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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Sodia View Post
    Wow MMO Cham hit a new bottom ... Now you change History and Definitions of things ?? how much SJW this website can be ?? You wont be happy until you reach buzzfeed and feminist frequency level of crap ??
    What are we changing? The definition of Fascism and Nazism? Because we aren't. We have linked it several times that both are right wing. Some right wingers on here can't stand that their Cheeto tanned leader is closer to Fascist than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Fascists believe in a strong central Government, planned economy, worship of the Government, every job must be connected to the Government. Again, using what most people think "right wing" means to describe Nazi's is ridiculous.
    I will go with what is defined by multiple definitions over someone that "feels" that Nazis weren't right wing. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzington View Post
    Well said. I'm finding it hard to believe that there are actually people seriously saying the Nazis were left wing.
    Some people have no clue that putting a word in there, doesn't automatically make it so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sethman75 View Post
    Ok so the bullshit started in the first couple of lines OP.

    Nazis were the antithesis of conservatives. For starters conservatives are mostly Judeo/Christian based, nazis were pagans and athiests.

    Which seems to be the vast majority of the liberal left as well. So a base fact of your bullshit statement is incorrect. Learn to read
    And you are wrong already. The bolded part is 100% bullshit. Otherwise Nazis wouldn't wear a belt buckle with "Gott Mitt Uns" on it.

    You know what that translates to? "God With Us" Nazis were fucking Christians, not atheists or Pagans. The only one that needs to learn to read, anything other than the fucking whitewashed history you were taught, is you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilanth View Post
    Lets see:

    A centralized economy and a single party system.

    Sounds pretty lefty to me.
    And you would still be wrong. Not really surprising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    And? I'm gonna keep calling everyone on this site a Marxist. Not much better. Nazis were socialists by the way.
    And Endus already destroyed this argument but hey, you keep being wrong.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Rootkitt View Post
    Just curious, do you approach all your debates with such an aggressive attitude? You know people are a lot more inclined to listen to you if you just toned yourself down a notch or two and used logic instead of berating with insults and hostility.
    Sorry, I have to be aggressive to people that have no fucking clue what they are talking about. They are the reason the average IQ of this country keeps going down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    I wonder when GenOT turned into Stormfront-lite.
    The day that Hitler 2.0 started running.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by For_The_Horde View Post
    Which is an inaccurate. Otto Strasser, the leader of the 'socialist' or 'left-wing Nazis', had been expelled from the party in July 1930 and his brother, Gregor Strasser, left it in late 1932. In both cases clashes with Hitler were to blame. So while Gregor was killed in the Night of the Long Knives, and Otto escaped into exile, both of them had been effectively purged prior to this.
    It's also worth noting that the 1930s German radical left were insufferably short-sighted and stupid, as they were more concerned with sticking it to the center-left like those in the Social Democratic Party than understanding the existential threat of the Nazis. This basic division ended in disaster, as the KPD were the first into the concentration camps after the Reichstag was burned.

    It's like... I don't know... supporters of an American Socialist politician supporting a far-right nationalist in a fit of pique because the neoliberal sellout candidate won the Democratic Party nomination.

  4. #264
    Don't forget they also campaigned on Health Care and Jobs and basically anything you'd expect from Hilary or Obama. Still Nazism is a mix of left and right beliefs, leaning to the right because of its preponderance for ethnic supremacy (the ethnicity of which is in much of their rhetoric considered unitary and egalitarian under military rule).

  5. #265
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    And? I'm gonna keep calling everyone on this site a Marxist. Not much better.
    Nobody is expecting anything better

    Nazis were socialists by the way.
    False.

  6. #266
    "but they're socialists hur hur hur"

    Give me a break. They only were in name.

  7. #267
    remember running into this a while back before the election from the political compass site.


    In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Nazis were fascist aka authoritarian nationalist. And they also were socialists, not capitalists. There was pretty much nothing capitalist about nazism.

    Left wing = socialism, right wing = capitalism

    So, nazis were left wing.

    If you can't handle that truth, go have your temper tantrum somewhere else.

    /thread
    The Nazi's brought in socialist ideals to reduce the risk of a communist uprising. An example is Volkswagen.

    The Nazi's and Hitler hated socialism and communism, to the point that they put a lot of their war effort into attacking the Soviet Union.

    And right wing =/= capitalism, you can be a left wing country but can still be capitalist, China is a great example. Right wing tends to be nationalist.

    And trust me, I did my whole year 12 (HSC here in New South Whales, Australia) on Germany from WW1 to the end of the cold war. (WW1 you have to do though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilanth View Post
    Lets see:

    A centralized economy and a single party system.

    Sounds pretty lefty to me.
    Yet all the people who supported the left (socialist and communist) were all locked up into camps.

    How can the Nazi's be left wing if they fucking hate the left wing?
    Last edited by Volardelis; 2017-01-23 at 02:31 AM.

  9. #269
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    What are we changing? The definition of Fascism and Nazism? Because we aren't. We have linked it several times that both are right wing. Some right wingers on here can't stand that their Cheeto tanned leader is closer to Fascist than most.

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    I will go with what is defined by multiple definitions over someone that "feels" that Nazis weren't right wing. Thanks.

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    Some people have no clue that putting a word in there, doesn't automatically make it so.

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    And you are wrong already. The bolded part is 100% bullshit. Otherwise Nazis wouldn't wear a belt buckle with "Gott Mitt Uns" on it.

    You know what that translates to? "God With Us" Nazis were fucking Christians, not atheists or Pagans. The only one that needs to learn to read, anything other than the fucking whitewashed history you were taught, is you.

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    this is 100% fucking wrong. hitler and the nazis only used the church to control the german people and had immense distrust of them and hitler wanted to just chuck the catholics and christians in camps but couldn't because of the strong religious sentiments in german society. he hated them. your teacher should be appalled. hitler hated religion.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    It doesn't matter what US people think about the scale, because Hitler and Germany aren't American. What it means in Germany, and Europe, matters.

    So, 2 points:

    1. In European definition, Hitler was left wing.
    2. The definition and usage of left-right politics has changed over time.
    Hitler was using whatever buzzwords existed at the time he thought would get him attention. ''National-socialist'' makes about as much sense as ''Conservative-liberal'' would make today.

    Fascism and Nazism (which aren't the same thing) were very much a ''third way'' that tried to incorporate elements of both systems. Nazi Germany had loads of free enterprise that any hardcore leftist would abhor... so long as they served the German race. They instituted social programs? Sure, but so did guys like Bismarck or American politicians even before the New Deal and these people were everything but socialists. The extremely authoritarian view of the State and Leader being above everyone and existing to elevate the Master Race is also not left-wing at all, and doesn't even begin to fit the ideals of socialists and communists.

    Also, Hitler waged war on Communism (it's a big reason why he was appointed Chancellor) and was backed by industrialists, old money and the military establishment. These were not exactly bastions of left-wing thought, especially the German military.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    Why did Hitler send socialists to concentration camps if he was a lefty himself?
    Because Hitler was a nut job?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilanth View Post
    Lets see:

    A centralized economy and a single party system.

    Sounds pretty lefty to me.
    Yes because the left want to divide everyone by race and commit genocide.......

  13. #273
    Scarab Lord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Edit: Adding a disclaimer is probably a good idea:

    This thread was started because i see a new argument occurring in my countries politics as well as all over the world and recently also here on MMOC. This thread is not about saying every right winger/conservative is a Nazi. Far from that. But as i see its used all of the time against socialist ideas i want to point out, that originally the nazi party was considered right wing and was always deeply opposed to socialism. Seeing new right-wing parties rise that have the same strong nationalism as the original nazi party, it seems hillarious to me that these new parties use the socialism in national-socalism to attack socialist parties.

    Granted that this doesn't fit the modern perception of right/left, which is problematic in itself (as often pointed out in this thread), but historically speaking them being on right wing is much more true than them being left wing.


    After reading this misconception again and again on this forum, i feel the need to set something right. I often read that the Nazis were in reality left-wingers, because they had "socialist" in their name. Now this thought-process isn't entirely new, it has been used for a decade by the alt-right wing in europe (and i really speak about alt-right (not FPÖ, FN, AFD) but propaganda outlets (politically incorrect, unzensuriert) by linking Nazis to the left because of "socialism").

    Now thats a nice idea, but it couldn't be any more wrong. Lets start by a definition: National socialism is by definition facist. The whole party was built up under the ideal of Mussolinis Italy as a facist regime.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    Facism in europe at least at the time of the second world war was always right wing and opposed to democratic/republican ideals (not saying these are left ideals; facists also fought against right wing democrats)

    So what about the socialism in National socialism? Populist policies!

    Basically the same how a specific american individual won his election recently:

    Promising the majority what they want:

    Jobs
    Social Security
    Perspective
    Fighting against the "biggest evil" in the world

    Not saying trump is a Nazi or Facist (time has to show that), but a populist, who used the same populist ideas which the Nazis used to get to power. Let me get a bit more in detail:

    Jobs

    Germany/Austria was still struggling from the great depression. The regime basically created new jobs on debt, which would only work out by the spoils of war. Thats bad, but not how most people think about the world. My grandmother was 18 when the Nazis rose to power here in Austria. For her, though being on the other side of the political spectrum, that was great news, because she immediatley got a job after being 3 years unemployed. This worked not only by creating jobs on debt, but also by getting rid of undesireables (gays, sick people, women). "Produce Aryan, Buy Aryan" - seems familiar?

    Social Security

    Now thats a speciality in germany: Nearly every big socialist improvement was being done by anti-socialist to take the drive from the ever growing support of socialist parties. This has a rather funny tradition in Germany. Pensions and healthcare weren't introduced by socialist parties, but rather by the national and right-wing chancellor of Germany Bismarck to decrease the influence and approval of socialist parties. The Nazis just built up on that, as the socialist parties were on of their last remaining foes (Conservatives helped Hitler grab power - though in their defense they gambled on Hitler being ousted in a short time ... that didn't work out)

    Fighting against bad people

    Now thats a populist classic:
    Catholics/Popists in England have been the source of all evil in England for centuries, and punishing Popist always had a huge support in the population.

    Jews have been the source of all evil in Europe. Progroms against jews had a huge support in the population.*
    Muslims...


    Now all this is not really new, and its the same basic principle used since the old greeks to win democratic elections. My point on this: Populism isn't really left or right, there are examples for both, but just because you take some socialist ideas on board it doesn't make you left or right, its the intention thats important. Facism in Europe has always been on the extreme right side of the political spectrum.

    Again, there is also a long list of shame for the left side, but somehow constructing national socialism to be on the left side of the spectrum is just hillarious.


    *Funny thing, this was actually invented by the english king Edward "Longshanks" (Braveheart) who was the first who used populism as a policy (He and his wife had a ceremony where the made a procession of the perceived skulls of King Arthur and his Queen to show the people how deeply routed english they were (or at least as english as frenchmen can be). He united the population by fighting against the "english" enemies: scots, french and of course jews (After he had collected horrendous taxes on them they couldn't pay any more, so hey decreed that every jew has to leave england or convert, otherwise the would be executed - which had a staggering support in the population). Needless to say that this backfired later on spectacularly because the rise of national identity in England gave way to the rise of national identity in Scotland and gave the needed impulse to get rid of the "english" (which were of course norman/french nobleman, EXACTLY like their scottish counterparts (William Wallace (Braveheart) as well as Robert the Bruce were originally from norman families who came to the isles together with William the Bastard)
    Of course Nazis were right-wing, that hasn't ever changed.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

  14. #274
    Deleted
    This thread is funny, can't believe how little people know of history / how much people make up to suit their own political agenda. We truly live in a post factual society.

  15. #275
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    this is 100% fucking wrong. hitler and the nazis only used the church to control the german people and had immense distrust of them and hitler wanted to just chuck the catholics and christians in camps but couldn't because of the strong religious sentiments in german society. he hated them. your teacher should be appalled. hitler hated religion.
    Probably somewhere in the middle. While Hitler wasn't a friend of the church, he never really dared to go against them as this would have cost him a lot of popular support (which was still needed). Also it is noteworthy that the Wehrmacht, though conservative and very authoritarian where somewhat appalled by the Nazis (which of course didn't really stop them from collaborating with Hitler), so "God with us" may probably have more to do with the Wehrmacht itself than the Nazis. On the other hand Hitler also wasn't a preacher of paganism and somewhat suspicious to Himmler and his cult of crazies.

  16. #276
    Centralized government power has nothing to do with American conservatism.

  17. #277
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BloodElf4Life View Post
    OP is mixing Left/Right with Authoritarian/Libertarian.

    Nazi were Center Authoritarian, not right nor left. They also weren't fascist. Please go read the definition of fascist.
    "Far-right politics

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Far-right politics are right-wing politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right.

    Far-right politics often involve a focus on tradition, real or imagined, as opposed to policies and customs that are regarded as reflective of modernism. Many far-right ideologies have a disregard or a disdain for egalitarianism, even if they do not always express overt support for social hierarchy, elements of social conservatism and opposition to most forms of liberalism and socialism.

    The term is commonly used to describe right-wing populist ideologies which is known for its espousal of extreme nationalism and its opposition to immigration, as well as its advocacy of Nazism, neo-Nazism, fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature extreme nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, or reactionary views, which can lead to oppression and violence against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the nation, state or ultraconservative traditional social institutions."

    That souds very much like a definition of the NSDAP ideology, so yeah... the nazis were as far right as it get's.

  18. #278
    NAZI

    National Socialism

    Its elements of the left and right, a lot of European countries are still Nat Socialist. Hell Israel is National Socialist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    Of course Nazis were right-wing, that hasn't ever changed.
    t. left winger

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Devonitar View Post
    So, all governments in non-christian, muslim or judaism countries are by definition left?
    I'm responding to the OP who said Nazis were right wing conservatives. I explained why they were not.

    Nice try on the deflect though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Only the loony fringe. The large majority of the Nazi party members were Christians and actually created a German Evangelical Church.
    If you mean the entire Socialist party that made up the Nazi party then yes you are correct.
    There is the sad paradox of a world which is more and more sensitive about being politically correct, almost to the point of ridicule, yet does not wish to acknowledge or to respect believers’ faith in God

  20. #280
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    It's hilarious how people think "national socilaist" is the same thing as socialist.

    Go wikipedia "socialism" then go wiki "national socialism". There's more differences between the two than stars.

    Ah but then you'll bitch that wikipedia is controlled by (((((((((((((((((them))))))))))))))))).
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