Nighthold difficulty

[Battlebeard]

Link logs to prove you're "doing nothing wrong", or stop posting your ludicrous statements

I should learn how to log and do it.

However on my own part, as a Rogue, EVEN if I would do a lot of wrong things, which I don't, one rogue messing up should not cause this many wipes. In normal mode, you should be able to carry at least 1 player.

Irrelevant though since I'm personally playing well, but still.

[Aureli]

Im always surprised how much people can struggle even in normal.

[Akka]

I'm more surprised at the idiocy of people's expectations.
Like "we didn't clean the raid the first week, it's obviously overtund ! We could faceroll EN the first week, that was good tuning !".

[Sonnillon]

Im always surprised how much people can struggle even in normal.

Maybe it's time to start not being surprised. PUGing is "fun, fun, fun!!!". But I guess how difficult it is depends on what group you run it with...

I have had the chance to experience both ends of the "spectrum" - PUG raiding with 14 people and people around 870 ilvl vs organised group raiding with 880-890 ilvl and 27 people. Don't have a real comparing factor and only killed few bosses on normal, but basing my own opinion on the chat I read in guild.

When an overgeared group gets away with loads of mistakes (as I did see from some of the kills and comments) then group which does it on the ilvl it's meant to be done doesn't get any room for mistakes and DPS numbers have to be high as well.

It's perfectly normal that people and groups who out gear the instance plow right through it. And I guess no matter how raid is tuned (ofc there is the exception of ToV) most probably it'll always happen.

If you happen to raid with a guild/set group and you don't overgear the place, then I think that NH gives a nice "progression" and learning curve where some bosses are easier then others and actually requires people in those sort of group to focus on tactics. Though people seem not that fond of doing actually progression and seem to expect that bosses just fall over and give epics as it has been in some cases.

It's a nice challenge on higher difficulties (based on comments) which is nice, I like the challange.

However PUGing the place adds another layer of "difficulty" to the mix. You can either end up in a good group with high ilvl requirement or a bad group with high ilvl requirement. And in any case cause NH presents people with loads of personal responsibility then w/o communication and people actually trying the place will be made more difficult when it is suppose to be.

With PUGs the difficulty is luck of the draw... and if your's has run out... too bad. With a fixed group all are probably achievable in N/HC without that much pain and suffering.

[Halobob87]

I also feel like fights are having a ridiculous amount of mechanics compared to bosses back in vanilla/bc.

Maybe couse most of vanilla bosses where pretty much overtuned training dummies?

The only figth in NH that feels a bit too messy is Botanist.

[Nitros14]

Maybe couse most of vanilla bosses where pretty much overtuned training dummies?

The only figth in NH that feels a bit too messy is Botanist.

You get into a rhythm with Botanist though. His abilities always happen in the same order.

Call of night goes out, find a buddy.
Plasma spheres go out, kill the melee one, then second 5 seconds later.
Parasite debuff goes out, hold dispel until plasma spheres are dead.
Dispel and deal with parasites, Solar Collapse goes out now, dodge.
Run out of the Controlled Chaos.
Call of night debuffs fade, new call of night debuffs, find a buddy. Cycle repeats.
Plasma Spheres go out...

[crashley]

Quick question,
We finished our raiding week with a not-so-bad 9/10H down. Is it possible to go and down 1 or 2 bosses in MM or do we need to kill H Guldan First ?
Thanks !

[Deleted]

Quick question,
We finished our raiding week with a not-so-bad 9/10H down. Is it possible to go and down 1 or 2 bosses in MM or do we need to kill H Guldan First ?
Thanks !

You can do mythic, there are no requirements for it for quite some time now.

[Deleted]

No, I am not trolling.

And it was in various different pugs. Haven't done any guildruns in there.

And it's easy to just say "you are bad" but if you read this thread I have been trying to explain that the groups haven't been that bad. On avarage every DPS have been at 400k. Often you can identify bad apples and say like "Hey dude, you failed again, if you keep doing it, you get replaced" but we have not had any single player who has been worse than the rest.

I can't point finger to a single player or a single tactic for the boss. Everyone claim to have watched videos and read tacts and everyone has 880+ gear. And you notice when you play that there are no major mistakes. We don't instantly wipe becuase people fail something, we wipe due to insane raid damage, and people dying from passive damage of the bosses abilities. It's just too much dmg/hp on the boss.

This is why it's so extremely frustrating. I don't have anyone to blame and I don't see how we could have done anything differently. The ONLY common denominator for each of these 15-20 different groups I've been in the raid itself. It simply seem to hard for ANY pug even in normal mode.

And this would be fine I guess, but you know pugs. This week I can get invited without any kills and just knowing tacts. Next week people will stop caring if you know the bosses and demand achievements. Next week it will be close to impossible to even find a group...

Then your groups don't have enough healing I guess. Because 400k avg dps is more than enough to clear normal. In our first run through we had some people at 550-600k, sure, but we also had people, like I said, doing 200-250k (if I recall correctly we had 2 dps below tanks on most pulls). The only real dps-check is Krosus (who is literally a race against time). All other bosses are just "do mechanics right and spend any non-mechanic-filled time on boss". So if people have in fact read tactics and have 880+ iLvl, there's no way you can wipe that much. Sorry dude.

[EzG]

Quick question,
We finished our raiding week with a not-so-bad 9/10H down. Is it possible to go and down 1 or 2 bosses in MM or do we need to kill H Guldan First ?
Thanks !

If you can't kill gul'dan H mythic will be rough. Scorpion should be an easy kill but after that I would suggest killing gul'dan before you try anomaly.

[Deleted]

If you can't kill gul'dan H mythic will be rough. Scorpion should be an easy kill but after that I would suggest killing gul'dan before you try anomaly.

guild im in is 'only' 8/10 hc from last reset with 2tries(no serious pulls cause raid time was basicly up) on elisande depending on what officers decide after elisande we might just go try M skorpyron before hc guldan. But how much harder in anoamly then on M compared to hc?

[EzG]

guild im in is 'only' 8/10 hc from last reset with 2tries(no serious pulls cause raid time was basicly up) on elisande depending on what officers decide after elisande we might just go try M skorpyron before hc guldan. But how much harder in anoamly then on M compared to hc?

I think he is on par with gul'dan. Maybe a tiny bit harder. But why try him when you can get tier from gul'dan which might be a bit easier IMO.

[Spodumene]

Anyone here cleared normal yet? We planning to do it in the afternoom tomorrow... do you think 4 hours are enough for a 885-890 full mythic geared guild?

for what its worth my guild of 870-875's couldn't pull out enough dps to kill Tichondrius (or maybe we lacked a proper strategy for our group comp) - enraged at 15%. everything before him was lol roflstomp easy. expect to 1 shot the first 4-5 bosses

[Deleted]

I think he is on par with gul'dan. Maybe a tiny bit harder. But why try him when you can get tier from gul'dan which might be a bit easier IMO.

its just a idea that came up last night from some people.

[Osmeric]

for what its worth my guild of 870-875's couldn't pull out enough dps to kill Tichondrius (or maybe we lacked a proper strategy for our group comp) - enraged at 15%. everything before him was lol roflstomp easy. expect to 1 shot the first 4-5 bosses

It helps to stack and AoE down the bats during the dream phases, since the bubbles they drop give players a big dps buff.

[Nitros14]

Re: Too many mechanics.

You guys ever do Paragons of the Klaxxi?

[kamuimac]

I'm more surprised at the idiocy of people's expectations.
Like "we didn't clean the raid the first week, it's obviously overtund ! We could faceroll EN the first week, that was good tuning !".

because people like clearing stuff in 1 week ? this possibility never occured to you ? very few look for artificial chaleges in virtual world when they have real chalenges irl.

[Akka]

because people like clearing stuff in 1 week ? this possibility never occured to you ? very few look for artificial chaleges in virtual world when they have real chalenges irl.

People like to win too, doesn't win that losing means something is badly tuned or broken. Your argument is completely nonsensical.
And if someone doesn't want artificial challenges then playing a game is obviously not the good thing to do, watching a movie would be more adequate.

[Marston]

Re: Too many mechanics.

You guys ever do Paragons of the Klaxxi?

Remember when Blizzard planned to change the order every week? That would have been total clusterfuck city and I would probably have loved it, because I lover Closterfuck fights.

[Battlebeard]

Oh well, finally I managed to clear it.

Had to fake an achievement to get into the group though. We killed all 10 bosses in a few hours and it was one of the best pug groups I've seen. Basically no fails from anyone, including myself. DPS was about 500k on each DPS, I was one of the lowest with 450k ish, so you needed quite the dps to do it :/

Just feels good to have the achievement, maybe I can find decent groups in the future. All my wipes might just have been "first week syndrome" or something, cause last week was a complete nightmare.