Pope Francis warns against rise in populism

[zorkuus]

I don't know, the whole hell and damnation part sounds quite enforcing to the believers. Not to mention the indoctrination that starts in childhood. He doesn't need to enforce anything himself. That's not how religion works.

And I really cannot believe I need to explain this.

He does have power, otherwise there would be no need for Pope and no one would want to be one and there would be no Vatican. .

You must be living in some alternate reality. Catholics are some of the most liberal religious people when it comes to following their religion.

[Elim Garak]

Once again, feel free to point out what ability does he have to enforce that "power" onto others?

He doesn't need to enforce it, duh, He just perpetuates the indoctrination and true believers (which are plenty) just listen to him.

[Elim Garak]

...but "nobody" listens to him - Yeah, there are devout catholics, but at the end of the day, everybody also constantly breaks most of the 10 commandments (who came directly from god, apparently).

Breaking commandments is fine in Catholic Church, you just atone for your sins on regular basis and donate. The power is - people know that they break commandments and they know it's bad and they feel bad for doing it and here comes the power. It's a guilt trip on steroids.

[Deleted]

He doesn't need to enforce it, duh, He just perpetuates the indoctrination and true believers (which are plenty) just listen to him.

I come from a predominantly and somewhat conservative Catholic country/place. Even then, what the pope says has relatively little impact on the everyday life of people unless they choose to willingly take his stance as their personal guideline for life. There are no general repercussions for not doing so.

But he doesn't speak as the private person Francis, he speaks as the leader of the (roman-catholic) church. And I am not letting that church off the hook for all the shit they have done over the centuries.

Holding Francis responsible for what the Church did in the past makes about as much sense as holding Trump, Merkel etc. responsible for what their countries did in the past.
We should judge leaders by their words and actions.

[Elim Garak]

Hehe, I wonder at what point and who invented the bit where it is fine to break the 10 commandments. That definitely must have been the church, certainly god didn't say that anywhere, but somebody "interpreted" him that way

It was always a theme dating back to the 3rd century when Christianity began to get around and mix with various paganism. but the most prominent movement was during Crusades when people who wanted to go Crusading needed a permission to do it (because it involves a lot of sinning) and later in middle ages Catholics came up with the idea of selling indulgences.

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I come from a predominantly and somewhat conservative Catholic country/place. Even then, what the pope says has relatively little impact on the everyday life of people unless they choose to willingly take his stance as their personal guideline for life. There are no general repercussions for not doing so.

There are none in THIS life. But just wait for when you die...

it's cool that you were lucky enough to be born into a modern and somewhat secualr society but there are a lot of people in Africa suffering from Catholic influence right now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Hehe, I wonder at what point and who invented the bit where it is fine to break the 10 commandments. That definitely must have been the church, certainly god didn't say that anywhere, but somebody "interpreted" him that way

To be fair most people don't actually break them. Having sex outside of marriage is not in the commandments. The only one that is largely ignored in the one about not taking gods name in vain, but besides that you have to be quite the scumfuck to break most of them on a regular basis. What you guys are talking about is the sin stuff, which is also what you try to be forgiven when you do a confession.

[Breccia]

To be fair most people don't actually break them. Having sex outside of marriage is not in the commandments.

Unless one (or both) of you are married, but to other people. Also, so is coveting a married woman, so God basically said "don't even think about it".

[Cosmic Janitor]

Unless one (or both) of you are married, but to other people. Also, so is coveting a married woman, so God basically said "don't even think about it".

Well as I said you have to be a disgusting piece of shit to actually break that, I'm an atheist and I perceive cheating to be as wrong. Same for killing and stealing. The covet stuff is depending on peoples interpretation. Most people probably interpret it as you shouldn't get green with envy of other peoples shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_covet

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Either way, I think the number of Catholics that actually follow their religion to the letter is dwindling fast. At least here in Europe. I'd be more concerned with the disturbing numbers that your American brand has..

[Deleted]

Only the ruling elite lives in Vatican, duh. Catholic Church has over a billion members. Pope dictates their sex life among other things.

Really? You mean, if the pope tomorrow said... reverse cowgirl position is forbidden, if I had that with a woman, we'd go to prison? Because, if the answer is no, he doesn't rule anyone, he just brings suggestions. Ok, fine, he rules the 1000 people in Vatican, but I'm talking about the remaining 999 million 999 thousand people from the billion you were talking about.

[Deleted]

The Pope is right. Let's not judge Trump until we see more from him.
Although his cabinet picks are shameful.

[Deleted]

I don't see how that is in any way relevant to what I said. This is not about citizenship, this is about tyrannical leaders. Pope's reach transcends borders. It's terrifying.

So does the influence of Bill Gates.

So does the influence of Mark Zuckerberg.

So does the influence of Britney Spears.

So does the influence of Donald Trump.

So does the influence of etc.


Or are we talking about Vatican as a whole transcending borders?
So does the influence of Nestle.

So does the influence of World Food Programme.

So does the influence of Greenpeace.

So does the influence of etc.

As you see, his reach transcending borders is nothing special in our world. It was once, in Medieval Ages. But that's not the case anymore.

Madonna has no real power over people. Pope does, to devastating effect.

Neither does the pope. He has no real power over people outside the 1000 living in Vatican. He has influence, just like Madonna, just like Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg.

He doesn't need to enforce it, duh, He just perpetuates the indoctrination and true believers (which are plenty) just listen to him.

You mean, just like companies and superstars do? So, that's nothing special again...

There are none in THIS life. But just wait for when you die...

it's cool that you were lucky enough to be born into a modern and somewhat secualr society but there are a lot of people in Africa suffering from Catholic influence right now.

Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, they don't feel to be "suffering" as you say, but rather they are happy with that influence? No you have not, because you're so anti-religion that you have become as annoying as those people coming to shove religion down your throat.

[Kalis]

Really? You mean, if the pope tomorrow said... reverse cowgirl position is forbidden, if I had that with a woman, we'd go to prison? Because, if the answer is no, he doesn't rule anyone, he just brings suggestions. Ok, fine, he rules the 1000 people in Vatican, but I'm talking about the remaining 999 million 999 thousand people from the billion you were talking about.

His rule is spiritual, not temporal.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Wow 50% cheat on their partner. And here I thought I was giving mankind little credit.
I'm not really here to defend one of the christian sects, but I think you deliberately misinterpret alot of the ideas here because they seem as an easy attack vector, when the issue is a lot more complex. Saints for example are really niche in catholicism. They exist but they are not gods, it's more like writing to your govenor as far as I understand it. An attempt to revere special people within the religon. Not saying it's particularily successfull. The jesus stuff is fixed by the 3 way retcon for example .
But you are right, actually disscecting all that would take a lot of time and by that time the mods will have closed this.

[Mormolyce]

Only the ruling elite lives in Vatican, duh. Catholic Church has over a billion members. Pope dictates their sex life among other things.

He can dictate all he likes, since he isn't an actual ruler.

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I don't see how that is in any way relevant to what I said. This is not about citizenship, this is about tyrannical leaders. Pope's reach transcends borders. It's terrifying.

It sure was, up to about 300 years ago.

[alzoron]

Why is the BBC referring to Trump as "Mr Trump" I thought their official policy was to refer to a US president as "President So and So" at the beginning of an article and then switch to "Mr" afterwards.

[Adolecent]

"Beware of a rise in populism and the dangers of allowing political crises to usher in dictators like Hitler."

Said a tyrannical non-elected ruler of over a billion people

God wasn't elected too.

[Deleted]

What a shame that Ottomans didn't manage to capture Vienna and buttrape Rome.

[Eliseus]

The pope is literally not important to anything, even the catholic religion. He is by definition a false idol even.

[Unhinged]

Why is this idiot even still relevant. He should be put in history like the thousands of other stupid beliefs.

[Corvus]

It is amusing, given how much of a populist the current pope is as well. It just that he comes from the other end of the populist scale.