State of WW Monks...worth re-rolling?

[adamthemute]

What are the pros/cons of WW Monks in Nighthold? I currently main Frost DK, but I'm really not a fan of the current BoS spec, and wanted to try something fun and effective.

Are they fun and effective?

[Fxn]

What are the pros/cons of WW Monks in Nighthold? I currently main Frost DK, but I'm really not a fan of the current BoS spec, and wanted to try something fun and effective.

Are they fun and effective?

Yes. Our "rotation" is easy to learn and hard to master. We have one of the best cleaves and therefor are pretty good in m+. Damagewise compared to other classes we may not roll in the big boys league for single target encounters, but to me it feels overall satisfying to play and with proper gear you should still be able to bring in the big dps for raids.

[Korru]

Fun but sadly frustrating and not effective as other classes, if you don't like Breath of Sindragosa, I'm sure you won't like Serenity. I suggest playing the spec causally before you decide to reroll.

[Deleted]

Fun but sadly frustrating and not effective as other classes, if you don't like Breath of Sindragosa, I'm sure you won't like Serenity. I suggest playing the spec causally before you decide to reroll.

if he doesnt like serenity he can just play with whirling dragon punch

[Deleted]

The whole idea of combo strikes can be a major turn off for some people. If you don't care, they are really good in NH, considering every other fight is AoE fest, and the rest are at least cleave.

[Deleted]

I've been playing WW since they came out back in MoP (used to be main enh shaman), the fantasy and spells got me def, in Legion the new mastery looked good but feels difficult sometimes you gotta have some weak auras to keep track of it, it will take a few months to master it but I'm breaking the recount and we have a lot of mobility and some great deffensive (Karma)

What's else, since 7.1.5 we have a lot of talent choices (15 tier, 90 and 100 tier talents) and I personally have 3 builds, one for mythic+ and the others 2 for raid

[Shoeboots]

I've mained WW since MoP launched and overall I don't regret it. It's always been fun IMO, and its current iteration is arguably the most fun it's ever been. The tight knit community is also a great perk.

What I would say is that if you're all about numbers and min/maxing, proceed with caution. Monks have always been competitive, but they rarely top the charts for dps (although they're looking really good atm). Their mobility, along with their effortless cleave and aoe seem to have caused problems in every iteration I can remember, resulting in the need to limit single target dps.

What the numbers won't show you is how clutch a monk can be at a crucial moment when nobody else can dart across the room to take care of a crisis, or its ability to deal with adds efficiently. The benefit of WW is the unique stuff it brings to the table, which isn't really reflected in warcraft logs.

The other thing to be aware of this expansion is that it seems our class design is flawed in that we don't scale well. We started EN really strong and were almost last by the end. We've started NH really strong as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're at the bottom by the end. The side effect of this is a bipolar community loving our class when a new tier starts and hating it in a few months.

If you think those issues are a price worth paying for the most fun melee I've ever seen in WoW, then you should roll a monk! If you're going to constantly be bothered by warcraft logs and simcraft telling you that monks are garbage, then you should roll a rogue.

[Deleted]

WW is a really fun and engaging spec which will keep you entertained for months. There are definitely issues though, you may have seen the recent fix to Storm, Earth and Fire (SEF) which was way overdue. But even with those fixes, WW can still feel like a "buggy" spec, especially surrounding SEF, and the latest changes to Serenity kinda show that Blizzard aren't sure exactly where they are going with it.

If you don't mind some of the bug shenanigans once in a while, in my opinion WW is by far the most fun melee and one of the best specs in the entire game!

[stealthwill]

To be honest I don't think the mastery requires "months" to master... Maybe a couple of weeks in raids at most.

[Dirdie]

The biggest hate i have with WW right now is the shitty tab targeting that is a big part of maxing out aoe. But really strong burst damage, and strong cleave/aoe, and Dave is great for alot of fights in NH atm.

[Saverem]

WWs just took a HUGE DPS nerf with the CoF trinket nerf. And yes, like @Dirdie mentioned, our AoE is cancer with the way it works requiring us to use the broken tab target system to build SCK charges.

Honestly, right now I'd go with Havocs over WWs. They have similar play styles except their AoE is actually fun to do and their damage will now be higher than WWs due to the massive CoF nerf WWs just took (and no, I'm not underplaying it, they just took like a 50k DPS nerf from that trinket which was their BiS and now is garbage).

[Bags]

50k dps nerf from cof? lol? care to share your math on that

it's likely still our BiS even with the nerf since it was a 10% dps increase at any ilvl

[taek]

The #1 top ranking Heroic WW parses on Guldan, Elisandre, and High Botanist, 3 for 3 did not have the trinket. (at the time when i checked on the logs)

[Lixion]

The #1 top ranking Heroic WW parses on Guldan, Elisandre, and High Botanist, 3 for 3 did not have the trinket. (at the time when i checked on the logs)

That because people aren't loggin every run, tingywinky from DT got what would been an overall rank 1 on guldan with it.

[Emerald Archer]

WWs just took a HUGE DPS nerf with the CoF trinket nerf. And yes, like @Dirdie mentioned, our AoE is cancer with the way it works requiring us to use the broken tab target system to build SCK charges.

Honestly, right now I'd go with Havocs over WWs. They have similar play styles except their AoE is actually fun to do and their damage will now be higher than WWs due to the massive CoF nerf WWs just took (and no, I'm not underplaying it, they just took like a 50k DPS nerf from that trinket which was their BiS and now is garbage).

That's how you know you don't know what you're talking about. CoF is still most likely BiS and by a large margin. Use the monk discord sometime.

[taek]

That because people aren't loggin every run, tingywinky from DT got what would been an overall rank 1 on guldan with it.

Agreed & understood, but my point was that without CoF, WW performance isn't in the dumpster.

[Saverem]

That's how you know you don't know what you're talking about. CoF is still most likely BiS and by a large margin. Use the monk discord sometime.

Don't know what Discord you've been reading, but this trinket is now worse than any agi trinket with mastery/crit of equal ilvl, unless it's a fight that lasts longer then ~7-8min, and even then it's minimal.

[Emerald Archer]

Don't know what Discord you've been reading, but this trinket is now worse than any agi trinket with mastery/crit of equal ilvl, unless it's a fight that lasts longer then ~7-8min, and even then it's minimal.

... Literally THE MAIN discord for ALL THINGS monk. With the best theory crafters and players all on it.

"CoF nerf is huge but here are the actual numbers for it if you're curious:
CoF used to put both serenity and SEF right below 1 minute cooldown on average, making it probably the biggest outlier of specs using CoF, specially with Drinking Horn Cover. CoF was like an urn of same ilvl with the power of a legendary item attached to it numbers wise.

Post nerfs, we can assume with the previously base RPPM of 6.43 for WW (second highest after rogues?) it will put:
SEF on a 1:15 seconds cooldown
Serenity on a 1:20 seconds cooldown (aka naturally lining up with draugh of souls); if it had been 1:15, we'd prolly have ended up lining these two baddies anyways.

I need to look at strike of the windlord timings for both spells and AoE implications, but for the record:
on average CoF gains a full cast of metamorphosis every 10 minutes I believe for a DH?
on average CoF gains a full cast of SEF every 4-5 minutes POST NERF for monks? think of implications with DHC, 25 seconds of 50% damage every 4-5 minutes versus 30 seconds of 30% haste and enhanced chaos strike every ten minutes? This is all very approximate but to put things into perspective, even without DHC CoF is likely to remain our best trinket by a long shot."

[Saverem]

... Literally THE MAIN discord for ALL THINGS monk. With the best theory crafters and players all on it.

"CoF nerf is huge but here are the actual numbers for it if you're curious:
CoF used to put both serenity and SEF right below 1 minute cooldown on average, making it probably the biggest outlier of specs using CoF, specially with Drinking Horn Cover. CoF was like an urn of same ilvl with the power of a legendary item attached to it numbers wise.

Post nerfs, we can assume with the previously base RPPM of 6.43 for WW (second highest after rogues?) it will put:
SEF on a 1:15 seconds cooldown
Serenity on a 1:20 seconds cooldown (aka naturally lining up with draugh of souls); if it had been 1:15, we'd prolly have ended up lining these two baddies anyways.

I need to look at strike of the windlord timings for both spells and AoE implications, but for the record:
on average CoF gains a full cast of metamorphosis every 10 minutes I believe for a DH?
on average CoF gains a full cast of SEF every 4-5 minutes POST NERF for monks? think of implications with DHC, 25 seconds of 50% damage every 4-5 minutes versus 30 seconds of 30% haste and enhanced chaos strike every ten minutes? This is all very approximate but to put things into perspective, even without DHC CoF is likely to remain our best trinket by a long shot."

Except the 4-5min is actually 7-8min, which means if the fight lasts longer than that, it'll be better, if not, then it'll be useless. That's also assuming you open up with SEF cast which isn't always beneficial because they don't always open the fight with Lust/Heroism.

[Emerald Archer]

Except the 4-5min is actually 7-8min, which means if the fight lasts longer than that, it'll be better, if not, then it'll be useless. That's also assuming you open up with SEF cast which isn't always beneficial because they don't always open the fight with Lust/Heroism.

No the math was done by top players, it's 4-5 minutes.

And even if it was 7-8, the vast majority of mythic fights go that long.

But again, you've thought up some random number in your head, and have decided it holds more value than the guys who do all the guides opinions?