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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    That video is Nazi propaganda.
    Not sure if you understand what 'explains' means Visa-vi 'propaganda'.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Then they lost seats to the NSDAP and became a junior party.
    Well, I think the extreme racial ideology should be considered a flag..or hallmark of the extremist right-winger.

  3. #183
    Deleted
    That's why we call Republicans conservatives and not right wingers (unless you're playing the game of Republicans are like nazi's!) The Nazi party believed in facism, planned economy, and everyone worshiping the state. Comparing Nazi's to either political party is ignorant, it's an argument used by stupid people when their argument sucks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Here's an interview with the guy who came up with the phrase "alt-right". Just a typical racist like we had back in the 1950's only he tries to make it more palatable for a larger audience.

    He's the same guy who go punched yesterday, or was it the day before...



    KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:
    The new chief strategist for President-elect Donald Trump once said a website he used to run, Breitbart News, is a platform for the so-called alt-right. We're about to hear more about that movement from the man who says he came up with the term alt-right. His name is Richard Spencer, and in 2008, he began arguing there should be an alternative to George W. Bush-era Republicans and conservatives.
    Richard Spencer now runs a small think tank that pushes alt-right ideas. To be clear, the alt-right movement is also a white nationalist movement that's associated with racism, misogyny and anti-Semitism. What the alt-right wants, Spencer says, is an awakening of identity politics, meaning white identity politics.
    The alt-right used to exist mostly on the Internet, but with the rise of Donald Trump and his chief strategist, Steve Bannon, the movement is starting to hold conferences where hundreds of people attend. Spencer and others in the alt-right movement were suspended from Twitter this week. But now that Trump has been elected, Spencer says he believes the alt-right will continue to grow.
    RICHARD SPENCER: This is the first time we've really entered the mainstream, and we're not going away. I mean this is just the beginning. And I'm very excited.
    MCEVERS: Just a warning here. There are words and phrases and ideas in the next seven minutes that many people will find offensive, even hateful. But because this group has influence, we think you should hear what the alt-right is and what it wants from a Trump administration. So I ask Spencer that, and he said his end goal is a white ethno state sometime in the future.
    SPENCER: What I would ultimately want is this ideal of a safe space effectively for Europeans. This is a big empire that would accept all Europeans. It would be a place for Germans. It would be a place for Slavs. It would be a place for Celts. It would be a place for white Americans and so on.
    For something like that to happen and really for Europeans to survive and thrive in this very difficult century that we're going to be experiencing, we have to have a sense of consciousness. We're going to have to have that sense of identity.
    MCEVERS: Going forward, should only white European people be considered U.S. citizens?
    SPENCER: Well, no, I mean the citizenship of the United States - like, this is not something that can be changed right away. So I mean I think we need to differentiate identity and citizenship.
    MCEVERS: So in your idea, like, there's a United States of America where different people still have citizenship but they're living in separate enclaves; they're living in places where they are kept separate from one another.
    SPENCER: What I'm saying is that Europeans defined America. They defined what it is. Of course there are people who are non-European who are here, who are citizens and so on. What I would...
    MCEVERS: Who many would argue also defined America.
    SPENCER: Sure, and they did to a certain degree. But European people were the indispensable central people that defined this nation socially and politically and culturally and demographically obviously.
    I care about us more. That's all I'm saying. But I respect identitarians of other races. And I actually can see eye to eye with them in a way that your average conservative can't.
    MCEVERS: But you also believe that people of different races inherently do not get along. Isn't that right?
    SPENCER: I think world history believes that (laughter). I mean I don't - it's not just my opinion. I don't see very many counterexamples.
    MCEVERS: So you ride the subway in New York City. And you're sitting in a subway car, and you're looking at people from all over everywhere. And nobody's punching each other. Nobody's stabbing anyone. Everyone's going about their life, going to work, you know? You don't see that as, like, a way where people are getting along?
    SPENCER: Do we really like each other? Do we really love each other? Do we really have a sense of community in that subway car? What I see are a lot of...
    MCEVERS: Or a cul-de-sac or in kindergarten.
    SPENCER: Whenever many different races are in the same school, what will happen is that there'll be a natural segregation at lunchtime, at PE, at - in terms of after-school play.
    MCEVERS: Richard Spencer's views are obviously not easy to hear, but we do think they're important to hear because of the link between the alt-right and Donald Trump's team. I asked Richard Spencer what policies he's pushing for - natural conservation, he said, a foreign policy that's friendlier to Russia and this.
    SPENCER: Immigration is the most obvious one. And I think we need to get beyond thinking about immigration just in terms of illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is not nearly as damaging as legal immigration. Legal immigration - they're here to stay. Their children are here and so on.
    And I think a really reasonable and I think palatable policy proposal would be for Donald Trump to say, look; we've had immigration in the past. It's brought some fragmentation. It's brought division. But we need to become a people again. And for us to do that, we're going to need to take a break from mass immigration. And we're going to need to preference people who are going to fit in, who are more like us. That is European immigration.
    MCEVERS: You know, how likely do you think it is that some of these policies that you want to see happen will happen?
    SPENCER: What I want is influence. And sometimes influence can be invisible. If we can get these ideas out there, if people can see the compelling and powerful nature of them, I think we really can change policy.
    MCEVERS: I just want to go down a list of things. And you tell me if they are OK or not OK.
    SPENCER: OK.
    MCEVERS: Graffiti that says make America white again.
    SPENCER: I don't - look; graffiti is illegal, but...
    MCEVERS: The slogan make America white again.
    SPENCER: I don't have a huge problem with that I mean that people...
    MCEVERS: OK.
    SPENCER: ...Are just expressing their opinion.
    MCEVERS: Swastikas.
    SPENCER: A swastika is an ancient symbol. I don't - like, you know, if you're asking me, do I have a problem with people expressing themselves and maybe, you know...
    MCEVERS: With a swastika.
    SPENCER: People want to express themselves. They can do whatever they want.
    MCEVERS: So that's an OK - wearing white robes or hoods like the KKK.
    SPENCER: Look. I'm - you're not going to get me to condemn any of this because you haven't said anything that is really fundamentally illegal or immoral. I might not agree with some people. I might not like this. I might like that, not like that. But the fact is these are people expressing themselves. I'm not going to condemn any of that.
    MCEVERS: Do you agree with those expressions?
    SPENCER: I agree with people who want to get in touch with their identity as a European. That can take a number of different forms. I don't support any kind of physical threats or anything like that. I think that does cross the line.
    But in terms of people coming to terms with who they are, I don't oppose it. And I actually would respect - deeply respect the right of non-white people to try to understand themselves and to express themselves as they see fit.
    MCEVERS: What about Republicans in particular?
    SPENCER: Not a fan.
    MCEVERS: Right.
    SPENCER: Well, I like their voters. Like, the voters are great. I - the fact that they just chose Donald Trump - that is great. I love them. In terms of Republican operatives, in terms of the conservative movement - not a fan.
    MCEVERS: I guess I'm thinking of just Republicans in general - like, people maybe who did - who also voted for Donald Trump but who will say, you know, that your views are racist and are extreme and don't have a place in this country. How do you deal with them?
    SPENCER: If I had told you in 1985 that we should have gay marriage in this country, you probably would have laughed at me. And I think most people would have. Or at least - at the very least, you would have been a bit confused, and you would have told me, oh that's ridiculous. The fact is, opinions do change. People's consciousness does change. Paradigms are meant to be broken. That's what the alt-right is doing.
    MCEVERS: That was Richard Spencer, the leader of the so-called alt-right, a white nationalist movement that supported Donald Trump. Spencer says he is not in contact with the Trump transition team. We asked the Trump team to comment about links between Chief Strategist Steve Bannon and the alt-right, but we did not hear back.
    Nobody represents the "Alt-right". The alt right is a bunch of trolls on the internet who helped get Trump elected due to getting sick of political correctness. A bunch of neo-nazi's want to claim the movement as their own, but you really can't, because the alt-right is typically a bunch of teenagers learning how to troll eachother on the internet with memes.

  4. #184
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    It's not modern. Socialism and communism (and anarcho-syndicalism) were considered the last stage of liberalism in the late 1800s/1900s, so they were usually on the left-wing of the assemblies.
    yes, but fascism is a derivation of socialism, that is to say, in an alternate universe where communism dies out instead of coming to power, we might be talking about fascism as we talk about communism today.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Not sure if you understand what 'explains' means Visa-vi 'propaganda'.
    Not sure if you ever understand the difference between desinformation and information.

  6. #186
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    And those people that that think that fascists were anything but right wing are idiots.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sorry, but you can't make up your own reality by pigeonholing things you don't like into made up definitions.
    Fascists believe in a strong central Government, planned economy, worship of the Government, every job must be connected to the Government. Again, using what most people think "right wing" means to describe Nazi's is ridiculous.

  7. #187
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yes, but fascism is a derivation of socialism
    No it isnt, that is what this thread is about. Did you actually read any of the posts?

  8. #188
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Not sure if you ever understand the difference between desinformation and information.
    Propaganda can be both. It is not disinformation in and of itself. It's just information being propagated. That information can be true of false or a mix of both. Saying that something is propaganda - doesn't automatically mean it's disinformation.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  9. #189
    >idiots believe left and right wing are terms that are relevant.

    I believe in strong borders, economic protectionism and traditional values.

    But im a libertarian because i believe all people should have the right do with their lives as they please.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    That's why we call Republicans conservatives and not right wingers (unless you're playing the game of Republicans are like nazi's!) The Nazi party believed in facism, planned economy, and everyone worshiping the state. Comparing Nazi's to either political party is ignorant, it's an argument used by stupid people when their argument sucks.
    And everything in the state belongs to the people and every one are shering the profits that petty much sounds like socialism no matter how loud you gonna squeal .

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Again, using what most people think "right wing" means to describe Nazi's is ridiculous.
    Actually, the trump government is a fascist government, as it connects capitalism with the government. Or do you want to pretend the bank managers and billionaires in trumps team arent capitalists who become ministers?

    Add to that the fact he hires generals as well, and you have the industrial military complex Karl Marx talked about (not being part of communism, but being part of a deeply capitalist society, as the class enemy)
    Last edited by mmoc903ad35b4b; 2017-01-22 at 04:16 PM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Sodia View Post
    And everything in the state belongs to the people and every one are shering the profits that petty much sounds like socialism no matter how loud you gonna squeal .
    Written like someone that really wants to call liberals Nazis regardless of the education you have to be receiving in this thread.

  13. #193
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

    "Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[16] "
    "but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."[17] At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism."[15] The term that Hitler later wished he had used for his political party name was “social revolutionary.”[18] In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative".[19] On yet another occasion he qualified that statement by saying that the government should have the power to regulate the use of private property for the good of the nation.[20] Shortly after coming to power, Hitler told a confidant: "There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings".[21] He clearly believed that the lack of a precise economic programme was one of the Nazi Party's strengths, saying: "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all."[22] While not espousing a specific economic philosophy, Hitler employed anti-semitic themes to attack economic systems in other countries, associating ethnic Jews with both communism ("Jewish Bolsheviks") and capitalism, both of which he opposed.[23][24] Hitler also believed that individuals within a nation battled with each other for survival, and that such ruthless competition was good for the health of the nation, because it promoted "superior individuals" to higher positions in society.[25] At Berchtesgaden in July 1944, Hitler gave his final speech in front of an audience. Drafted by Albert Speer, he emphasised the "self-responsibility of industry". After the war was won "private initiative of German business will experience its greatest moment". Hitler also expressed his belief in "the further development of humanity through the promotion of private initiative, in which alone I see the precondition for all real progress."[26]



    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Bullshit. Go read a book, kid.
    mhm ok
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Actually, the trump government is a fascist government, as it connects capitalism with the government. Or do you want to pretend the bank managers and billionaires in trumps team arent capitalists who become ministers?

    Add to that the fact he hires generals as well, and you have the industrial military complex Karl Marx talked about (not being part of communism, but being part of a deeply capitalist society, as the class enemy)
    I'm seeing the beginnings of "corporate-fascism" myself.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The meaningless label is actually the meaningless label not the meaningless label. It is so meaningless.
    Exactly what I think whenever someone ask me if I'm "left" or "right" wing.

  16. #196
    Nazis were neither right or left wing, they were centrist authoritarians.

  17. #197
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Nobody represents the "Alt-right". The alt right is a bunch of trolls on the internet who helped get Trump elected due to getting sick of political correctness. A bunch of neo-nazi's want to claim the movement as their own, but you really can't, because the alt-right is typically a bunch of teenagers learning how to troll eachother on the internet with memes.
    That whole bit about white identity politics though, that's real.
    The lefts current fondness for that risks bringing forth some real problems, because when the majority group starts considering themselves a 'minority' (i.e not the whole of whom others consider themselves a minority) then bad things start to happen to minorities - And its typically very hard to make the majority culture stop think about themselves as that once they start.
    Its also worth noting that due to some inherent proposition of living in a free society, these are not solvable problems either.
    Imagine if the Germans hadn't elected to vote for Hitler, but instead just started refusing to shop at Jewish stores and interacting with them in any way, at some point, they would just leave.
    Would that have been 'wrong' ? The only way to say that would require people to not have the right to spend their own money.
    its scary, and its coming unless the left starts to advocate for civil unity really fucking fast.
    because that's the problem with telling white people anything, because at some point, they start thinking about themselves as white people.

  18. #198
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Propaganda can be both. It is not disinformation in and of itself. It's just information being propagated. That information can be true of false or a mix of both. Saying that something is propaganda - doesn't automatically mean it's disinformation.
    Propaganda is information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

    The movie i refer to actually is desinformation, as it propagates exactly the opposite of what fascism led to.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Not sure if you ever understand the difference between desinformation and information.
    we are not talking about the nature of reality we are talking about what the Nazi party thinks about reality - then their propaganda is a very good source.

  20. #200
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Propaganda is information
    I believe I already explained that
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    The movie i refer to actually is desinformation, as it propagates exactly the opposite of what fascism led to.
    I believe the topic is what fascism is and not what it led to.
    So that movie may be a good source on that.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

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