Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Deleted]

With 2 piece tier I sometimes miss my Nightblade Finality window and lose the buff entirely cause of pandemic not being ready. I might just swap to Anticipation to get rid of that 6 cp + 12 duration to make sure I hit everything.

Anyone else experiencing this problem?

How can you let Finality NB buff expire? You need to pandemic it (refresh at 30% or close as you can). I dont know what is this "Pandemic not being ready" situation. If you are letting Nightblade debuff expire normally then you arent maximizing your DPS.

[DeadDream]

How can you let Finality NB buff expire? You need to pandemic it (refresh at 30% or close as you can). I dont know what is this "Pandemic not being ready" situation. If you are letting Nightblade debuff expire normally then you arent maximizing your DPS.

Actually refreshing Finality:NB with a non-buffed NB is a DPS loss. However you should account for that and refresh at the exact same time as NB drops/right after NB drops.

[Deleted]

Actually refreshing Finality:NB with a non-buffed NB is a DPS loss. However you should account for that and refresh at the exact same time as NB drops/right after NB drops.

Thats why I said Finality NB BUFF (on you) not the DEBUFF. It is not clear if Kwakman is actually letting the augmented NB to expire and then refresh with a normal NB or he is letting the self buff to expire.

[DeadDream]

Thats why I said Finality NB BUFF (on you) not the DEBUFF. It is not clear if Kwakman is actually letting the augmented NB to expire and then refresh with a normal NB or he is letting the self buff to expire.

I assume he lets the Finality buff to expire due to 2 pieces of a tier, which increases maximum NB duration to 32 seconds with pandemic refresh, while Finality lasts 25. But I personally don't see any circumstances that may lead to Finality expiration.

[solaceofwinter]

So are they doing the shadowdance change or no?

[elfporn]

So are they doing the shadowdance change or no?

The what? /10char

[RobertoCarlos]

So are they doing the shadowdance change or no?

That ship has sailed. Rogues never get a rework mid expansion or at all, even if sub desperately needs it.

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The what? /10char

Gotten into trouble raiding at all with the auto teleport with shadowstrike?

[elfporn]

That ship has sailed. Rogues never get a rework mid expansion or at all, even if sub desperately needs it.

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Gotten into trouble raiding at all with the auto teleport with shadowstrike?

Heh, on occasion.

[RobertoCarlos]

Heh, on occasion.

I thought of dabbling with Sub. As not many specs atm are good at both ST and AOE which sub can excel at.

But as long as it has that auto teleport its doomed imo. Also for pvp. With unlimited mobility it will never do damage.

[Deleted]

I thought of dabbling with Sub. As not many specs atm are good at both ST and AOE which sub can excel at.

But as long as it has that auto teleport its doomed imo. Also for pvp. With unlimited mobility it will never do damage.

ye right.
*throw in DH*
*throw in WW*

[Kortiah]

AOE which sub can excel at

What..?

We're one of the worst spec to AoE... Except if you need to do one burst AoE every 30sec and you have the leg cloak.

[shaunika123]

What..?

We're one of the worst spec to AoE... Except if you need to do one burst AoE every 30sec and you have the leg cloak.

it's not as bad as you think, but you're right we also dont "excel" at it, with the cloak it is great tho
in a situation where there's stuff to AOE and one priority target sub is very good, it might not do the most AOE, but it does decent AOE with insane ST (1.5-2 mil evises every 2nd global arent too shabby)

and the 2pc bonus basically makes our cleave insanely good

[Deleted]

it's not as bad as you think, but you're right we also dont "excel" at it, with the cloak it is great tho
in a situation where there's stuff to AOE and one priority target sub is very good, it might not do the most AOE, but it does decent AOE with insane ST (1.5-2 mil evises every 2nd global arent too shabby)

This is very true. I'm always really happy on the second boss of Eye of Azshara when people fail to kill the blobs with the curse, get those eviscerates spamming!

[Kortiah]

it's not as bad as you think, but you're right we also dont "excel" at it, with the cloak it is great tho
in a situation where there's stuff to AOE and one priority target sub is very good, it might not do the most AOE, but it does decent AOE with insane ST (1.5-2 mil evises every 2nd global arent too shabby)

and the 2pc bonus basically makes our cleave insanely good

I can assure you I get dumped on by almost any other classes when it comes to pure AoE (not talking cleave. Cleave's super sweet with the 2pc indeed). But Skorp's AoE or Gul'dan's P2 eyes? No way I can pull equal next to DHs/Mages without Cloak/Shoulders.

I love AoE, but for the ST dps it provides. The AoE damage in itself is very lackluster (Second Shuriken is a joke let's be honest...)

[shaunika123]

I can assure you I get dumped on by almost any other classes when it comes to pure AoE (not talking cleave. Cleave's super sweet with the 2pc indeed). But Skorp's AoE or Gul'dan's P2 eyes? No way I can pull equal next to DHs/Mages without Cloak/Shoulders.

yeah, i said you wouldnt, but if you compare yourself to our DH and mage overlords you'll be in a perpetual state of disappointment

[Diyiez]

I am one piece away from 4set, but i dont think i will be switching away from stratagem until i get CoF. CP overflowing does get pretty bad during shadow blades, and it will even worse with ghe set, but i dont feel the upside is enough to switch from Stratagem. How do you guys feel about that?

And on a side note, Nighthold is a great great raid for sub. Lots and lots of cleaving and st, and we are pretty beast at that with the 2piece. Get a nightblade relic or two and go to town.

[Kortiah]

I am one piece away from 4set, but i dont think i will be switching away from stratagem until i get CoF. CP overflowing does get pretty bad during shadow blades, and it will even worse with ghe set, but i dont feel the upside is enough to switch from Stratagem. How do you guys feel about that?

And on a side note, Nighthold is a great great raid for sub. Lots and lots of cleaving and st, and we are pretty beast at that with the 2piece. Get a nightblade relic or two and go to town.

I played half a night with DS + 4p, and after doing a full night with Anticipation instead I can say for sure that's it's waaaay better.

You lose either a LOT of Shadowstrikes during SD because you'd max CP and have to do a second finisher, or a lot of combo because you still want to 4SS1Finisher during SD.

[Teaklog]

have you ever had WM proc evis? cos im pretty sure it doesnt work on it.
it's always an extra 10-15 on shadowstrike but never evis

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=60
check it out not a single evis proc on our sub rogue


but yeah anticip only sims higher for me if i have the setbonus as well

I did, but I haven't played my rogue since november.

It may affect Goremaw's bite though. I also remembering it showing up as a separate evisterate cast, as opposed to "Weaponmaster." Maybe go to a dummy and cast say 50 eviserates while taking logging it. Then if the log shows up with more than 50 eviscerates we know. Or just watch combat log as you cast them (lol)

[elfporn]

I can assure you I get dumped on by almost any other classes when it comes to pure AoE (not talking cleave. Cleave's super sweet with the 2pc indeed). But Skorp's AoE or Gul'dan's P2 eyes? No way I can pull equal next to DHs/Mages without Cloak/Shoulders.

I love AoE, but for the ST dps it provides. The AoE damage in itself is very lackluster (Second Shuriken is a joke let's be honest...)

Have you taken a look at boss only dps? sub rogues should easily be top seeing as how our aoe is funneled.

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I am one piece away from 4set, but i dont think i will be switching away from stratagem until i get CoF. CP overflowing does get pretty bad during shadow blades, and it will even worse with ghe set, but i dont feel the upside is enough to switch from Stratagem. How do you guys feel about that?

And on a side note, Nighthold is a great great raid for sub. Lots and lots of cleaving and st, and we are pretty beast at that with the 2piece. Get a nightblade relic or two and go to town.

You should have switched as soon as 7.1.5 came out. The difference between ds and anticipation is negligible without 4p/cof, it's huge if you have those or bracers.

[Dwarda]

Hey guys, how are you guys playing around the 4 set? It seems like its very hard not to waste CP generated by our RNG 4 set. Should I switch to anticipation over DS? If I stay with DS, should I be using 4 point finisher so I don't potentially waste a CP, if I do that, I feel like DS wouldn't be too big of a DPS gain. What are everyone's thoughts?