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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Let's say a player hires you to join a m+ run with him, pays you in in-game gold. Doesn't state any additional requirements than just do the dungeon.

    Before the last boss the timer expires and he gets all salty that it was supposed to be in-time (wasn't stated before the run) and demands the group to re-run it. Other people decline and leave before the last boss.

    He demands his gold back from you, even though you stayed and offered him either rerun it or half the gold back, he didn't agree on either, wants full sum and starts wishing you to get cancer. You leave and put him on ignore. Is that considered a scam?
    a scam ? definetly not .

    complete shit pseudo-boosters ? definetly yes.

  2. #22
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    That's not the only reason to run M+. Sometimes you're just trying to complete the dungeon so you can get a max ilvl item from the following week's chest.
    While I've done M+ to get the chest, in general, we go for clearing it in time. Of course, I do it with friends so if we fail, oh well. If I paid someone, I would expect we'd win.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Let's say a player hires you to join a m+ run with him, pays you in in-game gold. Doesn't state any additional requirements than just do the dungeon.

    Before the last boss the timer expires and he gets all salty that it was supposed to be in-time (wasn't stated before the run) and demands the group to re-run it. Other people decline and leave before the last boss.

    He demands his gold back from you, even though you stayed and offered him either rerun it or half the gold back, he didn't agree on either, wants full sum and starts wishing you to get cancer. You leave and put him on ignore. Is that considered a scam?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    To clarify:
    - I wasn't advertising a boost, a guy on trade chat was saying he's paying gold to join his m+ run and I took the offer.
    - Other 3 people were pugs, 2 of them from the same guild but last one from a different server.
    - I feel like I did my share like having to solo a boss after dps died from not doing mechanics (not breaking the link in time). I had 4 deaths across the dungeon while the top person had 13.
    Highlighted parts that seem to matter.

    This is in no way a scam. You did not solicit him. The conditions agreed upon were especially vague. The person paid up front without being specific, then was especially rude even when you tried to be fair with him. The only point of contention is whether or not he paid for a completed run, or simply to have people join him on a run. But that is 100% mitigated by his behavior after the run failed.

    IMO it's completely the fault of the guy paying for not being specific, not being more selective on who he chose to do the run, and for paying the full sum up front without any guarantees. The fact that his attitude turned bad later only cements the complete lack of sympathy that he deserves.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    And if you sell runs in the future, be up front about what you're selling. And don't come to a forum with half the story hoping to get people to tell you you did the right thing by stealing someone's gold.
    Dude you're hilarious. I wasn't selling any runs. A player listed on trade he's paying a specific amounts of gold for a tank, healer and dps to join his m+ key run "whisper class and ilvl" etc. I whispered him, he invited me and paid me. I intended to finish the run but people started making drama and in the end everyone else left, couldn't stop them from doing so and I didn't know these people, for me they were complete pugs. I tried to fulfill my part of the contract to the best of my capabilities, flasked, potted, had 3x the interrupt count than anyone else, 2-3 times less deaths, was no intent of mine to fuck him over but he started being rude and unreasonable in the end. He paid me to tank the dungeon and I tanked it. If I was him I wouldn't spam trade for pugs when so many guilds offer more reliable boosts, but I'm not him, neither I can control the other pugs what they're doing and them leaving at the last boss.

  5. #25
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    its like paying somone to do a job

    you pay somone to fix your car, they fuck up cant finish fixing it, do they go "eh i coudlent get it done, thanks for the money... bye!"
    no... no you dident scam them... but come on... when you join somone planning to carry them through m+ they odviously wanted to complete intime, and not completing in time is not completing the service they paid you for
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  6. #26
    It is a scam, give me one real world example of being paid without delivering the goods isn't considered a scam. Failing to specify it should have been in time is no excuse. If you buy a car the seller can't say "but you didn't specify it had to work".

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    its like paying somone to do a job
    If you pay a taxi driver to drive you to important meeting on time and he arrives late, do you get a refund?

    If you go to a doctor, he prescribes you medicine and it doesn't cure you, do you get a refund from the doctor or the pharmacy?

    If you hire a private tutor to teach your child and the child fails the exam do you get a refund?

  8. #28
    If someone is paying you to run them through a M+, you should know full well they expect you to beat the timer. A M+ isn't technically complete if you don't beat the timer. You trying to claim that they didn't specifically spell out that the timer had to be beaten means you're the one trying to scam the buyer. Or to break it down into a more simplistic example, would you expect to pay for a pizza that showed up 2 hours late and cold? Of course not, but I doubt you specify that your pizza must be delivered in a certain time. That reasonable time frame is implied when you placed the order.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    If you pay a taxi driver to drive you to important meeting on time and he arrives late, do you get a refund?

    If you go to a doctor, he prescribes you medicine and it doesn't cure you, do you get a refund from the doctor or the pharmacy?

    If you hire a private tutor to teach your child and the child fails the exam do you get a refund?
    See the example I just posted above. As for your examples:

    When you hire a taxi, there is an expectation that they will get you to your destination in a reasonable amount of time. If you fail to get there in that time, and it's the driver's fault, you absolutely can dispute having to pay them.

    If your doctor makes a mistake in their treatment, that's called malpractice and not only do you not have to pay, you can sue.

    If you hire a tutor and they don't bother to teach your child what you paid them to teach, you can absolutely go after them for a refund.

    Hiring a player to run you through a M+ always means beating the timer. That's because a M+ is never completed if the timer is not beat. If you don't beat the timer, you fail the dungeon, therefore no payment is due.
    Last edited by Slicer299; 2017-01-23 at 03:10 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    its like paying somone to do a job

    you pay somone to fix your car, they fuck up cant finish fixing it, do they go "eh i coudlent get it done, thanks for the money... bye!"
    no... no you dident scam them... but come on... when you join somone planning to carry them through m+ they odviously wanted to complete intime, and not completing in time is not completing the service they paid you for
    Yeah, execpt in this case he paid 4 random people to do a job. The guy in question here did his best under the terms agreed, and was not at fault for the failure according to the info he's given. He even offered to meet halfway when things went sour despite not having to do so at all. Then the person paying lost their shit and tried to get angry about things that weren't agreed upon.

    I don't see anything wrong with the OPs behavior(assuming he's giving us a truthful account).

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    I'm kinda baffled that some people are actually defending the buyer here. This is not a premade group carrying someone. It's a bunch of randoms who don't know each other being paid to run someone. How is it the OP's fault that the buyer hired other incompetent runners? Why is it okay for the buyer to be able to waste OP's free time?

    The OP did his job. He joined the group and according to him, he performed his role. He was NOT paid to beat a timer on his own. He was paid to waste his time for the sake of another and perform his specific role, both of which happened.

    He even offered to give half back or a re-run, which is way more than generous.

    And some of these comparisons you guys are making are downright stupid. You're comparing the job of 1 (or 1 organization) to his situation which was the job of many. It's like some of you are under the idea that you're entitled to waste people's free time.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    If I paid someone, I would expect we'd win.
    Even if you didn't bother to check the person's credentials or achievements first?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    With the information presented here, we can't know. If the buyer said why they wanted the run, and that required beating the timer, and the sellers didn't make it clear they weren't garaunteeing beating the timer, then the sellers did mislead the buyer.
    The level and the amount of gold also matter in whether or not this was a scam.

    Seller didn't deliver on what they promised in exchange for the gold. And then put the buyer on ignore. It may or may not have been intended as a scam, but it resulted in the seller stealing the gold. If you want be in the right, then return all the gold. And if you sell runs in the future, be up front about what you're selling. And don't come to a forum with half the story hoping to get people to tell you you did the right thing by stealing someone's gold.
    You honestly need to learn some reading comprehension

    The only thing We have to Go on right now is:
    The buyer Was advertising in Trade for People to join his mythic plus run for gold. That is all the op agreed to. If you Go out there and spend gold without laying your terms its 100% your own fault.
    Last edited by mmocfe2bab4c21; 2017-01-23 at 04:34 AM.

  13. #33
    a) Why would anyone buy a boost, when there's hundreds of boost groups going on at any given time (as high as 15s atm).

    b) Why accept gold for a boost when you aren't able to do it on time? When i sold Challenge Modes on WoD we'd sure as fuck guarantee completing it on time, after practicing the run with 4 players, to ensure that even with the worst player ever, we'd make it. If something went really off, like a disconnect or something, we'd re-run it or just give back the gold for the particular run.

    c) It all depends on the terms of the deal. Sometimes people just want to get boosted to complete a 10 or 12, or whatever, to improve the weekly chest... but if the dude wanted the timer to be beat... you should return the gold if you failed, and u arent willing to try again.

  14. #34

  15. #35
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Even if you didn't bother to check the person's credentials or achievements first?
    I would probably check them ahead of time, I have no idea if this guy did or not. The OP didn't say.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    its like paying somone to do a job

    you pay somone to fix your car, they fuck up cant finish fixing it, do they go "eh i coudlent get it done, thanks for the money... bye!"
    no... no you dident scam them... but come on... when you join somone planning to carry them through m+ they odviously wanted to complete intime, and not completing in time is not completing the service they paid you for

    You invented the word carry in this context. It wasn't agreed he should be carried nor does it have to be the op's fault, it might aswell be the three other random dps fault.

    The only one to blame is the buyer

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I would probably check them ahead of time, I have no idea if this guy did or not. The OP didn't say.
    I think that's the crux of the matter. It sounds like the person paying just picked 4 random people and paid them under a flawed assumption. Or wasn't clear of the intent. Assuming, as you said, if the OP is giving us all the info.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think that's the crux of the matter. It sounds like the person paying just picked 4 random people and paid them under a flawed assumption. Or wasn't clear of the intent. Assuming, as you said, if the OP is giving us all the info.
    This exactly. With the information we have the only one to blame is the buyer for not laying down his terms. It also sounds absurd to buy a boost from 4 random people instead of a group. It would be nice with some more info from the op

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans
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    Was this a scam? No as long as the person hired played to the best of their ability.

    Is the buyer right to expect a refund? No because they only hired one person. As soon as the pug players joined the group all expectations of an on-time clear should have been canceled.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    b) Why accept gold for a boost when you aren't able to do it on time? When i sold Challenge Modes on WoD we'd sure as fuck guarantee completing it on time, after practicing the run with 4 players, to ensure that even with the worst player ever, we'd make it. If something went really off, like a disconnect or something, we'd re-run it or just give back the gold for the particular run.
    Paying someone to fill a spot is not the same as paying a premade group to carry you.

    It's like hiring a tank for instant dungeon queues back in the day (not sure if people still do it, but not the point). The tank is there for two reasons - to get you that instant queue and to perform his job as tank. He is not there to solo the dungeon for you if it's not possible to solo the dungeon for you. So if the group dies a lot and you ask for a refund, despite the tank doing his job, then he has every right to tell you no.

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