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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Clearly you are remembering an alternative version of events.
    I spit out my drink to this, 10/10

  2. #82
    To me, its not necessarily the relentless backpedaling of campaign promises. I find it amusing, sure, but wriggling out of campaign pledges, either by backpedaling, token effort that might result in some legislative tweaks but no overall substantial change to an issue, or simply ignoring it, is bread and butter to US politics. At most they'll pour all their effort into one primary issue which drains all their political capital and anything else gets left by the wayside.

    To me its more the bizarre need for Trump, and by extension members of his administration, to lie over and over again about trivial bullshit. This is a non-issue that affects nothing, why are you feeding the public an outright lie for no damn reason? This isn't political obfuscation, its a lie for no reason other than to lie, in service of nothing.

  3. #83
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Doesn't even have to be Hillary. Trump is a straight up liar, and I'm getting sick of the fact none of the main stream press is calling him out on that. Look at Kellyanne Conway and her 'Alternative facts' bull. Facts and the truth don't matter to him, he lives in his own world. He's delusional.
    I just like to point at Hillary's death defying Parkinson's. I spent so many days on here explaining that they are being fooled by selective clipping and reality was staring at them, even during DNC primaries. To get 'well mah pappy had it'... it's an indirect and broad way of my shoving a dogs face in shit, so he doesn't shit all over the house again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    To me its more the bizarre need for Trump, and by extension members of his administration, to lie over and over again about trivial bullshit. This is a non-issue that affects nothing, why are you feeding the public an outright lie for no damn reason? This isn't political obfuscation, its a lie for no reason other than to lie, in service of nothing.
    That's not bizarre at all, it's the basis of all conditioning psychology. You provide positive reinforcement, so the action is repeated to get the reword again. Every person trying to ignore or deflect from it, is like giving a puppy a treat for shitting all over the house.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by swisscheese View Post
    Everybody lies, end of story*
    Politicians are liars, that's how they get elected. People cannot handle being told reality.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You might need to explain your reason for saying Wikileaks. Because it sure as hell seems like to distract from Trump's lying, which is kinda the big accusation of Wikileaks during elections.
    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/823217610095558656

    Trump's breach of promise over the release of his tax returns is even more gratuitous than Clinton concealing her Goldman Sachs transcripts.
    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/823212055322853382

    Trump Counselor Kellyanne Conway stated today that Trump will not release his tax returns. Send them to: https://wikileaks.org/#submit so we can.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    is like giving a puppy a treat for shitting all over the house.
    Is... is that not right? Should I not be doing that?

  7. #87
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    Politicians are liars, that's how they get elected. People cannot handle being told reality.
    Everyone is a liar, it's no reason to ignore when lying happens and ignoring the issue being lied about because of it, is not at all handling reality.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  8. #88
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Dragonheart View Post
    He's not obligated to keep his promises... This actually happens quite often in the US, and I'm not even joking about it...

    This is why I believe that people should be given a right to vote on specific laws and government actions instead of people to impose these things with no standard in place to make them do as they promised.
    Direct Democracy. We can build it, we have the technology.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Direct Democracy. We can build it, we have the technology.
    And it would suck, a lot

  10. #90
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Yes, and the free press has been telling you for a god damn year that he had no reason to not show them and that he wouldn't. You waited until after the inauguration? To report the same news reported by the free press? You know, the fake news...

    Again, you didn't explain the reason to bring up Wikileaks. Their twitter account has less information than the actual story on every free press publication.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #91
    geez don't be so naive. All politicians lie.

  12. #92
    Every single politician does this. Everywhere in the world.

    "We're going to close Guantanamo. And we're going to restore habeas corpus," Obama says. "We're going to lead by example—not just by word but by deed. That's our vision for the future." (2007)

    The only difference I see is that Trump could have shown that he is no politician by indeed persuing his promises, and in fact draining the political swamp. But it looks like he is just adapted to being politician-

  13. #93
    'Art of the Deal' tactics. Make bold, exaggerated claims to get peoples' attention and then negotiate it down to something reasonable.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinD View Post
    So, first of all, I don't live in the US and I am not a Trump supporter. But the news over here (Europe) seems to show a picture of someone that keeps going back on his own words. Now I am interested if this is also reported in the US itself or if it is no big deal over there.

    The latest example was only yesterday when it was in our national news that Trump will not give us his tax returns while he did promise he would after some "audit" he said prevented him during the election. Now the news reports he says only the media wants this, at the same time it was said that 75% of democrats and 52% of republicans still wanted his tax returns.

    Another example was how during the election he kept saying that one of the first things he would do is put Clinton in jail (or at least open a investigation) yet it was reported here that he asked for a standing applause for Bill and Hillary during his inauguration.

    Now I searched online and found more examples here:
    http://reverbpress.com/politics/15-b...les-migraines/

    Do people, and in particular, republicans, not care about these broken promises or is it being dismissed as "not important"?
    I am trying to think of any President in recent History that kept all their election vows. I laugh at promises, hopes and dreams that people put faith in.

  15. #95
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    When do politicians keep any of their pre-election vows? And Trump doesn't seem like the most trustworthy fellow even before he went into politics.


    Politics are a game where you spew as much bullshit as the public likes to hear to get them vote for you. After you have won, you can pretty much do whatever you please.
    This pretty much...all politicians lie

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, and the free press has been telling you for a god damn year that he had no reason to not show them and that he wouldn't. You waited until after the inauguration? To report the same news reported by the free press? You know, the fake news...

    Again, you didn't explain the reason to bring up Wikileaks. Their twitter account has less information than the actual story on every free press publication.
    Um... Wikileaks has been asking for the tax reports well before the election. In fact, back in August, Assange had a video interview, claiming that Wikileaks was hoping a whistleblower would leak the information of Trump's tax returns.

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/761937233356128256

    WikiLeaks isn't 'working on' hacking Trump's tax-returns. Claim is a joke from a comedy show. We are 'working on' encouraging whistleblowers
    For once, people jumping to conclusion is a good thing, because we have a Tweet with a date clarifying what was meant in the video.

    So no, I didn't wait after the election. In fact it was asked well before and as I've stated time and time again, I am as interested in the GOP/RNC than the DNC/Podesta's.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  17. #97
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Clearly you are remembering an alternative version of events.
    I prefer to think of this as a Neo-Surrealist rebellion against a world that is evermore well-defined by reason and empirical observation.

    People are growing tired of knowing things, and needing to know things - enter Donald Trump from stage left, a cartoon character with cartoon personality - who better to lead the Neo-Surrealists to the promised land but a man who has been there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    pls no. The people have thoroughly demonstrated this election why that would be terrible. The last thing we need is the rabble getting mad and thinking they know how to fix things.
    I disagree, I still believe in voters - but I also believe that most didn't vote.

    Were I to do full reform, it would go far beyond just direct democracy.

    Mandatory voter participation, you can go to the polls and click "Abstain" - but you can't not vote: you get a fine if you don't.

    Electronic voting. You can vote from your phone like American Idol: Text, "YES" to 69696 to Invade Iraq again.

    Direct Democracy. Elected bureaucrats entrusted to enact the will of the people, but there is no longer any need for politicians - all fired. Because there are no longer districts or etc - it's all popular vote.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    He nominated an Exxon executive as Secretary of State. Replaced a nuclear physicist with Rick Perry in DOE. Appointed Linda McMahon in small businesses administration, with only credential being top Trump Foundation donor, second to Trump him self.

    In a way this is in the eye of the beholder, because being blind is a perspective as well.
    Not to mention how Trump campaigned against the evils of Goldman Sachs in his ads, and then filled his cabinet with Goldman employees.

    Oh, and after railing on Hillary for speaking to Goldman employees, too.
    Last edited by BrerBear; 2017-01-23 at 05:04 PM.
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  19. #99
    Elemental Lord Lady Dragonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Direct Democracy. We can build it, we have the technology.
    "In theory," but yes.
    I am both the Lady of Dusk, Vheliana Nightwing & Dark Priestess of Lust, Loreleî Legace!
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  20. #100
    just imagine if you guys had scrutinized obama this hard.......we might have stopped him from wiretapping us all and doubled the national debt

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