[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[Slippykins]

Thank you for that in depth response to my ShS vs Botany question. Yes it did clear it up.

Always welcome.

Hey guys, im not sure If i did it right but, my simcraft is actually simming better with 875 arcanocrystal than 910 kil'jaeden. Can someone double check it for me?

Thats for the regular single target build
Enviado de meu XT1225 usando Tapatalk

It's possible the trinket isn't being used, did you import your character with the KJ trinket on? Make sure you use the profile with the KJ trinket because it should include the necessary APL to use it on cooldown.

[Raptrap]

Always welcome.



It's possible the trinket isn't being used, did you import your character with the KJ trinket on? Make sure you use the profile with the KJ trinket because it should include the necessary APL to use it on cooldown.

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Yea, i did import with the trinket on i used the simc addon for it. I had setups tested for the single target build, ED+OI and a 875 arcanocrystal versus ED+KJ and a 880 Haste crit bracer. The results are 40k better with ED+OI at patchwerks style fights. One thing thats bothering me is starfall accounting for 5% of my dmg, which brought me the question, should i be using starfall procs on single target fights?

[Nerxyrall]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Yea, i did import with the trinket on i used the simc addon for it. I had setups tested for the single target build, ED+OI and a 875 arcanocrystal versus ED+KJ and a 880 Haste crit bracer. The results are 40k better with ED+OI at patchwerks style fights. One thing thats bothering me is starfall accounting for 5% of my dmg, which brought me the question, should i be using starfall procs on single target fights?

Yes
Why wouldnt you....its free dmg. You have no spell that does more dmg than starfall in one gcd even singel target. Exept starsure but that costs ap. Also your starfall can procc another starsurge.

[MV Kaa]

Starfall increase the damage of your dots

[Ifeanychukwu]

Holy shit, awesome write up man. That's a lot to take in though... but from what I read if I have OI it seems I'm still better off with Incarnation rather than SotF even when there's 3+ adds to cleave?

[Slippykins]

Holy shit, awesome write up man. That's a lot to take in though... but from what I read if I have OI it seems I'm still better off with Incarnation rather than SotF even when there's 3+ adds to cleave?

Not entirely, SotF scales better with targets than Incarnation. OI will see reduced value by taking it with SotF instead of Incarnation, but it's very small (maybe on the order of 2-5% OI contribution). Pick your legendaries for a fight, then pick your build. SotF/SS/SD is pretty strong if you use it properly, and you can take Starlord as your T15 talent if you have ED or 4pc.

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Hey, thanks for the reply.

Yea, i did import with the trinket on i used the simc addon for it. I had setups tested for the single target build, ED+OI and a 875 arcanocrystal versus ED+KJ and a 880 Haste crit bracer. The results are 40k better with ED+OI at patchwerks style fights. One thing thats bothering me is starfall accounting for 5% of my dmg, which brought me the question, should i be using starfall procs on single target fights?

Definitely! A free starfall has a higher DPET than any other spell, so even before you factor in the extra DoT damage it's already worth casting.

KJ is definitely an AoE-trinket, but if you're still having issues with the sims let me know and I'll sim you.

[sinofasin]

Just a random question, are you guys upping IE or ED first to a 940? I'm fortunate enough to have both as my first legendaries, thinking i should up IE first due to better itemization, what do yall think?

[Myztikrice]

The int increase from ED trumps IFE

[Slippykins]

Just a random question, are you guys upping IE or ED first to a 940? I'm fortunate enough to have both as my first legendaries, thinking i should up IE first due to better itemization, what do yall think?

Yep I upgraded ED simply because 3.1k int is too good to pass up.

[Deleted]

Hey everyone, I do not have the bracers and because of that i have been using [Lady and the Child]. My moonfire was on number #1 dmg often on some bosses in the NH and even more in mythic+ runs. Is this legendary being forgetten or understimated? or maybe not many people have it yet. It feels great at least, many aoe fights to. but perhaps the bracers are really much better then? Hope i get them sometime

Greetings

[darklogrus]

Right now I am currently specced into the Hybrid Build "SL/Inc/SS/SD". Should I be focusing more on another spec layout for NH? Also what are pro/con of the
SL/StFl/SS/SD over the other Hybrid Build?

[Slippykins]

Hey everyone, I do not have the bracers and because of that i have been using [Lady and the Child]. My moonfire was on number #1 dmg often on some bosses in the NH and even more in mythic+ runs. Is this legendary being forgetten or understimated? or maybe not many people have it yet. It feels great at least, many aoe fights to. but perhaps the bracers are really much better then? Hope i get them sometime

Greetings

LatC isn't a bad legendary -- it still boosts your damage and gains value in DoT-cleave and cleave situations. I would say it's similar in strength to the bracers, but does make your tier piece choice more awkward (you'll have to take the hat or gloves, which either blocks you from using ED or the Jacin's set).

Right now I am currently specced into the Hybrid Build "SL/Inc/SS/SD". Should I be focusing more on another spec layout for NH? Also what are pro/con of the
SL/StFl/SS/SD over the other Hybrid Build?

It really depends on the fight. SotF/SS/SD is a strong build as well, and you might prefer that for a few fights (Elisande, Skorpyron, Aluriel to name a few). StFl is not very strong unfortunately and is sort of an inbetween talent.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the amazing analysis and write up. I am quite comfortable with what talents to take for what fight, but my dilemma is usually which legendaries to equip (lucky, i know)

I have ED, Prydaz, IFE (940) and the new AoE dmg trinket, sadly 910 as I got it in the first week of the patch. For AoE fights I have been dropping ED for the trinket, but with mastery helping so much with starfall dmg (which would be my main spender) ED has almost 700 more AND a nice proc if I ever need to single-target. Also 100 more int.

But the burst is really nice too. Tough choices for Balance these days it seems. Interesting for sure

[Slippykins]

Thanks for the amazing analysis and write up. I am quite comfortable with what talents to take for what fight, but my dilemma is usually which legendaries to equip (lucky, i know)

I have ED, Prydaz, IFE (940) and the new AoE dmg trinket, sadly 910 as I got it in the first week of the patch. For AoE fights I have been dropping ED for the trinket, but with mastery helping so much with starfall dmg (which would be my main spender) ED has almost 700 more AND a nice proc if I ever need to single-target. Also 100 more int.

But the burst is really nice too. Tough choices for Balance these days it seems. Interesting for sure

Glad you enjoyed the post!

I would say ED/IFE is a pretty strong combo for you for any fight in NH. Just make sure you take Starlord so you can surgeweave with ED appropriately during the ST portions of the fights.

[Miraclous]

Hey everyone, I do not have the bracers and because of that i have been using [Lady and the Child]. My moonfire was on number #1 dmg often on some bosses in the NH and even more in mythic+ runs. Is this legendary being forgetten or understimated? or maybe not many people have it yet. It feels great at least, many aoe fights to. but perhaps the bracers are really much better then? Hope i get them sometime

Greetings

In addition to what Slippykins said, it is currently (almost?) impossible to properly sim the shoulders past 2 targets due to a problem in the coding (moonfire,cycle_targets=1 gets stuck in a repeat loop due to the second moonfire application of the legendary, once you have more than 2 targets). Because the shoulders are mainly good on multitarget situations you can see how this is a problem.

I've been running heroic/normal NH with it and really like the way the shoulders work. The dotting is fairly smart, so on a fight like Botanist for instance it saves a gcd everytime parasites spawn. Or you can dot the eyes on gul'dan in 2 gcd's instead of 4 (or none, because without legendary you spent so much time dotting it might not even be worth it anymore).

[Slippykins]

In addition to what Slippykins said, it is currently (almost?) impossible to properly sim the shoulders past 2 targets due to a problem in the coding (moonfire,cycle_targets=1 gets stuck in a repeat loop due to the second moonfire application of the legendary, once you have more than 2 targets).

Yep, definitely a drawback from optimising the code for non-LatC situations. But most of the benefit comes from the 20% moonfire buff so you can always just inflate moonfire damage by 20% without shoulders equipped to get a reasonable lower bound for the shoulders.

[Deleted]

Thanks both for your replies

Ye to my feeling, i love it. I use IFE ring on all fights. And ED on ST fights like krosus/Trilliax and Star Augur at the moment. For all other fights it feels that LatC is doing great with the AoE build. And moonfire really does alot of dmg on my logs. And yes i love the GCD u safe with only having to use moonfire once to have it on 2 targets. But it definely makes the tier set items abit more complicated. Going to have to gather more tier items because of this also, so I can swap with head and shoulders on some fights.

Fun thing or not fun .. i did ninjapull some trash sometimes with the moonfire 20y in the mythic+, but you get use to it. Oh well until I have the bracers (if that ever happens) i just deal with it like this. Eitherway my whole point is that the legendary is way better then I thought.

Maybe a extra question about IFE legendary ring, is it even worth to not use it on a fight? and go with ED/LatC combo instead?. Some fights you can only use CA/INCA twice anyway. Well right now I think IFE is fine for all fights, they last long enough. I just wonder if there is any fight where you would not use it ^^

what does surgeweave exactly means ? I know its a rotation with ED, but care to explain?
is it 100 AP > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > 0 AP

But when you play without BOTA its hard to do it properly midfight and my starfire is to slow to get another one off .. I guess you need 33.1% haste base or something.

this is why i bench my ED on 7 fights in nighthold at the moment, cuz i feel like im spending my time redotting, using starfall all the time and it does more dmg overall. Also feels that lunar strike is pretty good in NH aswell because of so much cleave.

Right now personally for me it does not worth to use ED on at least 7 of the fights, but its only been 1 week NH yet, can probably change my mind.

Greetz

[Zan15]

How are people handing Aoe spec in simc?
what changes are made to sims to sim the aoe spec?

do you just change to hectic adds?



what if any gear changes are you guys specifically making besides aoe trinkets?

i assume if you go full aoe spec you are dropping tier if the stats are better?


are you pushing mastery ahead of haste at some point lower then what you did before with ST push towards 33%?

[Slippykins]

Maybe a extra question about IFE legendary ring, is it even worth to not use it on a fight? and go with ED/LatC combo instead?. Some fights you can only use CA/INCA twice anyway. Well right now I think IFE is fine for all fights, they last long enough. I just wonder if there is any fight where you would not use it ^^

what does surgeweave exactly means ? I know its a rotation with ED, but care to explain?
is it 100 AP > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > Solar Wrath > Starsurge > Lunar Strike > Starsurge > 0 AP

But when you play without BOTA its hard to do it properly midfight and my starfire is to slow to get another one off .. I guess you need 33.1% haste base or something

So your question about IFE: yes, it's possible that IFE gives no benefit depending on fight length -- this was the case with Mythic Guarm when fights were ~4minutes. What happens there is that without IFE you'll get 2 Incarnations, and with IFE (nerfed) you would still get 2 Incarnations. So it does depend on fight length, but for longer than 4 minute fights it's unlikely.

If you want to know more about ED surgeweave, I recommend reading Gebuz's guide or popping into the Druid Discord and having a look at the #resources section.

How are people handing Aoe spec in simc?
what changes are made to sims to sim the aoe spec?

do you just change to hectic adds?



what if any gear changes are you guys specifically making besides aoe trinkets?

i assume if you go full aoe spec you are dropping tier if the stats are better?


are you pushing mastery ahead of haste at some point lower then what you did before with ST push towards 33%?

1. To sim the AoE spec, I simply sim a 5minute Patchwerk fight with either 2 or 3 targets selected in the middle column of Options. I do not use HAC (Hectic Add Cleave).
2. The only major gear changes will be legendary choice, but it typically follows the idea that IFE/ED is best for ST, and IFE/OI is best for cleave.
3. No I would not drop tier for better cleave-oriented stats, as most fights have ST phases and the tier set is too good in those scenarios.
4. The only time you would want to push 33% haste is if you use ED. If not, just focus on best ilvl pieces (>10 ilvls) and then optimise based on haste or mastery on the gear.

[Rohgraht]

Yo Slippy! Really nice work in this thread!

Say i wanna piss my raid leader off, and go totally cheese/padding on a hc night just for ranks. Could mastery pass haste in some cases? Simming my gear on Amr i sim higher changing to pure masterygems. What would a pure woe/Sof/SS/SD for 4 targets stat priority generally look like?