Anyone really dislike this state of Frost?

[Deleted]

Its standard practice for those with fragile egos to denigrate things they can't do/aren't good at, rather than put in the effort required to learn, which requires....effort.

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it was significantly more complicated to maintain and required the Chains of Ice glyph, which added some degree of decision making (damage vs mitigation).

Has nothing to do with not wanting to learn but rather not enjoying the playstyle. I pay for this game to have fun and raid with my friends, as long as I am competetive I dont care. And UH has its charms too.

[Amalkatrazz]

You do need super long breathes to minimize the time in which you're doing shit damage. Without belt/ring your second breathe will always be shit because you dont have HRW so youre forced to sit on it for 1m while HRW cools down. With ring this problem goes away. The downtime between breathe windows is so fucking boring it puts me to sleep. And this notion being perpetuated that its more important to get stronger breathe windows than longer ones makes no sense. By virtue of getting a longer breatge you get more fallen crusader procs, and you get a chance yo use a second PoF.

Legendaries are a massive dps increase for breathe. They give you longer and stronger burst window.

Yes it does. A 40-sec breath combined with PoF, HoV, potion, trinket procs, the Infernal Armor Set proc (Shoulders from AW + Breastplate from CoS), etc. will do more damage than a 60-sec breath combined with nothing from the above.

[Akusa202]

Yes it does. A 40-sec breath combined with PoF, HoV, potion, trinket procs, the Infernal Armor Set proc (Shoulders from AW + Breastplate from CoS), etc. will do more damage than a 60-sec breath combined with nothing from the above.

That's such stupid thinking. Why would you compare a short breath with cds and trinkets popped with a longer breath with nothing at all? You think that if someone has the legendaries to maintain long breathes they are just going to sit on all of their cds and not use them during breath? Someone with BoS legendaries has exactly the same tools to use during breath as someone without the correct legendaries, except on use trinkets, cos set pieces, etc. But all those can be farmed easier than the correct legendaries. Sure, someone without correct BoS legendaries can do competitive damage with the build is they maximize damage during burst window, but someone with the correct legendaries that can sustain longer durations will always do significantly more assuming they are also maximizing damage during breath.

[Amalkatrazz]

That's such stupid thinking. Why would you compare a short breath with cds and trinkets popped with a longer breath with nothing at all? You think that if someone has the legendaries to maintain long breathes they are just going to sit on all of their cds and not use them during breath? Someone with BoS legendaries has exactly the same tools to use during breath as someone without the correct legendaries, except on use trinkets, cos set pieces, etc. But all those can be farmed easier than the correct legendaries. Sure, someone without correct BoS legendaries can do competitive damage with the build is they maximize damage during burst window, but someone with the correct legendaries that can sustain longer durations will always do significantly more assuming they are also maximizing damage during breath.

The point I am trying to make is that burst windows are more important than just duration by itself. There is no denying that the right legendaries that enable higher BoS uptimes are very beneficial for this build; but some people believe that the ring-belt combo is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost of BoS output, and that's exactly what I am willing to disprove. Those legendaries are very good indeed, but it is entirely possible to parse high (95% or more per WCL) without them.

Oh, btw, the CoF trinket actually allows to have consistently long BoSes without having the ring, and is definitely easier to obtain. Of course, the ring enables extra-long BoS due to the ability it provides to cast HRW twice in a short window; that, however, isn't going to be your most desirable course of action in many encounters (to stay a minute a longer on the boss without losing even a second of attack uptime is a rare option these days). Remember that fighting a boss is a different story than just pulling big-boom numbers on a lvl 102 dummy in Acherus.

To sum it up: the legendaries are good, but BoS isn't bad without them either.

[Coldvibes]

I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty funny seeing all the DKs who thought they were hot shit turn to garbage when BoS became a thing, and unsurprisingly, the DKs that stuck through HFC adapting to it are prospering now.

[Wolfman31]

I like the BoS playstyle, but I wish they didn't feel inclined to nerf the other build in the process. Between Runic Attenuation and Runic Empowerment, the Icy Talons build is dead in the water now, forcing us to either go BoS or do less dps than before the patch. I thought Blizzard's goal was to give us other options, but nerfing our main option just to make the new option look more appealing was rather idiotic. They seem to care more about the pseudo-psychology behind class balancing instead of the actual class balancing itself. So while I like BoS, I definitely feel for people who don't. Your only option is to learn to like it or pray for Unholy bracers. Or you can just wait for the next cycle of idiotic balance changes because you know it's only inevitable that they break BoS again in favor of another talent they think we should be using this month.

[Deleted]

I like the BoS playstyle, but I wish they didn't feel inclined to nerf the other build in the process. Between Runic Attenuation and Runic Empowerment, the Icy Talons build is dead in the water now, forcing us to either go BoS or do less dps than before the patch. I thought Blizzard's goal was to give us other options, but nerfing our main option just to make the new option look more appealing was rather idiotic. They seem to care more about the pseudo-psychology behind class balancing instead of the actual class balancing itself. So while I like BoS, I definitely feel for people who don't. Your only option is to learn to like it or pray for Unholy bracers. Or you can just wait for the next cycle of idiotic balance changes because you know it's only inevitable that they break BoS again in favor of another talent they think we should be using this month.

Spot on. Sadly looking at the logs I don't see them buffing us anytime soon because breath performs so well with proper items, Im sure its good fun with good legendaries and 4pc.

[Ald]

I've always been a bigger fan of consistent damage over dumping everything we have into smaller windows and then tapering off. In that regard i despise the BoS play style. However, i like giving players options and not forcing them down one path. If BoS becomes an option rather than the go to playstyle, then i'm fine with it. The players that love it can have their fun and the players that don't aren't punished for it.

[Deleted]

Former UH lover here. UH feels too slow for me now, so switched to BoS and I LOVE IT.

Also, my UH bracers are in my bank. Don't know what to do with them.

[bubbadubba]

What i dont like is that i basically cant even play BoS without ring/belt. I can get at most 45-50 second breathes without these legendaries.

You don't need the belt/ring to be viable. The helm and bracers are extremely strong with BoS. A lot of high parses are using that combo.

[Deleted]

You had to press Chains of Ice because it has a glyph that made it generate 10 extra runic power so you could extend BoS infintely with Chains of Ice

However you were still tanking the boss at the time so you had to balance between Death Strike and Chains of Ice (and Blood Boil if you wanted to do damage to 2+ targets). You also had to manage Plague Leech and Blood Tap at the same time so it became a real juggling act.

Kept the -Blood- flowing

23/06/2015 - The day fun died.

[Saltysquidoon]

I don't like BoS on a very basic level I think it runs against the core design of the rune system and would be akin to asking rogues to pool combo points (That's crotchety oldman me talking though).
Game-play wise it feels quite dull out side of BoS window's you're pretty much playing frost with no talents.

[Deleted]

I've got the leg-Ring and I use the second charge on the second Breath.
The second Breath got PoF and maybe Potion (save for Hero if not used at pull) ready and therefor it will benefit more from a the second charge to make sure the breath will def. up for the whole PoF uptime.
And then for a third breath another HRW will be rdy.

Using BoS with stacking CDs is the most DPS you can get.

[Schizoide]

I don't like this version of BoS because it's too powerful. BoS should be high risk/high reward, as it was back in WoD. If you have the skill and luck to get very high uptime that should offer spectacular damage (and it does). But conversely, if you screw it up you should absolutely be in the doghouse. That isn't the case right now-- it is the de facto superior build and playstyle for all situations. Simply due to number tuning, BoS is minimal risk/high reward.

It's still too early to say for sure, but indications are that Frost DK isn't overpowered even with BoS based on its WCL rankings today. It's a strong spec, but not top-end or an outlier. So nerfing BoS is hard to support right now. Instead, Obliteration should be buffed until it is substantially better on single targets (That's all it works on! And it loses!) and Glacial Advance should be buffed until it's a much better choice on 3 or more targets only.

And if you get <40s on your BoS, you should feel like hanging your head in shame, because your rankings should suck.

[Hoeth]

I double clicked BoS twice last night on Botanist. Got exactly ZERO damage from it. Twice.

That felt good.

[TiagoRamos]

Former UH lover here. UH feels too slow for me now, so switched to BoS and I LOVE IT.

Also, my UH bracers are in my bank. Don't know what to do with them.

Shame on you... bracers in bank?
Go to UH ffs. Still feels slow with soulreaper and 21% haste? -_-

[Deleted]

I double clicked BoS twice last night on Botanist. Got exactly ZERO damage from it. Twice.

That felt good.

You have to make a macro:

/cast !Breath of Sindragosa

with the ! you can only cast it but a second click won't interrupt it.

[Nemesquish]

They need to put RE back to 2%, But after you get 2 pc, Frost feels basically the same as before the "fix".

Imo, this is the best Frost has ever played since this class came out. Damage needs to be tuned up a little in certain areas. (Like us only being "good" on Gul'dan due to Rime hitting all the eyes"

[Hctaz]

You do need super long breathes to minimize the time in which you're doing shit damage. Without belt/ring your second breathe will always be shit because you dont have HRW so youre forced to sit on it for 1m while HRW cools down. With ring this problem goes away. The downtime between breathe windows is so fucking boring it puts me to sleep. And this notion being perpetuated that its more important to get stronger breathe windows than longer ones makes no sense. By virtue of getting a longer breatge you get more fallen crusader procs, and you get a chance yo use a second PoF.

Legendaries are a massive dps increase for breathe. They give you longer and stronger burst window.

You're wrong though. I mean, sure, to compare to other frost dk's it can be pretty big but the ring is arguably not even the top two legendary items and the belt doesn't always give you that juicy extension (I do have that one). I hardly ever get more than 1 minute long breaths unless my belt carries me but I usually end up doing well compared to other classes. Will I lose to a dk with Belt/ring? Probably, but I'd also lose to a dk with bracers/helm or helm/ring etc. My Sephuz doesn't always help as much as I would like.

It isn't about the duration of the breath, it's about what you can do during the time it's up that matters (which is why the bracers might be better than ring)

[exeetor]

Im sticking with OB/RA build. If I get the helm I will prob swap to a spec that revolves around that instead but I wont go BoS.
I just despise the gameplay. Blow everything at the start. Make one mistake and u loose out 100-200k dps on the fight. Also ur stuck to the boss and cant help out on other stuff (run to CR someone for example).
OB/RA feels way more flexible and as it is now it does do decent in dmg even thou BoS is better by far.