On "Warcraft Assassins"

[Nerraw]

We’ve seen a lot of discussions about our recent hero releases in the community lately, and we agree that we definitely overdid it a little bit with the Warcraft assassins over the past few months. I wanted to step into this thread to say thank you for sharing your feedback on this with us, and to hopefully give you a little more context into how we wound up with what’s happened.

Something that’s important to consider is that our development process for each hero starts nine months to a full year ahead of their planned release dates. After a certain point in the pipeline it becomes very difficult to shuffle heroes around without slipping on our goal of putting a new hero into your hands every three to four weeks. By the time we took a step back and said “You know, we sure have released a lot of assassins lately…” we were well past the point where we could change things up. :-(

First up was Samuro, whom this team has been wanting to do for over 2 years, and we were finally in a place we could ship him. Awesome! Next up we had Varian. He was what we had labeled a “Gladiator” archetype, which would later be renamed to Multi-Class (as we felt it was more true to what it meant).

Next up was Ragnaros. Originally, we had pitched him as a Core-Replacement Hero, who would influence the battlefield from afar. Something we had penciled in as a Specialist. About 2 months into development, however, we moved away from that design to the Ragnaros you know today. We considered leaving him a Specialist, but thought his role as a Bruiser would be more accurately reflected as Assassin, a la Thrall.

A while after we were into Rag and Varian design, we realized that Zul’jin would make an excellent addition, as we hadn’t added a Sustained Ranged Attacker to the game in quite some time. However, we realized we now had 4 Warcraft Heroes in a row. We decided to stick with it, due to what kind of flexibility we had (or really, didn’t have) in maneuvering the schedule.

About 3 months after we had started work on the next set of Heroes to follow Zul’jin, we had to shuffle up Valeera to follow Zul’jin first, due the needs of the team as a whole. At the time, we didn’t pause to consider the ramifications of what it would mean as a player experience, in terms of getting a diverse roster of Heroes in regards to our Archetype definitions and our Universes.

At the time, we were looking at the Heroes, and from a very Game Designer view, we saw this:

• Stealthed 3-Card-Monté assassin
• Multi-Class Hero: Warrior, Bruiser, Dive Assassin
• Bruiser with Heavy Map Implications
• Sustained Ranged Attacker
• Enemy Carry Disabler

Now, while to us that’s 5 very different experiences (and in fact a new role in the form of a Hero that focuses on Disabling a team’s primary damage), in the current Heroes Archetype listing, that’s 5 Heroes that can be called “Assassin”.

We realize that unleashing so many Warcraft assassins back to back wasn’t the best decision in terms of hero diversity, and isn’t quite as exciting for those of you who don’t necessarily enjoy assassins as much as the other roles.

However, once you’ve had the chance to try out Valeera, we’re confident you’ll find her playstyle is pretty different from our other assassins. Internally, we’ve had a blast striking from the shadows and figuring out all of the various ways to use her combo mechanics effectively, and we hope that you’ll find her just as fun to play as we do.

We know there are also some of you who have concerns about another stealth hero joining the Nexus so soon after Samuro’s release. Valeera has undergone many rounds of playtesting and iteration, and one of our primary focuses was on not only how much fun it is to play as her, but how it feels to play against her as well. We think we’ve reached a nice middle ground, and we’d love to hear your thoughts after you’ve played a few games with and against the rogue.

Now that Valeera is out in the wild, we think you’re going to be pretty happy with the rest of the heroes we have planned for 2017. The feedback you, the community, has provided us has greatly influenced our planning. You can definitely expect more diversity in terms of both role and universe compared to 2016. I would hope that in January of 2018, we’ll be able to look back and see a much wider offering of Heroes (including, yes, Supports!).

We can’t wait to show you what we have in store! Thank you so much for continuing to provide feedback! We’ll see you in the Nexus!

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hero...ic/20752651047

[ro9ue]

It's cool that they actually came out and officially talked about this, even though I don't think they really had to. Imo, all that matters is that the heroes are mechanically fun and well designed. And I don't think it really takes a genius to realize Warcraft is their most expansive universe with the most fleshed out characters, so you would have to assume it would lean hard that way.

My only minor concern was just a lack of choice when it comes to playing a role like support, but that doesn't mean I think they should rush a half baked support hero concept out the door, I'd rather them take the time they need and develop a support with a solid kit.

[Felvet]

I am glad they decide to have an official response to this, it's reassuring that Blizzard is at least taking the feedback and acknowledging it.
Have to admit that I am one of those "not another goddamn Warcraft assassin" people, but at least the decision makes a lot more sense and is justified better now.

[DesoPL]

To be honest, we got too many warcraft characters, while we still missing for example zerg support or protoss specialist. (Yep Karax, i mean you!) Also lack of Diablo heroes from all games, including Aidan, D2 and D3 playable classes or demons such Duriel, Andariel or Mephisto is not acceptable. So far also we got only two angels Tyrael and Auriel, where is our Imperius and Malthael?

Also can't wait for Overwatch support and specialist. I could love play Ana or Symmetra as supports, while for spec Thjorborn.

And as for multi-class heroes. I think HOTS is first ever moba, who ever maked it? Give us if next warcraft hero will happend. GIVE US HAMMUL RUNETOTEM!

[Necroofeelya]

Its good that they came out and acknowledged the comments of their fans. Yea they have released a lot of assassins lately and should stray away from it for a bit. As far as the Warcraft universe complaining though. What do people expect? Their biggest franchise is WoW so people shouldn't be butt hurt when most of the heroes are from that universe. I mean, I am rooting for Baal or Mephisto from diablo being released just as much as the next guy. However, I also understand that the majority heroes will be Warcraft characters.

[Stormcall]

Its good that they came out and acknowledged the comments of their fans. Yea they have released a lot of assassins lately and should stray away from it for a bit. As far as the Warcraft universe complaining though. What do people expect? Their biggest franchise is WoW so people shouldn't be butt hurt when most of the heroes are from that universe. I mean, I am rooting for Baal or Mephisto from diablo being released just as much as the next guy. However, I also understand that the majority heroes will be Warcraft characters.

Quit countering arguments nobody is making. Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has said there shouldn't be the most heroes from WoW. Not ONE PERSON. So your point about "so people shouldn't be butt hurt when most of the heroes are from that universe" is 100% fucking irrelevant because absolutely NOBODY was butthurt about most heroes being from WoW. The issue was 5 CONSECUTIVE heroes from WoW. Not that there is more WoW heroes. The 2 arguments are NOT THE SAME THING, so stop acting like it is. There is literally, absolutely, NO reason why they couldn't do 2 or 3 WoW heroes, then give us a SC/Diablo/OW hero(or Blackthorne if you wanna go Blizz Classic), then throw in another 2-3 WoW heroes. We expect there to be more WoW heroes, literally EVERYONE expects there to be more WoW heroes than the other games. But there are still plenty of heroes available from the other games, so even with WoW having the most heroes, there is no need to put out 5 of them consecutively.

[Ballistic]

TBH I don't know why everyone making fuss about which universe they are bringing heroes from or the release order by heroes universe, still the heroes feel unique and different by each release and eventually we are getting other heroes from the other universes.

[RH92]

TBH I don't know why everyone making fuss about which universe they are bringing heroes from or the release order by heroes universe, still the heroes feel unique and different by each release and eventually we are getting other heroes from the other universes.

All Blizzard games have different aesthetics and their characters have different level of importance in their respective franchises. To some people it matters a lot as they like to play certain characters and not exactly for their kit, that's why you have people requesting Kel'thuzad and not a Hero that does this and that.

[pateuvasiliu]

Warcraft has way, way more characters that can be made into heroes than Starcraft and Diablo. Put together.

I have no issue with that. Warcraft is also vastly more popular.

[Stormcall]

Warcraft has way, way more characters that can be made into heroes than Starcraft and Diablo.

Read the thread please. I already explained 3 posts above yours EXACTLY why the point you make here is completely, 100% irrelevant.

[pateuvasiliu]

Read the thread please. I already explained 3 posts above yours EXACTLY why the point you make here is completely, 100% irrelevant.

They want heroes that sell.

The likes of Zul'jin, Ragnaros, Varian, Valeera/Rogue will sell more than some Starcraft Firebat or the Diablo Druid, because Warcraft has way, way more fans and hype. It's also still ongoing, whereas SC2/Diablo are pretty dead.

Blizzard wants your money and they want your money NOW ( hence releasing Zarya, Tracer since Overwatch is hot and Varian who gained popularity with the Legion cinematics ).

You'll get your heroes when Blizzard will be less concerned with instant $$.

[Stormcall]

They want heroes that sell.

So why not make "Heroes of WoW" rather than "Heroes of the Storm" and just give us all WoW characters? So why did we get Lunara, Brightwing, Stitches? Those aren't exactly known and beloved heroes...

[NoiseTank13]

They want heroes that sell.

The likes of Zul'jin, Ragnaros, Varian, Valeera/Rogue will sell more than some Starcraft Firebat or the Diablo Druid, because Warcraft has way, way more fans and hype. It's also still ongoing, whereas SC2/Diablo are pretty dead.

Blizzard wants your money and they want your money NOW ( hence releasing Zarya, Tracer since Overwatch is hot and Varian who gained popularity with the Legion cinematics ).

You'll get your heroes when Blizzard will be less concerned with instant $$.

A much better comparison would be Zul'jin versus Stukov in terms of 'Which entity is far more recent, recognizable, and """""cooler""""" when it comes to instant purchases.

I'm pretty sure Stukov (just an example) would beat the shit out of Zul'jin and Valeera combined in terms of demand.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

There goes all hope for Garrosh anytime soon.

[Raugnaut]

A much better comparison would be Zul'jin versus Stukov in terms of 'Which entity is far more recent, recognizable, and """""cooler""""" when it comes to instant purchases.

I'm pretty sure Stukov (just an example) would beat the shit out of Zul'jin and Valeera combined in terms of demand.

Zul'jin has been asked for quite some time, so not a good example. Now, Varian AND Valeera? Sure.

- - - Updated - - -

There goes all hope for Garrosh anytime soon.

Yea, sure. R1 - QQ bout how his dad was a demon lover. R2 - QQ bout how Thrall left him with too much responsibility, and how he shat on it cuz "he wasn't ready" (Despite challenging Thrall for the Warchief position before - Obviously, Garrosh thought he was ready. Garrosh could have been a good character, but he was wrote as a whiny little fucked-up shit).

Grommash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Garrosh.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Zul'jin has been asked for quite some time, so not a good example. Now, Varian AND Valeera? Sure.

- - - Updated - - -



Yea, sure. R1 - QQ bout how his dad was a demon lover. R2 - QQ bout how Thrall left him with too much responsibility, and how he shat on it cuz "he wasn't ready" (Despite challenging Thrall for the Warchief position before - Obviously, Garrosh thought he was ready. Garrosh could have been a good character, but he was wrote as a whiny little fucked-up shit).

Grommash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Garrosh.

Drinks demon blood and dooms his whole race. Kills a demon and out of nowhere becomes a hero just because. Thats Grom right there, very good character indeed.

[Raugnaut]

Drinks demon blood and dooms his whole race. Kills a demon and out of nowhere becomes a hero just because. Thats Grom right there, very good character indeed.

Its alot better then a useless meatsack who doesn't lift a finger to help his tribe, who then has his morale boosted by knowledge of his father, who then questions a COUNCIL made of MUCH more experienced people(Thrall - Took the entirety of his people from Northern Lordaeron, assimilated a number of smaller tribes, and leaded his ppl through a major war. Sylvannas - General of a large army corps for thousands of years, lead her ppl through 1 war, failed to defend her homeland against an army that decimated all of northern lordaeron, then lead her new ppl in a succesful revolution, Cairne, who managed to defend his ppl against an attempted genocide by the Centaurs, and that one blood elf dude who was in his station for a long-ass time and probably has more cred then Garrosh. Vol'jin is actually kinda useless when you think about it. Not to mention Eitrigg, Saurfang, and a solid host of other misc advisors) on everything, declares an outdated tribal ritual against Thrall without seeing even 2% of the larger picture, proceeds to royally fuck up foreign relations in Northrend, has to have Saurfang clean up his ass (Oh hey Garrosh, your supply chain is completely crippled, to which Garrosh replies "I DONT GIVE A FUCK ATTACK ALLIANCE AND TAKE THEIR SUPPLY CHAINS"), launches numerous assaults on the Alliance based SOLELY on his own bigotry (Which, you know, also gives the major enemy reinforcements, essentially weaking both yours and the enemy of an enemy, while strengthing an enemy who wants the entire world enslaved and under his command). Lets not forget how, once Thrall makes the fucked-up and mistaken choice of making Garrosh warchief, he proceeds to mortally, and irreversibly offend EVERY faction under his command, proceeds to launch blitzkriegs against any available targets, including neutral ones (Gilneas, Pandaria, ect)(The important targets that he doesn't annihilate are quickly retaken back by the Alliance), starts waging genocide against those under his command, fails to properly defend an extremely defensible location from siege (Extreme communications failure - While his gates are under siege at every location, he has a large number of troops undergoing training, sleeping, playing darts using citizens as the target, and taking some old god feel-good juice), goes to jail, gets busted out, kills the guy who busted him out (Ok, now that was justified), kills a shamanistic leader in order to manipulate the man he thought as his father into doing his bidding, proceeds to make EVERY single mistake he did before, totally ignores the impending demonic invasion (Dude, we all know that the Legion is interested in some juicy Draenei souls, and he has a place with a shit-ton of souls)... Really, the only reason the Iron Horde managed to develop was because nobody gave a fuck about it for however many years it took to bring it up - Kinda like Germany before WW2. He then proceeds to blame somebody else for HIS fuck-ups, despite previously being 110% certain he was capable of doing a better job then that somebody else (You don't challenge a dude to a duel unless you are either retarded, or 100% confident).

TLR? Garrosh was setup as a completely worthless fuckwad since the start, only Thrall didn't see that and had major hard-on for Grom.

[Mormolyce]

I honestly don't really mind, Warcraft has about a billion characters so there's always going to be more, sucks to get so many in a row but... eh. Actually the assassin part is worse than the Warcraft part, speaking as someone who loves specialists and supports.

But can they please reduce the occurrence rate of Starcraft/Diablo hero dailies? I keep getting the fucking things and now almost my entire SC/Diablo roster is level 9.

Or for fuck's sake just add the ability to replace one daily per day like Hearthstone, I absolutely do not understand why we're 1.5 years in and this still isn't a feature.

[Stormcall]

Zul'jin has been asked for quite some time, so not a good example. Now, Varian AND Valeera? Sure.

Except the Zul'jin people were asking for is not the one we got. People wanted the 1 armed Zul'jin from WoW, not "generic WC2 axe thrower with Zul'jins name" which is what they got.

[Raugnaut]

Except the Zul'jin people were asking for is not the one we got. People wanted the 1 armed Zul'jin from WoW, not "generic WC2 axe thrower with Zul'jins name" which is what they got.

People were just asking for Zul'jin by name, not by game. People should learn to be more specific.