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  1. #1

    What's better for raiding: frost or unholy?

    Title says it all. not sure which to invest in alternative weapon AP, whether I should be putting it on BotFP or Apocalypse.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Frost. Easy, have big numbers and is actually fun to play.

  3. #3
    High end I would prob say Frost. BoS is strong and the old OB/RA build seems to be not to far behind either (1 of top 10 frost parses on krosus is OB/RA rest is BoS).
    I go OB/RA build just based on its not as static and requires pure uptime on the boss.
    But from I can see Frost pulls ahead of unholy just slightly

  4. #4
    unholy is cool, if you're a cool kid you'll pick unholy.

    are you a cool kid op?

    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Unholy is more fun but it requires more set up and easier to mess up. In higher difficulties you want the easier build to worry about mechanics. Frost by far is the better spec and requires zero thought to play well especially if you are machine gun spec. On almost all fights frost will be the better option.

    Bother specs are very balanced right now with frost still being on top. It has more dps, brainlesss to play, has cool animations, better cleave, No pets!, easier to get stat priorities.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KronosIII View Post
    Unholy is more fun but it requires more set up and easier to mess up. In higher difficulties you want the easier build to worry about mechanics. Frost by far is the better spec and requires zero thought to play well especially if you are machine gun spec. On almost all fights frost will be the better option.

    Bother specs are very balanced right now with frost still being on top. It has more dps, brainlesss to play, has cool animations, better cleave, No pets!, easier to get stat priorities.
    Frost is NOT brainless, not by far. Difference in DPS from "brainless dpsing" as Frost for me to actually concentrating on the rotation is over 100k dps.
    If I just sit the spamming Frost Strike -> Oblit -> Frost Strike -> Oblit and then proc Rime when needed (brainless dps) to actually use my Runic Power correctly, saving it when I should, using it when I should. Spamming it to get new runes up to use up my new Killing Machine faster, Check my runes to see if I can spam Frost Strike all out now and still have RP and to keep Icy Touch up before it drops of etc is a gigantic difference in damage.

    But sure the LOWEST dps you do without thinking at all is kinda high on frost which makes it a good raiding spec. Especially if u help to raid-lead as I do (cant concentrate all the time on the rotation). But to call it brainless is not correct. Atleast not if u want to push some high numbers. Keeping runes low to kepe Frozen Pulse up but still balancing the Runic Power high enough to abuse Killing Machines Proccs correctly does require both pre-planning and a good level of risk-taking based on Runic Empowerement proccs.

  7. #7
    Frost is far from brainless when it comes to maximizing dps. The difference in just smashing buttons and paying attention to procs and lining up cooldowns for max cleave / aoe is pretty big.

    Breath spec is even more rune gaming, pretty skill intensive. Lots of time spent on a dummy learning how to best max uptime of breath.
    []http://sig.lanjelin.com/img/tanro.png[/]

  8. #8
    The amount of times ive heard "Oh i cant do dps like you do as unh but i can as frost" pretty much summarize how difficult frost is to play no matter the build.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Rixarius's Avatar
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    They're both in a pretty good spot. Play whichever you want.
    I'm just here to complain, if I'm being honest

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    It makes me laugh when people say frost isn't brainless. It is the most mind numbingly brainless spec I have ever played. Even with breath. Unholy feels like a complete and thought out spec. You all know in your heart of hearts the only thing easier than frost is beastmaster hunter.


    to answer the OP. Frost is most likely the answer unless you can get VERY specific unholy legendaries in which case it would depend on the fight (ones where you have to get out of melee range frequently UH mastery build would pull ahead)

    I do both but I admit that I only play Unholy from time to time to keep myself interested in the class because frost makes me sleepy.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kendros View Post
    The amount of times ive heard "Oh i cant do dps like you do as unh but i can as frost" pretty much summarize how difficult frost is to play no matter the build.
    Sure Unholy is the hard 2 of the speccs. Cause u need to keep track of debuffs on target. But cept for that its not something that big.
    Bug Frost is way more micro-management.
    Sure IF u play braindead-frost you will do WAAAAY more dmg then playing Braindead unholy. But to play frost properly. Not overcapping stuff. Popping Remorselss Winter at the correct time (nope u dont pop it on CD on the OB/RA build) etc and all the rest I posted above makes frost for a not to bad "worst case" braindead build and a good "maximising" build

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathululock View Post
    It makes me laugh when people say frost isn't brainless. It is the most mind numbingly brainless spec I have ever played. Even with breath. Unholy feels like a complete and thought out spec. You all know in your heart of hearts the only thing easier than frost is beastmaster hunter.


    to answer the OP. Frost is most likely the answer unless you can get VERY specific unholy legendaries in which case it would depend on the fight (ones where you have to get out of melee range frequently UH mastery build would pull ahead)

    I do both but I admit that I only play Unholy from time to time to keep myself interested in the class because frost makes me sleepy.
    U get sleepy from having something to do each global cooldown (atleast with enough haste and 4-set) and have to do a new decision each GCD? U are strange mate.
    Sure the base rotation is idioticly easy. But the difference between a good FDK and a bad one with the same gear would go from say 400k dps to up to 600k dps
    A spec where skill is deciding up to 50% of the damage is just proof of that its not a braindead spec.

    If u think landing in the 20-procentile in the logs is "ok" for you then sure. This is a really braindead spec for you

  12. #12
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    they are pretty close to eachother so play what you want but frost is a no-brainer to play so if you got problems keepin eyes on mechanics that spec is the way to go
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  13. #13
    Deleted
    Haha this thread delivers.

  14. #14
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    UH players QQ more that unholy is more skilled, sure thing guys .

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    High end I would prob say Frost. BoS is strong and the old OB/RA build seems to be not to far behind either (1 of top 10 frost parses on krosus is OB/RA rest is BoS).
    I go OB/RA build just based on its not as static and requires pure uptime on the boss.
    But from I can see Frost pulls ahead of unholy just slightly
    this is just not true, BoS doesnt live on a really high uptime. As long as it last with all your CDs and pots/trinkets 30-40s can be well enough. Read the Discord paper about Breath and why uptime doesnt matter as much as ppl think.

    i play bos w/o CoF or Horn of Valor, legendaries or 4p and i still do about 100k more dps than with OB/RA. it is possible even if your tanks move the boss.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    Frost is NOT brainless, not by far. Difference in DPS from "brainless dpsing" as Frost for me to actually concentrating on the rotation is over 100k dps.
    If I just sit the spamming Frost Strike -> Oblit -> Frost Strike -> Oblit and then proc Rime when needed (brainless dps) to actually use my Runic Power correctly, saving it when I should, using it when I should. Spamming it to get new runes up to use up my new Killing Machine faster, Check my runes to see if I can spam Frost Strike all out now and still have RP and to keep Icy Touch up before it drops of etc is a gigantic difference in damage.

    But sure the LOWEST dps you do without thinking at all is kinda high on frost which makes it a good raiding spec. Especially if u help to raid-lead as I do (cant concentrate all the time on the rotation). But to call it brainless is not correct. Atleast not if u want to push some high numbers. Keeping runes low to kepe Frozen Pulse up but still balancing the Runic Power high enough to abuse Killing Machines Proccs correctly does require both pre-planning and a good level of risk-taking based on Runic Empowerement proccs.
    Look we can argue for days on this. To myself and many others frost is a very brainless and easy to pickup spec. Not that it means it is not fun. I am frost myself also right now it is great. But compared to specs like unholy on which even the best players have said is a very advanced spec on guides used on icy veins and many others.

    I'm sorry but my opinion is the spec is one of the easiest to pick up, understand, master. That is the truth. Where unholy has a huge skill ceiling which is fantastic also. Don't get upset over others opinions so seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    Sure Unholy is the hard 2 of the speccs. Cause u need to keep track of debuffs on target. But cept for that its not something that big.
    Bug Frost is way more micro-management.
    Sure IF u play braindead-frost you will do WAAAAY more dmg then playing Braindead unholy. But to play frost properly. Not overcapping stuff. Popping Remorselss Winter at the correct time (nope u dont pop it on CD on the OB/RA build) etc and all the rest I posted above makes frost for a not to bad "worst case" braindead build and a good "maximising" build

    - - - Updated - - -



    U get sleepy from having something to do each global cooldown (atleast with enough haste and 4-set) and have to do a new decision each GCD? U are strange mate.
    Sure the base rotation is idioticly easy. But the difference between a good FDK and a bad one with the same gear would go from say 400k dps to up to 600k dps
    A spec where skill is deciding up to 50% of the damage is just proof of that its not a braindead spec.

    If u think landing in the 20-procentile in the logs is "ok" for you then sure. This is a really braindead spec for you
    Hey buddy I'll one up you just to smash it in your face at how brainless frost is since you brought up "percentile" into this I think with your spelling lol. Look at the huge dps difference loss in percentile when playing as unholy compared to frost. Go ahead... check some fights. I already did the math. Unholy gets heavily punished for not playing correctly compared to frost. There is mountains of logs and proof pointing to you being wrong. Frost is a brainless spec, with even Ret pallys having more thought put into it. Frost is even rewarded for spending all their runes like a dingleberry.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    Sure Unholy is the hard 2 of the speccs. Cause u need to keep track of debuffs on target. But cept for that its not something that big.
    Bug Frost is way more micro-management.
    Sure IF u play braindead-frost you will do WAAAAY more dmg then playing Braindead unholy. But to play frost properly. Not overcapping stuff. Popping Remorselss Winter at the correct time (nope u dont pop it on CD on the OB/RA build) etc and all the rest I posted above makes frost for a not to bad "worst case" braindead build and a good "maximising" build
    You should try unholy first before thinking frost has more micro management. First off you have to manage wounds, that by far already surpass in management, second you have to weave shit up depending on your talents not just spam what is glowing, third pet is another huge micro management leaving the pet on the boss to pile up wounds while you dps adds far away or moving him to adds that are more important to kill or aoe shit down, 4rth you have to manage your runes and wounds for soul reaper, RP for DA, i can keep going if you want...
    Last edited by Kendros; 2017-01-27 at 03:37 AM.

  18. #18
    let's be honest, the unholy skill cap is 50% rng.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lapianan View Post
    let's be honest, the unholy skill cap is 50% rng.
    true large part of UH how well you do is rng even more if you use cast

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    U get sleepy from having something to do each global cooldown (atleast with enough haste and 4-set) and have to do a new decision each GCD? U are strange mate.
    Sure the base rotation is idioticly easy. But the difference between a good FDK and a bad one with the same gear would go from say 400k dps to up to 600k dps
    A spec where skill is deciding up to 50% of the damage is just proof of that its not a braindead spec.

    If u think landing in the 20-procentile in the logs is "ok" for you then sure. This is a really braindead spec for you
    Come on man... 50% difference in DPS ? You're biased. Don't be surprised if we're "spitting" eachother.

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