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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral LaserChild9's Avatar
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    If BC had never introduced flying...

    So I see a lot of these flying threads about and I was wondering, what if they had never introduced flying in BC? What if when they were developing it, it was an idea that they had discussed but ultimately for one reason or another had decided against. Lets be honest, it seems like Blizzard thought it was a mistake to introduce flying being as they now gate it behind patches and achievements, but would wow have been as successful if they hadn't? Is it something people would still ask for?

  2. #2
    There is no telling what happens in an alternative universe. Everyone could be monkeys, or they might not care about flying, they might never have considered it a possibility, they might have all quit due to the lack of flying, Trump might have become president of the USA, no one knows.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans The Flavour Cat's Avatar
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    Hard to say, although flying is pretty insignificant in the long run and people play the games for other reasons. Flying's just a (faster) means to an end so I think only the really lazy people would have quit.
    Isn't it ironic how education is important, yet people forget all about it when they visit the internet?

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral LaserChild9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    There is no telling what happens in an alternative universe. Everyone could be monkeys, or they might not care about flying, they might never have considered it a possibility, they might have all quit due to the lack of flying, Trump might have become president of the USA, no one knows.
    I know we will never know and its all theoretical, but I'm just curious if people want flying because they have already had it, or because its a good idea. I feel like its because they have already had it because if they hadn't they would not have ever known any different.

  5. #5
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserChild9 View Post
    So I see a lot of these flying threads about and I was wondering, what if they had never introduced flying in BC? What if when they were developing it, it was an idea that they had discussed but ultimately for one reason or another had decided against. Lets be honest, it seems like Blizzard thought it was a mistake to introduce flying being as they now gate it behind patches and achievements, but would wow have been as successful if they hadn't? Is it something people would still ask for?
    Then people would be whining for it now, I think, as other games adds it.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #6
    We'd not have had BC and LK the way they were, as those two expansions required flying.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  7. #7
    iirc flying was one of the major selling points of the expansion, I remember that video of the guy doing loop-de-loops on a drake and then to actually be able to do that you had to use a console command to remove the deadzone in the camera i can't remember the actual command but it let the camera do full 360 degree loops.

    edit: thats it /console pitchlimit 999 (88 is default if you try it)
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-01-23 at 07:42 PM.

  8. #8
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    WoW probably wouldn't have hit 12 million

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    The problem is that the game would have been done differently. Skettis would not have existed, or at least it would have required a FP. Same for Storm Peaks in LK. Icecrown in LK would have to have been totally reworked as its not really traversable on land. The Tempest Keep instances would have required some way to get to and from them.

    Some of this is easy - teleports, FPs, etc. Some probably would have needed a lot of redo. Obviously, we'd not have drakes and other things that really need flying to make sense available as mounts.

    it would have also restricted zone design - at a certain size, it's practically abusive to ride across zones on land (I think of the thorim/frost giant quests that had me move across Storm Peaks multiple times).

    Ultimately, though, the no flight thing would have made the game more tedious. People who are anti-flight... well... ask this - if flight was so bad, why did they play during the 8 years it was in the game at max level?

  10. #10
    It wouldn't have flying, and zones like Storm Peaks and the like would never have been put into the game. Also exclude every mount designed as a flying mount.

    That's about it. It has had flying for longer than it did not have it though, so people wanting an MMORPG that doesn't allow flight for whatever reason can kindly gtfo to one of the mmo's that shares the sentiment.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by LaserChild9 View Post
    I know we will never know and its all theoretical, but I'm just curious if people want flying because they have already had it, or because its a good idea. I feel like its because they have already had it because if they hadn't they would not have ever known any different.
    It's going to depend a lot on who you ask. Flying can serve many purposes, including:

    -Getting to your destination faster
    -Seeing the terrain from a new an interesting viewpoint
    -Greater control over where you go
    -Avoiding enemies you do not wish to fight
    -Providing new and interesting mounts to collect (some mounts just don't make much sense without the ability to fly)

    When I look at WoW, and then look at other open world games, a lot of games achieve many of the goals that WoW achieved with flight through different means.

    -Final Fantasy XIV has limited flight in the newest zones, but nothing like a flying mount. However, travel between their version of flight paths is instant.
    -Rift had ground mounts, and like FFXIV, has instant travel between portals instead of flying mounts.
    -Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have mounts, but offers instant travel to waypoints all over the world and faster movement outside of combat.
    -Many single-player games include a "Fast Travel" system to instantly travel back to a previously visited location

    There are many people who don't like the fast travel system, but it manages to accomplish one of the most desirable points of flying mounts (getting where you want to go faster) without any of their potential negatives. In Single Player RPGs I'm less likely to use Fast Travel a lot of the time, but in MMOs you go back to do zones and content so many times that the exploration factor quickly diminishes... I'd gladly give up flying in WoW forever if they replaced flight paths with instant travel between the flight path points.


    ... I think, in the end, if they never introduced flight, they would probably have introduced mechanics like the flight master's whistle a good bit sooner than they did. WoW still has more dead time getting from point A to point B than I experience in pretty much any other game I play, and it doesn't make the game feel like a world, it just encourages me to keep interesting web pages and the like on hand to look at while I'm waiting to get to where I'm going.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    iirc flying was one of the major selling points of the expansion, I remember that video of the guy doing loop-de-loops on a drake and then to actually be able to do that you had to use a console command to remove the deadzone in the camera i can't remember the actual command but it let the camera do full 360 degree loops.

    edit: thats it /console pitchlimit 999 (88 is default if you try it)
    isnt there a keybind to change pitch? I remember doing this but not with a console command
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    isnt there a keybind to change pitch? I remember doing this but not with a console command
    I think there is it might be delete and insert that let you roll without using the command. meh i tried it doesn't seem to be bound for me.

    if you hold keypad 0 and W with numlock off that rolls you.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-01-23 at 07:57 PM.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    I think there is it might be delete and insert that let you roll without using the command.
    That sounds right to me
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  15. #15
    Many of the zones that were built around flying or benefitted heavily from it are among my favourites ever. These became less common and then blizzard almost completely abandoned them in the last two expansions which has hurt zone quality IMO
    Last edited by Svisalith; 2017-01-23 at 08:06 PM.

  16. #16
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    If flying hadn't been introduced, I never would've had the drive to farm for the longest time I ever have: on the Isle of Quel'danas with a friend. We were pooling our resources to get epic flight for four characters total.

    I also wouldn't have enjoyed BC nearly as much as I did. Flight was fucking awesome in BC. Icecrown and Storm Peaks also would've been a hell of a lot more boring in Wrath, Cata would've required a complete redesign since many of the zones relied on you having flight, and Pandaria wouldn't have been as pretty or cool with all the various nooks and crannies to discover.

    And WoD? Well, WoD would've been WoD, but with slower endgame farming and rare hunting.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    isnt there a keybind to change pitch? I remember doing this but not with a console command
    No, but you can use zero on your numpad to do loops without changing the pitchlimit and having to do it yourself.
    "Everything always changes. The best plan lasts until the first arrow leaves the bow." - Matrim Cauthon

  18. #18
    Well, everything would be a hell of a lot more boring, I imagine that would have worn me down over the years.

  19. #19
    If Flying was never introduced. Some former or current Developer would go out in an interview and say, "We considered letting the players fly.." The crap fest would start.

  20. #20
    I suspect that if free-form flying had never been a thing, then the game would have steadily moved away from being open world as more and more was placed either into phases or instances. It's very unlikely that flying would have been utterly removed from the game. More likely is simply that it would be used for only specific reasons in specific areas, such as bombing runs, the Thorim quest to leap from dragon to dragon in Stormpeaks, or the "Joust" quest in Hyjal.

    The problem is that Blizzard has painted themselves into a corner with their current approach to restricting flight. They've made it too binary. Either it's available in full 360 degree no-clip mode, or it's off and people have to deal with the grounded slog. And instead of innovating a good solution, they're sticking to the on/off switch nonsense that no one really likes.

    I think it's mostly pointless to speculate on what would or wouldn't have happened without flight. The cat is out of the bag. Pandoras box is opened. Trying to shut it again is a waste of time and resources, and is only going to piss people off. Blizzard has to deal with the fact that flying exists instead of sticking their head in the sand with Pathfinder. They need to overhaul the mechanics of flying, how it's accessed, and how it's used. Until they do that they're going to just keep alienating part of their playerbase.

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