Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part Two

[pinkz]

Allow me to refresh your memory good sir
https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...lords-draenor/

“At this point, we feel that outdoor gameplay in World of Warcraft is ultimately better without flying,” Hazzikostas said. “We’re not going to be reintroducing the ability to fly in Draenor and that’s kind of where we’re at going forward.”

that link doesn't paint the true set-up of flying in WOD revolt and what was posted prior to WOD by another DEV, also dev IH seemed liked he was unaware of what another dev had announced. that's what started more than anything else. blizzard actually said YES prior to the expac, they announced there was delay prior to the first patch, then on second patch players started saying WTF! which first patch was supposed to unlock it and at one point dev-IH then said no flying and no flying in future expacs. then rather unlock it like they said they would based on past expacs, they came up with the rope a dope unlock system. the original post by bashiok now says SERVER ERROR 502, censorship at it's finest

but i still have part of bashiok's post, despite what dev IH claimed it was from pieced together info, misunderstood or out of context. IH did everything he could to back peddle and twist what was known.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10571977123#6

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

[xanzul]

Which begs the question: Why is Flying being taken away, if everything is so accessible?

Because restricting flight was never ever about slowing down players.

[SirCowdog]

.

You build roads for left or right hand drive - you can't build a road system allow people to chose which side they drive.
Same with building the worlds - you build it with a play style in mind .... that is one or the other.

And the mistake is in such overly simplistic approaches that assume only one playstyle can ever exist at any given moment, as though the concepts we're mutually exclusive(which they're not).

[xanzul]

Except one does not simply come back and fly, you still have to earn that which is the real bullshit.

The only people unhappy with this compromise are flybabies. Actual pro flyers have no issue with it and many of them suggested something like pathfinder.

[schwarzkopf]

only one playstyle can ever exist at any given moment

That is the core of the problem - the world is created once per expansion, the world and the content is targeted towards a given play style. That means - the design can only support one playstyle at once.

Currently - that involves no flying (along with a hundred other decisions). A compromise has been reached where it is introduced late... I disagree with that, but accept it as a valid compromise. So should people who wanted flying.

[SirCowdog]

People complained about travel times without flying and Blizzard addressed it with the flying whistle and it still isn't good enough for you people. It isn't a cop out it is a solution to a problem that lack of flight introduced. We already know going foward pathfinder is going to be how flight is going to be handled in new content and until such a time that their stance changes it accomplishes nothing to continually ask for flight. Instead it would be far more constructive and effective to drill down into what players dislike about zone design without flight and address those issues.

It accomplishes what it's always accomplished: Expressing to blizzard what we think of their garbage approach to flying, and our desire for flight to be included in the game like it used to be instead of shovelled to the side as a useless afterthought.


Replacing flight with emerald winds isn't good enough. Giving us against feather or the glider isn't a replacement. Putting in the flight master whistle isn't flying. The reason why it's "not good enough" is because none of that crap is what we asked for.

[xanzul]

All I see are whiny babies who want to tell me that I can't fly but who don't have the balls to not fly themselves.

My biggest issue with all of this is that it has nothing at all to do with an in game reason we can't fly. It's just make-work, just hoops to jump through. It's neither interesting nor related to flight... in short, it's just more shit design from a team that seems to design obstacles to overcome vs fun reasons to do things.

The issue with flight is not flight itself but how it impacts the game world and how we interact with it. Telling people to not fly is not only ignorant but trolling. Again as I said Blizzard has made it clear what their issues with flight are and why and all you people can come up with is "don't fly" in response.

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It doesn't "stress me out" but having an omnidirectionally aggroing mob every f*** 5 yards is goddamn annoying if you play a cloth class.

Imho the whole concept of "we force you into combat and bombard you with meaningless trashmobs every few seconds" is tiresome at best and frustrating at worst. It feels as if I am fighting, fighting, fighting all the time.

Exploration? Enjoyment of the scenery? Sorry I am too busy staring at the ground and at red nameplates, trying to get from point A to point B w/o being raped by all sorts of creepies (or getting stuck on tiny, barely visible doodads) to look up and "smell the starlight roses".

I don't really care about it when I play my pally alt though, because I can bulldoze through and kill what manages to stick once I reach my destination.

I have a caster who literally just hit 110 yesterday and I have been doing a ton of WQs and I'm having NONE of the issues you people keep screaming about. It really shows just how much flight has damaged this game when people can't figure out how to not aggro a mob or hop over a branch and need flying to avoid those things.

[SL1200]

If you want to fly in wow, you have to quit the game. It's been removed. They have tricked you all into thinking it's still a part of the game. It's not, and never will be again if we all keep playing and paying them.

It would be great if we could all pick a day and have everyone unsub on the same day, but that would be difficult, because if you're paying with tokens, you can't really unsub, all you can do is let your game time run out.

Gota vote with your wallet. It's the only thing they understand. If you keep playing, you support them in the no flying thing.

[xanzul]

Just logged in to pin this here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=9#post-162


Originally Posted by Watcher
Let me try to clear things up a bit, since I realize a single achievement out of context isn't exactly informative.

Overall, this is consistent with the plans we announced last year when we added the original Draenor Pathfinder achievement in 6.2.2, and hopefully does not come as a surprise. The underlying philosophy here is: explore and master the outdoor world on the ground, in order to unlock the ability to soar above it freely. This time around, since we have our design in place from the start of the expansion, we want to give players as much advance notice as possible, and allow everyone who cares deeply about unlocking flight to understand the requirements and begin progressing towards them immediately.

I can't give a detailed estimate of exactly when the next step will unlock. We have a solid patch plan in the works, but we need to remain flexible to adapt to player needs once the expansion launches, and there's no way to even hint at a date without it sounding like a promise. That said, I can say that Part One should represent a significant majority of the total effort required to ultimately unlock flight. Patch content will see players adventuring within new parts of the Broken Isles, and there will likely be one or two additional criteria associated with that content. At that point, players will unlock the ability to fly throughout the Broken Isles.

Finally, I've seen some concern about rep "grinding" associated with this achievement. All of the referenced reputations are earned by doing level-up quests and world quests associated with those factions throughout the Broken Isles. There are no mob-grinding components to any of these reputations. Frankly, the Legion Pathfinder achievement was much easier to design than Draenor Pathfinder was, simply because we have much more outdoor world content in Legion.






Lawyer speak as it's finest.
So first it's not 1 or 2 criteria, it's 3. They forgot to mention how part one required exalted with Nightfallen, which increased the requirement quite a bit. Now they forget to mention how long will it take to reach exalted with tht faction, also they forget to mention how long the campaign is. This is just sad tbh. :/

That post is nearly a year old not to mention the fact what he posted there matchs up with what we are seeing in 7.2 so the "lawyer speak" comment just comes off as completely ignorant. What point is it you think you are making here?

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It's fact, pure and simple.
Don't like PVP? Then don't PVP
Don't like raiding? Then don't raid.
Don't like pet battles? Then don't pet battle.
Don't like riding yourself to locations? Make proper use of flightpaths.
Don't like feeling like you're not doing the travelling? Don't use flightpaths.
Don't want to fly? Don't fly. Plenty of people didn't in WoD even after Pathfinder was added.
Don't want to be grounded? Sorry, you're going to be grounded and like it. Compromise; You can fly once you've seen the content and done it 1000 times over as it pleases us.

And anti-flying fanatics still keep burping the same old tired arguments about how flying "ruins the game", "is for lazy people" and everything else over a feature that's been in the game since the very first expansion forward.

If I as a pro-flying player can choose to play without using flying mounts for various reasons, so can anti-flying people... only, they're seemingly quite weak-willed and/or in some prestige race with every other player on their server...

- "But if I stay grounded and others fly, they'll reach destinations before me!!"
- And the ones being closer to the destination will reach it before those that are further away. In other news; Water is wet.

- "But flying makes you skip content!"
- Probably on the way to content you want to get to and actually partake in. It's no bloody difference from being grounded and running through one area in order to get to the area beyond where you have shit to do for a reward you want. These days you can skip content ON THE GROUND and even without the fear of being dazed, courtesy of Stonehide Leather Barding. Guess grounded mounts need to be banned, everyone walk!

- "But flying makes you miss out on content"
- ... I don't know about you, but if I'm riding or flying by my own hand, I kinda look at the screen and see shit on the ground/around me. The only time I "miss out", would be when I'm on a flight taxi and alt-tabbing. What, your memory is so shit that areas you've gone through 100 times still surprise you every single time you get to it? What a joke...

It's been said before and will be said again; Flying is staying. The compromise is in place and sees players gaining access to freedom of flight long after the content arrives. If some people simply cannot enjoy the game as a result (pro or anti-flying), they can gtfo to games that don't allow flying/always allow it. Simple.

Not flying doesn't resolve the issue that other people flying takes them out of the game world. And I don't give a fuck about flight paths so don't even try it. We are talking about player controlled flight.

[Hammerfest]

Yeah I absolutely hate this BS about no flying.

I hated flying in Cataclysm and am so glad it wasn't a thing until later phases in MoP, Draenor and Legion. Flying, particularly during the leveling phase of an expansion, destroys your gaming world.

[Slicer299]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=1...inder-part-two

so the part two is here..

i remember blizzard saying that part 2 would be way more faster than part one, but yet, you need:

-Do the history line of legionfall;
-Reach exalted with Armies of Legionfall;

if the reputation follow like was the other, when u can only get rep with WQ/Emissarys (and the questline), this will take roughly 1 month to complete, like part one.

this is just stupid tbh :/

already tired of getting on ground, and hte worse, everytime i get dazed, i get unmounted. if at least they take the unmount part of it, it would be less stressing :/

While I am against the whole no or restricted flying, you do have the dirt cheap Stonehide Leather Bardings available to prevent getting dismounted.

I hated flying in Cataclysm and am so glad it wasn't a thing until later phases in MoP, Draenor and Legion. Flying, particularly during the leveling phase of an expansion, destroys your gaming world.

Doesn't destroy mine, just the opposite in fact. It's the biggest issue with the no flying crowd, you feel you have some moral superiority to force what you want on everyone else. No one ever forces you to use your flying mounts, so stop saying no one else should be allowed to use theirs.

It's kind of a form of censorship, you want to censor how other people play the game. No different than people who want to get various TV shows banned because they dislike the content. They want to stop everyone else from watching just because they think it's wrong to watch them. Allowing the majority of players to fly does nothing to stop you from not flying, it harms you in no way what so ever for flying to be allowed. But the rest of us suffer when the devs listen to vocal minorities such as the No Flying crowd.

[OmniSkribe]

Why take the convinience away in the first place?

It's like stabbing someone in the back with a knife. And when they complain it hurts, you (or Blizzard), reply: Don't whine, be glad you are not dead instead!

Why not sell all BiS gear in Stowrmwind? Why bother with raid and all other stuff? It is convenient, right?
Ground exploration is part of content. Don't like it? Don't do it. Sit in city and spam LFG whole day long.

[Slicer299]

Why not sell all BiS gear in Stowrmwind? Why bother with raid and all other stuff? It is convenient, right?
Ground exploration is part of content. Don't like it? Don't do it. Sit in city and spam LFG whole day long.

No, the content is there regardless of how you choose to travel to it. You don't get to take that choice away from anyone. There is literally no such thing as "ground content", as in content that requires you complete it via your ground mount. No, at all, whatsoever. Mounts do nothing more than dictate how we get from point to point, not how we consume the content once we get there.

[OmniSkribe]

No, the content is there regardless of how you choose to travel to it. You don't get to take that choice away from anyone. There is literally no such thing as "ground content", as in content that requires you complete it via your ground mount. No, at all, whatsoever. Mounts do nothing more than dictate how we get from point to point, not how we consume the content once we get there.

Ground mounts is the way how you consume open world content in the game. "Content" is not some small patch of ground with mobs here or there separate by emptiness.

[Dopplegager]

At least with flying we actually are playing the game. Half the time I just use the flight Masters whistle and use a flight path. Watch YouTube or netflix run over do a quest use the whistle fly some where with a flight path then poop and do it again. Mostly end up doing the bare minimum of the emissary quests if I even bother any more.

[SL1200]

Content is still trivialized in the game today. They failed, I rarely get dismounted on my way to a quest objective and if i do, i just keep running until I get where I'm going and aoe down anything that might still be chasing me in a few shots.

[Granyala]

Which is why you're getting flying "soon" and not now. What's your problem again?

The retarded and unnecessary 8 months waiting time? I'm through with the content and have seen everything there is to see. Time for flight.

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Not flying doesn't resolve the issue that other people flying takes them out of the game world.

And so do flightpaths. Half my time questing I spend on non interactive flight paths. Well... my Draenei does.
I am usually tabbed out doing sth else.
Talk about REMOVING ME from the game world.

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I have a caster who literally just hit 110 yesterday and I have been doing a ton of WQs and I'm having NONE of the issues you people keep screaming about. It really shows just how much flight has damaged this game when people can't figure out how to not aggro a mob or hop over a branch and need flying to avoid those things.

Contrary to FF-XIV, where you can try to sneak past a mobs behind, you cannot avoid aggroing a mob in WoW if the terrain forces you within the aggro range because WoWs mobs seem to have eyes in their asses too.

You especially notice that once you try to leave the roads (say, to gather stuff etc).

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The only people unhappy with this compromise are flybabies. Actual pro flyers have no issue with it and many of them suggested something like pathfinder.

Correct. We suggested it w/o the retarded year long wait for another f*** patch.

Do the work -> get rewarded.
Now it is: Do the work -> wait for a year -> do some more work -> be rewarded when there is absolutely 0 reason to go out anyway. Wohoo what a reward.

[Lane]

Flight paths are GW2 waypoints with excessively long loading animations. Flight paths also lock you out of your character and prevent you from actually having the freedom to play the game. Oh, there's something down there that looks interesting? Too bad. You forgot something back at the bank? Too bad, you have to wait til you land.

Everything about flight paths are bad when compared to more modern approaches to getting players where the part of the game they want to play is.

Flight points are also nowhere near as generously placed as waypoints are in GW2. People like to say "they're all over the place", but they're not. Southern Val'Sharah is a good example, there's only the one center FP at Lorlathil. Stormheim is absolutely horrid as Horde with no flight path on the east coast whatsoever (Alliance get Greywatch). There's not even a FP at Farondis, which is a cache destination!

Plus, the farther you have to travel the worse off you are. I have to plan my activities around traveling, including micromanaging multiple hearthstones, to minimize the amount of time that's wasted doing literally nothing. Blizzard, for whatever reason, seems to believe there's value in forcing players to watch exactly how far they're traveling from start to finish, while being pacified the whole time, and in a world that never changes. The route from Illidari Strand to Valdisdall looks exactly the same now as it did at launch and I'm willing to bet it will remain so forever just like every other part of WoW's outdoor world that is perpetually stagnant.

BUT in reality: almost no one likes getting bombarded by trash, esp not in repeatable "daily MMO-busywork" you just want to get done.
That's why they all felt pressured to fly, because: BLIZZARDS WORLD DESIGN IS NOT FUN.
If it were fun, people would say "screw flight, I love this!". They DIDN'T which is direct and irrefutable evidence.

I guess Blizzard forcing us into the "non fun design" suddenly makes it fun. Don't ask me why.

It's definitely been their philosophy this expansion, for everything. "We'll force them to do it and eventually they'll learn love it as much as we do." Ironically, I didn't use waypoints very much in the MMOs I've played that have them because their outdoor content had dynamic events and other things you'd miss if you skipped over it. Mostly I used them for quick town trips, which I personally found preserved that precious immersion far more than being placed in 'time out' on a flight path. WoW has no such dynamic world, never has had, it's either something Blizzard doesn't have the technology or desire to do (they do seem to believe the only content of value is instanced). Unfortunately, that means the outdoor world for all intents and purposes is meaningless once you've completed the zone questing. It's not like WQs make the surrounding areas relevant (that's aside from them often being rehashes of zone questing).

[Granyala]

A Very simple example: There is a flag on top of a mountain, getting the flag gives you a reward. Blizzard wants you to climb there, and knows if you have the option to climb or fly you would fly. When the flags aren't that obvious people get mad, but pacing and quest design is severely limited when flying is enabled.

Did the climb and got the flag multiple times, no longer interested in climbing just to do some flag maintenance.
*mounts helicopter*

[Mormolyce]

If people don't like it, then simply don't fly.

Either everyone flies or no-one does.

Or you have an unlock chain so eventually everyone flies.