Draught of Souls on the GCD as of tomorrow, throughts?

[Xanthan]

Rampage's GCD scales with haste if you have enough of it. It just scales as if it had a base GCD of 2s instead of 1.5s. Its GCD will be MIN(1.5, 2/(1+haste%)). So under 33.33% haste, its GCD is 1.5s. Over 33.33%, it starts to be reduced. A 1.222s rampage GCD would be expected for 63.66% haste. A regular GCD would be .9165s at that haste, which you can see is the GCD between your other abilities under BL. That means you've got 25.89% haste without BL, so you'll see 1.5s rampages again in the sequence table as soon as BL falls off.

[bubbadubba]

compara how much damage this trinked does for Warriors i was realy surprice that it didnt get warrior specyfik nerf

They said in the bluenotes that they are looking into warriors and getting nerfed. Would find some wood and knock on it really hard.

[Archimtiros]

Rampage's GCD scales with haste if you have enough of it. It just scales as if it had a base GCD of 2s instead of 1.5s. Its GCD will be MIN(1.5, 2/(1+haste%)). So under 33.33% haste, its GCD is 1.5s. Over 33.33%, it starts to be reduced. A 1.222s rampage GCD would be expected for 63.66% haste. A regular GCD would be .9165s at that haste, which you can see is the GCD between your other abilities under BL. That means you've got 25.89% haste without BL, so you'll see 1.5s rampages again in the sequence table as soon as BL falls off.

We get that, but it's not the issue that's coming up.

[Deleted]

I sent you a PM Archimtiros, and thanks for that explanation Xanthan, I thought the GCD was always 1.5 no matter what

[Archimtiros]

I sent you a PM Archimtiros, and thanks for that explanation Xanthan, I thought the GCD was always 1.5 no matter what

Yeah, now that I realize it's because you hacked up my APL and made your own, that's why it's using GCDs out of order.

[ImpTaimer]

Two "solutions" if you're trying to take the lazy macro route and want to fit the entire trinket into Enrage.

A. Spec Outburst.

B. Wait till you get 4-pc.

[Gatsu]

Wont fall off with 4 set.

Archimtiros updated his FAQ:

With 4p:

BC+Ramp -> Draught -> RB -> BT -> OF


Without 4p:

BC+Ramp -> Draught -> BT -> RB -> OF
The only difference here is that Enrage will not last long enough to cover Draught and the following Raging Blow, so Bloodthirst is used first.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, downloaded Simcraft last nightly build and updated apl a bit to match new Archimtiros' priority and I'm registering a huge loss in dps, something near 40k (had even more without playing with apl), that seems a bit too much to me...
Checked sample rotation, that's correct, could it be such a big nerf?

NVM im dumb, had War machine.
That's still a 20k nerf from new sims

[Staubz]

another week , another trinket that didnt drop, FeelsBadMan

[Einchy]

Is anyone else' randomly switching to a 2 minute CD? It was happening to a Feral friend the other night and now it's happening to me, on LFR last night it was 2 minutes and it's also 2 minutes while on the dummies.

[thaddle3]

Some ppl seem to miss the obvious. DoS is so good for warriors cause we can stack so many cds on it compared to other classes. Already placing in on the gcd is a quite a nerf already. 3sec doing nothing when using DoS is 3sec not hitting other abilities like RB which hits like a truck. So if they nerf it even more for warriors it may be on par with say an equal ilvl paw which would be a shame.

Quite frankly, this hit's the nail on the head. While the trinket is really strong for Warriors, it's strength is being over inflated. The only thing people see is the amount of damage it's doing in Skada or logs. They don't realize their just seeing our burst damage from our CD window pumped into one ability (Fel-crazed frenzy I think?). The opportunity cost of using the trinket isn't reflected in those numbers. There wasn't as much of an opportunity cost when it was off the GCD, but now that it's on the GCD, I can just barely manage to fit OF into my BC window w/ RA. Forget about RB. If I want to ensure DoS gets the most out of my modifiers, RB is out of the picture. So I lose two RBs.... which is about 2.5 million damage for me. Considering the trinket does about 6-8 million during that burst window, trading 2.5 million damage is not insignificant... so really you're only getting about 3-5 million out of the trinket per use.

Further, this damage comes at the expense of other trinket effects that don't have opportunity costs (Ursoc's Paw anyone?).

Don't even get me started with the execute phase. I'm not exactly sure how many stacks of Juggernaut you need to make those big juicy Execute crits worth more than DoS, but the number's probably not that high. This makes using DoS counter productive during execute phase, unless you know you're not going to be able to maintain very many stacks of Juggernaught.

Given the opportunity costs that come with using this trinket, it won't take much of a nerf to destroy it for warrior's.... hope Blizzard realizes that.

[Jastall]

It's a bit annoying, but nothing major. It's still an extremely powerful trinket that did 14% of my DPS when we killed Heroic Krosus last night.

Blizz is probably going to nerf it again; here's hoping it doesn't get overnerfed, because topping meters feels pretty good even if it's in my relatively casual guild.

[Deleted]

Quite frankly, this hit's the nail on the head. While the trinket is really strong for Warriors, it's strength is being over inflated. The only thing people see is the amount of damage it's doing in Skada or logs. They don't realize their just seeing our burst damage from our CD window pumped into one ability (Fel-crazed frenzy I think?). The opportunity cost of using the trinket isn't reflected in those numbers. There wasn't as much of an opportunity cost when it was off the GCD, but now that it's on the GCD, I can just barely manage to fit OF into my BC window w/ RA. Forget about RB. If I want to ensure DoS gets the most out of my modifiers, RB is out of the picture. So I lose two RBs.... which is about 2.5 million damage for me. Considering the trinket does about 6-8 million during that burst window, trading 2.5 million damage is not insignificant... so really you're only getting about 3-5 million out of the trinket per use.

Further, this damage comes at the expense of other trinket effects that don't have opportunity costs (Ursoc's Paw anyone?).

Don't even get me started with the execute phase. I'm not exactly sure how many stacks of Juggernaut you need to make those big juicy Execute crits worth more than DoS, but the number's probably not that high. This makes using DoS counter productive during execute phase, unless you know you're not going to be able to maintain very many stacks of Juggernaught.

Given the opportunity costs that come with using this trinket, it won't take much of a nerf to destroy it for warrior's.... hope Blizzard realizes that.

This...currently my 895 rending paw is giving me 2.5k more dps than my 880 DoS on the latest nightly build (no 4p atm). Which feels inline with tonights raid where it felt like DoS didn't do much compared to last week when it felt like a monster. So before i get 4p it will sit in the bags due to GCD nerf. All in all i lost about 4.5% overall DPS due to the nerf.

[Deleted]

So you want only to use the most powerfull attacks inside BC and DoS make's it hard, but I think I found a good opener.

So the most damaging spells are OF and DoS itself so to make them do the most damage inside BC I use the opener down below:

BC+Ramp -> OF -> BT -> Draught

This gives you the most damage of OF and Draught and doesn't fuck up the BC+OF cooldowns.

Note that I thought of this without the 4p in mind and I still don't know if this is the best possible opener so bare in mind that.

edit: You'll have to have BL or very good haste to have all the Draughts ticks as critical with this opener

[Archimtiros]

Archimtiros updated his FAQ:


- - - Updated - - -

Btw, downloaded Simcraft last nightly build and updated apl a bit to match new Archimtiros' priority and I'm registering a huge loss in dps, something near 40k (had even more without playing with apl), that seems a bit too much to me...
Checked sample rotation, that's correct, could it be such a big nerf?

NVM im dumb, had War machine.
That's still a 20k nerf from new sims

There's a bug with Draught in game, that I had to replicate inside SimC, leading to the loss; which anyone who's been following my twitter might have seen some early information on.

I'm preparing a bigger post today/tomorrow to explain the issue and how it impacts the use of Draught, but it's still the top Fury trinket by a notable margin.

- - - Updated - - -

This...currently my 895 rending paw is giving me 2.5k more dps than my 880 DoS on the latest nightly build (no t4 atm). Which feels inline with tonights raid where it felt like DoS didn't do much compared to last week when it felt like a monster. So before i get t4 it will sit in the bags due to GCD nerf. All in all i lost about 4.5% overall DPS due to the nerf.

While the loss sounds about right, I highly doubt that your 895 paw is beating an 880 Draught. I'd make sure your sim is setup and actually using the trinket correctly.

[Deleted]

There's a bug with Draught in game, that I had to replicate inside SimC, leading to the loss; which anyone who's been following my twitter might have seen some early information on.

I'm preparing a bigger post today/tomorrow to explain the issue and how it impacts the use of Draught, but it's still the top Fury trinket by a notable margin.

- - - Updated - - -



While the loss sounds about right, I highly doubt that your 895 paw is beating an 880 Draught. I'd make sure your sim is setup and actually using the trinket correctly.

Archi - are you the person responsible for the SimC fury setup?

It's off topic but, where do Fury warriors congregate when they want to discuss all things Fury? I'm a migrating Feral and they have a discord but I can't find anything similar for wars.

On topic - Is draught really that outstanding? Icy Veins places it top but not by a huge margin.. are their sim results inaccurate/out of date? I'm just leveling my warrior while calculating the path of least resistance to be ready for M NH and if draught is this important I welcome any change that means I am not enslaved by RNG.

[Archimtiros]

Archi - are you the person responsible for the SimC fury setup?

It's off topic but, where do Fury warriors congregate when they want to discuss all things Fury? I'm a migrating Feral and they have a discord but I can't find anything similar for wars.

On topic - Is draught really that outstanding? Icy Veins places it top but not by a huge margin.. are their sim results inaccurate/out of date? I'm just leveling my warrior while calculating the path of least resistance to be ready for M NH and if draught is this important I welcome any change that means I am not enslaved by RNG.

Yes.

There's a discord: https://goo.gl/CGk2gT

Yes, Draught is pretty outstanding. IV puts it at the top because of this, and it also gains even more when paired with the second (non-legendary) trinket on that list, due to lining up with CDs better.

[FASTFORCE]

To be honest, and this is my personal opinion, they won't be nerfing the trinket anytime soon. They had the chance to do it and did not. They said the same thing regarding shadow priest S2M and did not address it until the end of the tier. And this trinket is what makes us actually competitive which means that without it warriors are not doing so hot (or as much - 4pc is also strong for both specs).

If they do choose to nerf DOS it will probably be with the tank trinket tuning which will not happen until after the 'mythic race'.

[Deleted]

Yes.

There's a discord: https://goo.gl/CGk2gT

Yes, Draught is pretty outstanding. IV puts it at the top because of this, and it also gains even more when paired with the second (non-legendary) trinket on that list, due to lining up with CDs better.

Thanks for your help, I'll get myself on there to listen in to the discussions. Appreciated.

[Deleted]

While the loss sounds about right, I highly doubt that your 895 paw is beating an 880 Draught. I'd make sure your sim is setup and actually using the trinket correctly.

Here are my SimC import if you have time and interest to test yourself. For me 860 arcanocrystal and 895 paw wins over 895 paw and 880 arcanocrystal with a couple of hundred dps (not as large as my initial clame). Did some ingame testing to whilst not as reliable showing slightly different result with DoS setup winning slightly instead. But due to the simplicity of paw i would guess that in a raid the non DoS setup would yield more damage. But perhaps i should continue using DoS so that i'm used to it when i get 4p, which should make it much better.

pastebin com / CMBvkJTV

URL is split as i'm not allowed to post any :S.

[Deleted]

Your haste is useless for half of your BC window with this trinket and 4p will give pretty good enrage uptime, will mastery become the best stat maybe?