Upcoming Class Tuning Hotfixes for Mythic Nighthold

[onemanaleft]

Here's some napkin math for you.

Before the 5% buff damage buff, overpowered damage drops by a little under 6% and Arcane missiles does 3.5% less.

So thats a net nerf of ~1% to damage during overpowered (but actually less than that because AM will be doing some extra damage) and a net buff of ~1.5% to all AM damage.

Then 5% more to everything else.

In what world is this a nerf?

"Arcane missiles does 3.5% less." 160/148 = 7.5% less

"overpowered damage drops by a little under 6%"...."So thats a net nerf of ~1% to damage during overpowered" ill spell it out pretty simple. lets even ignore the fact that spells now cost 33% more during overpowered. were talking about a 6% damage nerf, during a phase where roughly 40% of our damage occurs, and you can check plenty of logs to back up the fact that about 40% of an arcane mages dmg comes during overpowered. for example, a 600k dps mage in a 90 second span does 54m damage. 40% of that is 21.6m dmg during arcane power, which is pretty consistent with what ill pull with 15s AP duration (its 13-16 dependingon relics but AP duration is currently #1 simming relic so it shuold be 16s really). this is also without any of my logs being done using a whispers in the dark trinket which is the #1 simming trinket behind the KJ legendary trinket, meaning our burst will be way higher since were frontloading our damage further

so a 6% nerf on 40% of our damage (once again completely ignoring the 33% more mana cost) is 2.4% nerf alone

missles at 7.5% of (40-50% of our damage) well even assume best case and say 3%, so a 3% and 2.4% + the mana nerf

"In what world is this a nerf?" earth/azeroth/reality

[Deiae]

"Arcane missiles does 3.5% less." 160/148 = 7.5% less

You are misunderstanding how much AMP increases the damage AMs do. If you have say 77% (*my char) damage increase per arcane charge without AMP you have 92% with AMP or 89% upcoming. You can check that via your AM tooltip ingame for example, when you compare it to your AB tooltip. The quotient of 89/92 is 0.967, so the ~3% dps decrease for missiles when using AMP, not the 7.5% you think it is.

[onemanaleft]

You are misunderstanding how much AMP increases the damage AMs do. If you have say 77% (*my char) damage increase per arcane charge without AMP you have 92% with AMP or 89% upcoming. You can check that via your AM tooltip ingame for example, when you compare it to your AB tooltip. The quotient of 89/92 is 0.967, so the ~3% dps decrease for missiles when using AMP, not the 7.5% you think it is.

alright thanks, this is about the only scenario i considered where people claming it to be a buff could be correct, and is much more constructive than just saying "nope lulz retard"

on that note though this is really weird for blizzard in the first place because virtually everything in wow that says "x% increase to y" is multiplicative, not additive. i can think of very very few scenarios where something isnt multiplicative, so i assumed that amp did the same. this logic would say that rune and arcane power are additive which like anything else in wow is not the case, but are multiplicative

so this means with my previous "napkin math" adjusted its now about -3.6% dmg and 33% more mana cost during AP vs 5% dmg, which seems about equal

[Stuthedog]

"Arcane missiles does 3.5% less." 160/148 = 7.5% less

"overpowered damage drops by a little under 6%"...."So thats a net nerf of ~1% to damage during overpowered" ill spell it out pretty simple. lets even ignore the fact that spells now cost 33% more during overpowered. were talking about a 6% damage nerf, during a phase where roughly 40% of our damage occurs, and you can check plenty of logs to back up the fact that about 40% of an arcane mages dmg comes during overpowered. for example, a 600k dps mage in a 90 second span does 54m damage. 40% of that is 21.6m dmg during arcane power, which is pretty consistent with what ill pull with 15s AP duration (its 13-16 dependingon relics but AP duration is currently #1 simming relic so it shuold be 16s really). this is also without any of my logs being done using a whispers in the dark trinket which is the #1 simming trinket behind the KJ legendary trinket, meaning our burst will be way higher since were frontloading our damage further

so a 6% nerf on 40% of our damage (once again completely ignoring the 33% more mana cost) is 2.4% nerf alone

missles at 7.5% of (40-50% of our damage) well even assume best case and say 3%, so a 3% and 2.4% + the mana nerf

"In what world is this a nerf?" earth/azeroth/reality

Here you go so you can see how this actually works.

Assume 30% mastery
Arcane missiles currently would get 90% extra damage per stack (75+15 from amp). After nerf itll be 87% extra per stack. 3.6x -> 3.48x = Just under 3.5%.
Arcane power goes from 1.7x damage to 1.6x damage. Thats just under a 6% nerf.

1% nerf to 40% of arcane's damage (This is a pretty big overstatement and is closer to 30%, but for your sanity and to prove the point ill keep it). 1.5% buff to another 40%. 5% to the other 20%.

Thats a little over a 1% buff, the minute amount of extra mana you use during arcane power should be balanced out by the extra damage the AMissiles you use during AP will be doing.

With more realistic weights for burst damage the buff should be about 2%,

[onemanaleft]

Here you go so you can see how this actually works.

Assume 30% mastery
Arcane missiles currently would get 90% extra damage per stack (75+15 from amp). After nerf itll be 87% extra per stack. 3.6x -> 3.48x = Just under 3.5%.
Arcane power goes from 1.7x damage to 1.6x damage. Thats just under a 6% nerf.

1% nerf to 40% of arcane's damage (This is a pretty big overstatement and is closer to 30%, but for your sanity and to prove the point ill keep it). 1.5% buff to another 40%. 5% to the other 20%.

Thats a little over a 1% buff, the minute amount of extra mana you use during arcane power should be balanced out by the extra damage the AMissiles you use during AP will be doing.

With more realistic weights for burst damage the buff should be about 2%,

you posted like 10s after me just read my previous response

[Deleted]

what awesome idea ... wowdevice wakeup and say today i will nerf one of the worst spec(arcane)! why ? cause that 2 talents is better from others
10% nerf OP and 12% nerf amp they nerf arcane legendarys (legs , wirst)and some talents(NT ,SN)they remove quickening they increase mana cost AB AE but they give 5% buff ... wow!! iplay arcane 7years and everytime how some1 from blizz call "balance" arcane is the worst dps(to logs and sims) why there to wowdevice u dont delete arcane from the game will be better from that (every week and every exp nerf)
y.g : they reduce mana cost for some fire spells... LOL is out from critism that ...

I know you're from Greece and English isn't your first language but goddamn. Word sallad with 0 punctuation, It's incredibly hard to make sense of this.

[schwarzkopf]

What is the problem?

Blizzard identified a problem and fixed it .. change is always a problem.

In other words - there is no problem.

Surprised about the Arcane buffs though, I was reasonably happy with mine. Maybe it fell behind with NH gear or something ?

[Deleted]

everyone is good at aoe, get over yourself and look at the numbers.

I was being sarcastic, as I'd already said.

i would bet you any amount of gold this is a net nerf to arcane

you can double your post count while you're at it

You would use that amount of gold for it's a net buff.

[Deleted]

I know you're from Greece and English isn't your first language but goddamn. Word sallad with 0 punctuation, It's incredibly hard to make sense of this.

Sorry man... you have right...

[Deleted]

I have got the timewarp ring and ~14% haste and after 7 minutes of hitting dummy i get oom. I think with 4-set problem would be even worse. It's good that they reduce the mana costs, a few months ago in emerald nightmare while fights were long(~7 minutes mythic dragons) I was getting out of mana at the end of fight, on mythic nighthold with all this haste from sets/some boss mechanics my mana would be big problem ;\

Seriusly, you think that in a raid mage stay for 7 min in a spot without move or change target? What raid you have make?

[mrgreenthump]

Seriusly, you think that in a raid mage stay for 7 min in a spot without move or change target? What raid you have make?

On Star Augur you can, if you are lucky and decide to ignore the p3 add.

[Deleted]

On Star Augur you can, if you are lucky and decide to ignore the p3 add.

these are the comments that let blizzard fix a problem that is very very rare too see instead of others.

[Alakallanar]

On Star Augur you can, if you are lucky and decide to ignore the p3 add.

The day you get no Fel Ejection in p2 is the day you might consider buying lottery tickets. Might be a raid size dependent, but in my experience you are doing good already if you only get it 2-3 times.

[Deleted]

Seriusly, you think that in a raid mage stay for 7 min in a spot without move or change target? What raid you have make?

Happened to me on mythic dragons when our guild didn't overgear it, and this happened without all addidional haste from set so I'm happy mana problems won't exist anymore

[mrgreenthump]

these are the comments that let blizzard fix a problem that is very very rare too see instead of others.

If you have the shard and get extremely lucky, you will run oom on a long fight. It doesn't really matter if there is movement or not, because while they removed Ice Floes, Fire is still fairly mobile and looses no real dps time on Star Augur for example. Now it doesn't happen often, but with the 4-set, the problem is very real. For example on Star Augur heroic, my guildie ran oom during P3 and he doesn't even have the 4-set yet.

Also target swapping does no matter, because you are still casting your ST rotation at that point.

[stomination]

Meanwhile, Frost mages are being asked to sit out Mythic progression because they are the worst in pretty much every fight....

Hurray 24% buff to Comet Storm...... still won't compete with Thermal Void ever....

I always hate when someone gripes because the one spec they play isn't the best mage spec.

[Deleted]

If you have the shard and get extremely lucky, you will run oom on a long fight. It doesn't really matter if there is movement or not, because while they removed Ice Floes, Fire is still fairly mobile and looses no real dps time on Star Augur for example. Now it doesn't happen often, but with the 4-set, the problem is very real. For example on Star Augur heroic, my guildie ran oom during P3 and he doesn't even have the 4-set yet.

Also target swapping does no matter, because you are still casting your ST rotation at that point.

Seriusly, with the problems that have fire mage atm, we focus on something that can happen when all we have 4 piece of sets and if we are lucky in a single fight of raid and in normal and hero?Is as if to a person with a cut hand, were applying a cream against pimples in the face

[yarafx1]

I'd still prefer to see a slight reduction in mana cost for Arcane spells, or bake temporal flux back into the class and give us Prismatic Crystal back :/

- - - Updated - - -

I always hate when someone gripes because the one spec they play isn't the best mage spec.

The real gripe is we're a pure DPS class and we're not performing well over all. O_O

[Fayenoor]

I always hate when someone gripes because the one spec they play isn't the best mage spec.

Look at the rogues - their specs are very similarly balanced. And it is not like fire is miles ahead compared to other caster DPS specs. Fire is the 4th worst caster DPS spec - other 3 being Arcane, Destro, Frost.

Last time mages were this bad were back in Sunwell.

To all those mages who run sims on PTR and actively participate in mage feedback during feedback -- WTF were you smoking???? This is what you guys ended up with? Good job guys. Keep up the good work providing Blizzard with feedback.

[Gemini Soul]

Look at the rogues - their specs are very similarly balanced. And it is not like fire is miles ahead compared to other caster DPS specs. Fire is the 4th worst caster DPS spec - other 3 being Arcane, Destro, Frost.

Last time mages were this bad were back in Sunwell.

To all those mages who run sims on PTR and actively participate in mage feedback during feedback -- WTF were you smoking???? This is what you guys ended up with? Good job guys. Keep up the good work providing Blizzard with feedback.

Can type feedback all we want to Blizz till our fingers bleed and fall off, fact is they either don't listen or don't care. The only people to blame is Blizz, they did a poor job of balancing. Yes there will always be a spec on top and a spec on bottom, but the gap between them should not be as big as it is.