of the pie, and offering people more slices.

[Mifuyne]

I totally agree with you.
I just wish these little bumps on the way to be less... plump?
On the other hand these make the ride a little colorful if anything.

Change doesn't happen overnight - neither does evolution.
Thankfully science has paved the way for all of us to work together better than before.
There are obviously those that do not want to move forward and are afraid of change so the road can get bumpy sometimes.

[finchna]

already a stain. not a day into the new presidency and it's become a battle about the number of people at the inauguration -- unbelievable picking that fight given the pictures, but whatever. and then there's the inaugural cake -- a duplicate of Obama's in 2013 -- so the new POTUS had to out-plagiarize the new FLOTUS (though she has done it twice) -- and we have 4 years of this to get through (though it will keep SNL in sketch material for the duration).

[Elegiac]

There is an argument to be made that while the manufacturing sector was thriving, it supported a much larger service sector to support all the people living in those factory towns, so that it may just be worthwhile to keep the factory running at a loss to maintain the rest of the local economy. Of course, there is a much more compelling argument that this model of societal organization was deeply flawed to begin with and perhaps our communities should be re-organized so that the loss of a single factory won't decimate an entire town.

This is very much the case; the emergent economy is incentivizing urbanization and demanding workers be more versatile and adaptible, things which are both more easily facilitated with centralised communities with a high degree of access to education. Moreover, the prominence of telecommuting for a lot of industries also favors urbanization as cities are much easier to wire with extensive internet and communications infrastructure.

Add to that the push among urban planners for denser, walkable communities and environmentalist push against urban sprawl, and you get a mix in which a lot of these industrial cities simply aren't worth the expense of maintaining. Even the new automated factories are more likely to resemble Tesla's gigafactory than how it used to be.

[Allybeboba]

He bloody told you how he's going to be. How long do you want to wait to start judging him? 4 years? Heck, are you even aware that your presidential debates are watched all over the world? Accusing your opponent of being a criminal that should be locked up is hardly dignified. Insulting reporters, disabled people... in my book, such a person shouldn't be a candidate to begin with, let alone win the grand prize. Of course I'll judge him now. I'll judge him for every comment he makes and has made throughout the campaign. And for every new comment that he is going to make. Think that's unfair? Touch cookie, life's a bitch and I'm not American, I can be as unfair as I want to be to him. I don't owe him jack shit, but the way he talks about Europe? Nah man, he's got something to make up for.

She is a criminal many times over and should have been locked up. Do your research.
Reporters are not special. He did nothing to "insult" a reporter. If anything the reporter insulted him by yelling at the President elect.
He did not insult a disabled man. That was edited footage from nearly half a decade ago. Biased media at it's best. You really should do your research.

What has he said about Europe that is negative? Give me specifics.
What is so wrong with wanting to put the needs of our country's citizens above the needs other country's citizens? Give me specifics.

It really is laughable people from Europe that have so much to say about American politics when they don't even know the full truth. They only have slanted news sources to rely on.

[Shadowferal]

So true. And the people within those swing states understood what the media tried to show as how good the economy is and how bad things would be under Trump, they knew was bullshit. In essence, their propaganda failed.

*nods in agreement*
After years of hearing how things will get better people got tired of hearing it. Those that voted for Obama turned and voted for Trump. And they were the pivotal votes.

[Bullettime]

Yeah, those blue collar workers were just too smart for everyone else.

Michigan actually is doing fine, regardless of what a few uneducated, unskilled schmucks think. Things could be better, but they could be a whole lot worse, and if Trump goes through with his policies, there's a really solid chance we'll to see the latter. A few extra automotive plants don't help people where our unemployment rates are highest and the cost of living will go up as imports, which help keep prices down, become more expensive. If your state isn't doing fine, maybe your state is the one fucking up, not the federal government. I wouldn't trust a bunch of blue collar workers for economic advice though regardless. What the fuck do they know? They just know if they have a job or not, but that's anecdotal and not a good measure of the overall health of the economy.

Apparently people think the solution is to create 1000 jobs that will be automated within 5 years by using policies that will raise the cost of everything at Wal-Mart in the neighborhood of 30%.

It's also funny how, like you said, people want to solely blame the feds and not their state and local government. It's not the federal government making Alabama, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Kansas the shit holes of the country.

[Allybeboba]

Yeah, those blue collar workers were just too smart for everyone else.

Michigan actually is doing fine, regardless of what a few uneducated, unskilled schmucks think. Things could be better, but they could be a whole lot worse, and if Trump goes through with his policies, there's a really solid chance we'll to see the latter. A few extra automotive plants don't help people where our unemployment rates are highest and the cost of living will go up as imports, which help keep prices down, become more expensive. If your state isn't doing fine, maybe your state is the one fucking up, not the federal government. I wouldn't trust a bunch of blue collar workers for economic advice though regardless. What the fuck do they know? They just know if they have a job or not, but that's anecdotal and not a good measure of the overall health of the economy.

So you are saying that blue collar workers can't be smart??

[Elegiac]

I feel you are (maybe without even knowing it) shrinking the size of the pie, and offering people more slices.

Not in the slightest.

Comparative advantage and free trade, both core aspects of globalisation, result in improved quality of life at lower cost in the long run as long as government regulation on the businesses involved is sufficient.

The industrial era is in its last days, you'd do well to accept it.

- - - Updated - - -

So you are saying that blue collar workers can't be smart??

If their refusal to seek education in order to reskill is any indication.

[Shadowferal]

One of the things that I recall hearing back in the 90s; People will pay for what they believe to be a quality product regardless of the price.
But they can't do that if they don't have the money.

[Allybeboba]

already a stain. not a day into the new presidency and it's become a battle about the number of people at the inauguration -- unbelievable picking that fight given the pictures, but whatever. and then there's the inaugural cake -- a duplicate of Obama's in 2013 -- so the new POTUS had to out-plagiarize the new FLOTUS (though she has done it twice) -- and we have 4 years of this to get through (though it will keep SNL in sketch material for the duration).

What side do think started that battle? The left biased media...

The liberals will battle him to the very end. Attacking the FLoUS is pretty unheard of. The liberal meadia have been even attacked Trump's children. That is a new low.

[Bullettime]

So you are saying that blue collar workers can't be smart??

More that they vote on emotion and not on facts. They voted, and routinely vote, for the candidate and party who's plans would raise the price of most shit they buy by huge margins all to create a piddly few jobs that won't exist in 5 years to a decade at most after being created.

They're angry and bought into a snake oil salesman's promise of a magic pill to fix their problems, only to have actually voted against themselves and keep trying to defend it instead of accepting reality.

We've already seen the tax plan the GOP wants. We've already seen the policies Trump wants. But people refuse to accept they got fucking scammed.

[jugzilla]

Because the literally only way to bring those jobs back to American workers would require steep tariffs on imports or huge tax burdens on companies that rely on automation.

Companies are going to make their profits if they have to gouge the fuck out of you to do it. Imposing tariffs or tax burdens will just result in the companies increasing the cost of their goods drastically, knowing Americans have to pay for it, while providing marginally more jobs

I don't think there is anything new here. Yes...Tariffs are the only tool to deal with this. But Empires have been built by building industry in their core lands, and have rotted away when they became importing countries. Why do we have to accept this decline? There is no reason...other than to allow our people to buy a lot of flimsey asian junk. There is no reason we should accept this status quo.

Not in the slightest.

Comparative advantage and free trade, both core aspects of globalisation, result in improved quality of life at lower cost in the long run as long as government regulation on the businesses involved is sufficient.

The industrial era is in its last days, you'd do well to accept it.

- - - Updated - - -

Comparative advantage...I actually hate that idea. I don't think it applies anymore. Any 3rd world country without envirornmental, safety, health plans, etc....has an advantage. The old adage of comparative advantage we read about in text-books does not apply.

[Elegiac]

What side do think started that battle? The left biased media...

The media has a corporate bias, not a left wing bias.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think there is anything new here. Yes...Tariffs are the only tool to deal with this. But Empires have been built by building industry in their core lands, and have rotted away when they became importing countries. Why do we have to accept this decline? There is no reason...other than to allow our people to buy a lot of flimsey Asian Junk. There is no reason we should accept this stat quo.

Name one empire that 'rotted away' as a result of a trade deficit.

[jimboa24]

I got one name for you: Andrew Jackson. Trump has a LONG, Loooooooooong way to go before he's anywhere near as bad a man and as bad a president/politician as Andrew Jackson was. Ignore the doom and gloomers. America has survived shit the likes of which this spoiled, entitled generation has never, ever seen nor can even imagine or relate with going through. We'll be just fine.

[Slant]

She is a criminal many times over and should have been locked up. Do your research.
Reporters are not special. He did nothing to "insult" a reporter. If anything the reporter insulted him by yelling at the President elect.
He did not insult a disabled man. That was edited footage from nearly half a decade ago. Biased media at it's best. You really should do your research.

What has he said about Europe that is negative? Give me specifics.
What is so wrong with wanting to put the needs of our country's citizens above the needs other country's citizens? Give me specifics.

It really is laughable people from Europe that have so much to say about American politics when they don't even know the full truth. They only have slanted news sources to rely on.

I think we have a pretty good picture. We know that you tried to prosecute her several times, had 8 or so hearings and nothing, nothing you threw at her stuck. Either you've got the most incompetent justice system in the history of mankind or someone is having a really bad grudge and keeps failing to find something evident enough to start a formal trial against her. And the way you talk, accepting her "criminal status" without her ever having been convicted, I think it's fair to say that you're just irrationally holding a personal grudge against her rather than your justice system being that bad.

What he said about Europe? He basically insinuated that we're leeching off the USA in a manner that no ally has ever insulted another ally. Putting Europe's citizens above your own citizens? Hardly. But you're forgetting that we're cleaning up your shit once more. Greece? They toppled not in small parts due to the global crisis originating in the USA and the financial reinsurance scandal your criminal financial sector provoked with fraudulent methods endorsed by your Government. The refugee crisis that has killed quite a number of European citizens? Direct result of US mlitary campaigning in Iraq.

Put our citizens above yours? Nope. Not at all. But it would be a start if the US didn't shat all over the world incompetently and expected Europe to deal with the aftermath. Hey, let's make a deal. You pull out of Europe and while you do that, take those 1.5 million refugees with you and plant them in the US. I'm pretty certain they'd like that.

Deal?