[Megathread] Nintendo Switch

[OGXanos]

I'd venture Scorpio will have one major title to sell it at launch and it's likely Halo 6. I'd also bet only scorpio can play it at 60FPS. But we're getting a tad off topic here now.

[Beefsquatch]

Actually in store preorders are still available at most walmarts and targets. Online and gamestop in store preorders are the only thing sold out. Most people don't even realize you can preorder the damn thing in your walmarts layaway section...

Also worth noting Gamestop still had allotments when they stopped taking preorders and claimed they where "sold out" because like with every new hardware launch, Gamestop is going to put those into forced bundles with 4 games and an extra controller to gouge money out of consumers.

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Actually the most recent rumored specs from DF, that actually have good sources sound like a $400 system confirmed and barely an upgrade over the PS4 Pro. Won't be sold at a loss at all.

Scorpio is still going to have a meh cpu like the One/PS4/PS4pro, it's still going to be an affordable APU. The only thing worst then people over estimating Switch specs is people thinking Scorpio is going to be some $1500 PC equivalent.

Also the scorpio is going to bomb hard in sales just like the PS4 Pro has. The market has spoken loud and clear, and enthusiasts consoles doesn't seem to be a thing anyone cares about in mass.

The Pro has actually been selling quite well, it's exceeded the expectations of Sony. But yeah, tflops or flippy flops don't really matter.

Regardless, it still seems like the Switch is quite underpowered on the "home console" portion of it's hybrid nature. With the rumored 4k or "pro" dock being in the works though (both the leak and patents) that might change. I also can't wait until it's released so someone can take it apart and tell us what it's REALLY capable of.

[ati87]

The only way its going to release at $400 is if MS is willing to eat a loss on the console. It was rumored to be GTX1070 in power, which that alone costs $400+ and AMD's Vega chips aren't even due for at least several months now. Prices only drop when there are new products to drive down their price or fab shrink etc.

I also find it kinda odd that MS will, at that point, have been talking up the Scorpio a solid 1.5 years before releasing it, and its not even a new generation. I smell desperation.

You know out both Sony and Microsoft are selling their respective consoles at a lose when released right? Nintendo is the only one that has to make a profit from day 1.

Microsoft should have (I assume so looking at the current version) that being more expensive then Sony doesn't work, the original Xbox One was more expensive because of the Kinetic and Microsoft dropped it for that very reason.

Originally the PS3 was also more expensive then the Xbox 360 and that was reflected in the sales numbers.

Price mater in the sense that you don't want to overprice yourself , the price of the original Wii was a bigger factor in creating the fad that the silly motion control fad.

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The Pro has actually been selling quite well, it's exceeded the expectations of Sony. But yeah, tflops or flippy flops don't really matter.

Regardless, it still seems like the Switch is quite underpowered on the "home console" portion of it's hybrid nature. With the rumored 4k or "pro" dock being in the works though (both the leak and patents) that might change. I also can't wait until it's released so someone can take it apart and tell us what it's REALLY capable of.

Would a 4k dock work though?

The dock itself doesn't include any hardware and a remote GPU is kind of expensive and totally not ready for mass production.

I would have gone with a dual hardware device from the start and just upgraded the dock with every generation but that means the Switch itself has to be able to a bit different since it still has some work to do when docked.

[Suporex]

Actually in store preorders are still available at most walmarts and targets. Online and gamestop in store preorders are the only thing sold out. Most people don't even realize you can preorder the damn thing in your walmarts layaway section...

Walmart ended it after Monday. It works differently than Gamestop who gets a allotment. We basically did preorders until they said not to anymore. My store got about 40 preorders. Which is more than we got for PS4 or Xbox One launches.

[Beefsquatch]

Would a 4k dock work though?

The dock itself doesn't include any hardware and a remote GPU is kind of expensive and totally not ready for mass production.

I would have gone with a dual hardware device from the start and just upgraded the dock with every generation but that means the Switch itself has to be able to a bit different since it still has some work to do when docked.

I think it could work, external GPUs have gotten less expensive since their introduction as a premium premium device. Right now, from what I'm seeing, they go for around 250-500 depending on the GPU. Nintendo could put out an HD/Pro/4k dock, with a GPU to boost it up to PS4 Pro parity (probably a bit under it tbh) for around the 200 price point.

If they went with an actual SCD to compliment the dock and switch itself, I think it could confuse and put off consumers. Including it in the dock (which is mostly a shell as of right now) would cause less confusion since the dock is what makes the whole "hybrid" thing work. But yeah, I think that is Nintendo's plan to put out updated Switch's every so often.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not really seeing it yet. Unless they have found a decent way to use the nVidia chip mostly for CPU processing and they can switch that on demand (even then it will become a bottle neck sooner than later) and furthermore actually sacrificed a couple of lanes to fully connect the USB-C I don't see how they'd properly connect an external graphics chip/card in the dock with the processor in the chip. I guess this is one of the first things we will hear once people take the thing apart. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Imho people give their engineering department a little bit too much credit here. If they had such plans they'd have probably announced them big time, seeing how that might be quite the feat if they get it to work properly - in an affortable manner.

[Immitis]

A 4k dock would be pointless because I very much doubt tendo would allow games that aren't allowed to run undocked
People holding out hope that this is going to be anything more than a glorified Gameboy player are going to be disappointed. Maybe next gen

[ati87]

Not really seeing it yet. Unless they have found a decent way to use the nVidia chip mostly for CPU processing and they can switch that on demand (even then it will become a bottle neck sooner than later) and furthermore actually sacrificed a couple of lanes to fully connect the USB-C I don't see how they'd properly connect an external graphics chip/card in the dock with the processor in the chip. I guess this is one of the first things we will hear once people take the thing apart. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Imho people give their engineering department a little bit too much credit here. If they had such plans they'd have probably announced them big time, seeing how that might be quite the feat if they get it to work properly - in an affortable manner.

Thinking about that problem as well and the only way it would be possible with the current switch is to make forget about the switch itself and release a fully powered dock.

TBH if they did this they could have just as well kept the Wii U (not really) and just killed of the DS.

If Nintendo wanted this route they needed to do it from the start, where the device had the proper connections and where the CPU needed to be I5 to be a bit future-proof plus the gpu of the graphics card should be at least powerfull enough to run 720 with proper FPS.

It would/should be possible but just the CPU alone would be expensive and Nintendo would probably have to sell the device at a higher pricepoint then the PS4.

[Beefsquatch]

A 4k dock would be pointless because I very much doubt tendo would allow games that aren't allowed to run undocked
People holding out hope that this is going to be anything more than a glorified Gameboy player are going to be disappointed. Maybe next gen

It would be the same situation with the PS4/Pro and XB1/Scorpio. Different settings..except that Ninty would need 3 settings rather than 2 that the others require. HH, Docked, 4k. My theory if this comes into play, anyway.

Not really seeing it yet. Unless they have found a decent way to use the nVidia chip mostly for CPU processing and they can switch that on demand (even then it will become a bottle neck sooner than later) and furthermore actually sacrificed a couple of lanes to fully connect the USB-C I don't see how they'd properly connect an external graphics chip/card in the dock with the processor in the chip. I guess this is one of the first things we will hear once people take the thing apart. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Imho people give their engineering department a little bit too much credit here. If they had such plans they'd have probably announced them big time, seeing how that might be quite the feat if they get it to work properly - in an affortable manner.

I don't know the specific tech required for it, but techgaf (technies on neogaf) have said it is possible. Unlikely to happen, but possible. Like you said though, it probably won't happen and we will have to see the guts of the Switch.

[MatadorMedia]

[draykorinee]

It would be the same situation with the PS4/Pro and XB1/Scorpio. Different settings..except that Ninty would need 3 settings rather than 2 that the others require. HH, Docked, 4k. My theory if this comes into play, anyway.

I'm sorry but being able to upscale the graphics on the switch to 4k sounds like such a monumental waste of time.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm sorry but being able to upscale the graphics on the switch to 4k sounds like such a monumental waste of time.

I don't think upscaling is really the right word/approach here. Otherwise you could just led your modern TV do that (and probably better).

[draykorinee]

I don't think upscaling is really the right word/approach here. Otherwise you could just led your modern TV do that (and probably better).

True enough, having 4k textures etc on these games also equally a monumental waste of time.

[Cattleya]

Wow, it never ends, now that it's official that the Switch is weak in terms of hardware, people are making up imaginary future docks that up its specs to 4k-able heights.

[Beefsquatch]

Wow, it never ends, now that it's official that the Switch is weak in terms of hardware, people are making up imaginary future docks that up its specs to 4k-able heights.

We don't know how "weak" the Switch really is, not until the next month or so. And that Foxconn leak that turned out to be true also had info on another much more powerful device. Well, a devkit. It's where the speculation is coming from, and there's also the patents for the SCD.

Could be a big ole lie, but since that foxconn employee was right about pretty much everything else on the Switch, it peaks peoples curiosity.

[Immitis]

Finally. Pooping while playing sold as a feature

[Remilia]

Really shouldn't take too much stock in a dock that'll help with processing. While it's always possible, much like using Thunderbolt external dGPU dock, it adds a layer of software complexity. I'm also not really sure if it's still only a AMD/Intel x86 thing (they developed it together). If using as a dual GPU type then it's just be a worse SLI and that requires additional software complexity along with the dock needs to be the same power GPU for AFR though more flexible for SFR dual GPU. While not entirely sure on this, it'd also mean the CPU would need extra PCIge lanes to accommodate. It's too much of a headache to bother really along with bugs and micro stutters.

[Tech614]

The Pro has actually been selling quite well, it's exceeded the expectations of Sony.

Exceeded expectations so far that it's rotting on shelves while the PS4 Slim is flying off them.

Sure thing. Pretty sure the PS4 Pro is still not even at a 1 mil install base WW, and is readily available and has been since launch so stock is not an issue. People just don't see the point.

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We don't know how "weak" the Switch really is.

Not technically, but we know that it can only run the highest end Wii U game to date at 900p at full clock speeds and at the Wii U's 720p when undocked. We know Splatoon 2 was shown at 720p, SMO was shown at 720p and we know 3rd party ports of AAA games are basically non existent at this point.

It's a safe bet to assume the Switch is to the Wii U as the PS4 was to the Xbox One. Which is pretty weak.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Really shouldn't take too much stock in a dock that'll help with processing. While it's always possible, much like using Thunderbolt external dGPU dock, it adds a layer of software complexity. I'm also not really sure if it's still only a AMD/Intel x86 thing (they developed it together). If using as a dual GPU type then it's just be a worse SLI and that requires additional software complexity along with the dock needs to be the same power GPU for AFR though more flexible for SFR dual GPU. While not entirely sure on this, it'd also mean the CPU would need extra PCIge lanes to accommodate. It's too much of a headache to bother really along with bugs and micro stutters.

The only sensible way for this (at least somewhat) would be imho trying to use it as an eGPU with USB3.1. Using dualGPU/SLI hardly offers benefits for most games on PC and doing some wonky stuff doesn't strike me as a enhancement exactly. But how they'd connect that properly with the CPU (which actually a CPU/GPU hybrid, isn't it?) leaves me puzzeled though. Seems like a lot of effort to set that up, as you already pointed out. I'm not aware of an existing protocol for that.

[Tech614]

Mind linking your evidence for that number on the PS4 Pro?

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...us-last-month/

I'm sure captain technical who lives in "link plz" world cause they're out of the loop is going to think EU is making up some massive amount of Pros though

130k LTD in Japan.

500k neighborhood LTD in NA.

Sony isn't releasing specific numbers on the thing at all.

Do the math, it's a bomb. Hell, Amazon had the damn thing on sale on cyber monday. Yes, Amazon had a 1 week old product on sale. Do the math.