Arms Legion Discussion

[Bevo]

Soo, you have the ring, the gloves, and you're going to lecture people complaining about the RNG of the spec? You can't just invalidate criticisms of yourself by trotting out "incoming hate is expected", sorry.

The fact that even you "still have some pretty shit parses" with the best of the best should tell you everything you need to know. But unequip those legendaries and raid for a few weeks, then come back.

I was not trying to invalidate criticism of my play. I was without gloves or ring for progression on I believe 5/10 bosses pre-Nighthold so I spent time in the full RNG zone just like most people. I am not denying they made a significant difference in performance. As of 7.1.5 with 1 PS relic they are essentially rage neutral being that you only gain 1 rage on a mortal strike. This still makes a difference which I am not denying either.

My point which you glossed over was that RNG, while still factor in maximizing damage, is not the main issue with most peoples performance. They make mistakes and instead of seeing how they can correct them they blame the spec.

Having those two legendaries does not automatically mean you will be parsing 99th percentile every fight. You still have to play well. You can find plenty of solid parses on warcraft logs with only one or neither of those legendaries. Also to be clear once I get either the trinket or legs I will be swapping out the gloves for them.

[By the sword]

I was not trying to invalidate criticism of my play. I was without gloves or ring for progression on I believe 5/10 bosses pre-Nighthold so I spent time in the full RNG zone just like most people. I am not denying they made a significant difference in performance. As of 7.1.5 with 1 PS relic they are essentially rage neutral being that you only gain 1 rage on a mortal strike. This still makes a difference which I am not denying either.

My point which you glossed over was that RNG, while still factor in maximizing damage, is not the main issue with most peoples performance. They make mistakes and instead of seeing how they can correct them they blame the spec.

Having those two legendaries does not automatically mean you will be parsing 99th percentile every fight. You still have to play well. You can find plenty of solid parses on warcraft logs with only one or neither of those legendaries. Also to be clear once I get either the trinket or legs I will be swapping out the gloves for them.

Mate the fact that you have to play well to achieve the kill or the ranking doesnt really mean that a spec like Arms for example is ok! You can still play well and get fucked by the rng while other classes are far more forgivable on that matter. Do not overcomplicate things. It is really easy to understand that Arms lets you prove your skills IF you have the rng or the legendaries. If you are not lucky then you cannot put your skills and your good play into action. Ive seen myself piss on fury warriors on ST fights because i used my procs fine but Ive also seen myself getting pissed from Furies because I had less than average procs. Thats it!

[Tatsujin]

Mate the fact that you have to play well to achieve the kill or the ranking doesnt really mean that a spec like Arms for example is ok! You can still play well and get fucked by the rng while other classes are far more forgivable on that matter. Do not overcomplicate things. It is really easy to understand that Arms lets you prove your skills IF you have the rng or the legendaries. If you are not lucky then you cannot put your skills and your good play into action. Ive seen myself piss on fury warriors on ST fights because i used my procs fine but Ive also seen myself getting pissed from Furies because I had less than average procs. Thats it!

^ This. Besides praying for normal or good RNG, you cannot screw your rotation up because it will rip your DPS apart. Overlapping Shattered Defenses is a good example.

[ReD-EyeD]

Yeah it seems they forgot about that! :P I really believe they said it just to say it and of course they didnt mean a single word. It would be nice though if they do it somehow next patch. But also very questionanble if they will because they cannot be trusted or you cannot really rely upon them.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if FR is only used by like 30% of players and most people not caring about dps at all.

[Bevo]

Mate the fact that you have to play well to achieve the kill or the ranking doesnt really mean that a spec like Arms for example is ok! You can still play well and get fucked by the rng while other classes are far more forgivable on that matter. Do not overcomplicate things. It is really easy to understand that Arms lets you prove your skills IF you have the rng or the legendaries. If you are not lucky then you cannot put your skills and your good play into action. Ive seen myself piss on fury warriors on ST fights because i used my procs fine but Ive also seen myself getting pissed from Furies because I had less than average procs. Thats it!

Yes I understand this. I completely agree the spec has flaws and less rng would be great. I never said the spec was without flaws. My original reason for posting was to call BS on they guy who claimed he had more than a 50% difference in damage from kill to kill simply because of rng.

I expected the responses that have been posted on this because any time someone comments that they had both gloves and ring multiple people make some comment similar to "You have the 2 bis legendaries your view is irrelevant" went it's not. That is not what you did it's just norm here.

[ofunearth]

Yes I understand this. I completely agree the spec has flaws and less rng would be great. I never said the spec was without flaws. My original reason for posting was to call BS on they guy who claimed he had more than a 50% difference in damage from kill to kill simply because of rng.

I expected the responses that have been posted on this because any time someone comments that they had both gloves and ring multiple people make some comment similar to "You have the 2 bis legendaries your view is irrelevant" went it's not. That is not what you did it's just norm here.

I agree that while a 50% swing in dps is possible, it would be a highly rare event and one that require phenomenally good luck followed by the most dismal luck ever. For me, 15-20% swings are common, but I have the ring to smooth out variations in Tac resets. Swings get much higher in M+, but more and more I just play fury in them anyway. Point being, arms is indeed broken IMO - just not as broken as most people say. They should have simply nerfed master's effect, instead of FR and Tac resets back in early Legion, and there would have been far less outcry. Also, they need to extend the range of SS.

[By the sword]

I agree that while a 50% swing in dps is possible, it would be a highly rare event and one that require phenomenally good luck followed by the most dismal luck ever. For me, 15-20% swings are common, but I have the ring to smooth out variations in Tac resets. Swings get much higher in M+, but more and more I just play fury in them anyway. Point being, arms is indeed broken IMO - just not as broken as most people say. They should have simply nerfed master's effect, instead of FR and Tac resets back in early Legion, and there would have been far less outcry. Also, they need to extend the range of SS.

What you suggest is a simple patch up to a big wound! The spec needs proper treatment! Rework mechanics. Tactician is a crappy passive. The patient warrior that has the right time on his advantage to strike dosnt need haste or haste breakpoints. We need to be slow as fuck and swing that huge weapon tearing apart some buildings. That said, the mechanics should involve in them Mastery obviously and ofc Criticals strike chance. Tactician could be a lot better if it procs on crits so the break point transfers to crit (this is a double win simply because you get resets and also you get more rage). Also overpower doesnt really seem like an overpower right? More like the ''wet noodle'' :P. Its should be something more than that useless thing that procs randomly (more rng :P ). Of course also some talents must have been into the spec already like dauntless, avatar and of course In for the kill. In for the kill also could have been a nice weapon trait with 3 ranks. 10 on 1st rank and increases accordingly when you put AP into it There are so many ways to fix something without breaking it but Blizzard simply havent made it to this point after 25485 years :P.

[Sorshen]

We need to pressure them in PTR forums until they respond. Crap like RNG sustain and +% Bladestorm damage just can't fly at this point. We need to at least get 7.1.5 'merge' that they conveniently forgot about.

[Deleted]

FR is one of the things that is killing the spec.
For a second filler it's actually used way too much. Mainly due to the reason it's off the gcd.
Secondly it's pretty open to mistakes (as mentioned in earlier posts). But even when done well.
It works quite demoralizing when you pull off a perfect Carpal Tunnel Guitar Hero while the random DK, Ret or Demonhunter manages to outdps you with half the keys per minute.
FR would have been better if it replaced slam and did direct damage alongside buffing Mortal Strike. (Tuned accordingly in damage and rage cost.)

Or the big mistake is Deadly Calm. Which kind of enables you to spam all the buttons. And ties this whole cookie cutter spec together. (Also the reason Hamstring got put on the GCD.)
It's fun and games to have everything for free. But it also kind of defeats the purpose of having fillers and rage management when you can spam whatever you want half of the time. (Yes if you get lucky you spam FR for quite a while even after DC ended.)

Last is Tactician. The proc chance isn't the problem. But the problem is that the spec relies so much on it's uptime. People would see the rng less of a problem if it wasn't a night and day difference.

[By the sword]

FR is one of the things that is killing the spec.
For a second filler it's actually used way too much. Mainly due to the reason it's off the gcd.
Secondly it's pretty open to mistakes (as mentioned in earlier posts). But even when done well.
It works quite demoralizing when you pull off a perfect Carpal Tunnel Guitar Hero while the random DK, Ret or Demonhunter manages to outdps you with half the keys per minute.
FR would have been better if it replaced slam and did direct damage alongside buffing Mortal Strike. (Tuned accordingly in damage and rage cost.)

Or the big mistake is Deadly Calm. Which kind of enables you to spam all the buttons. And ties this whole cookie cutter spec together. (Also the reason Hamstring got put on the GCD.)
It's fun and games to have everything for free. But it also kind of defeats the purpose of having fillers and rage management when you can spam whatever you want half of the time. (Yes if you get lucky you spam FR for quite a while even after DC ended.)

Last is Tactician. The proc chance isn't the problem. But the problem is that the spec relies so much on it's uptime. People would see the rng less of a problem if it wasn't a night and day difference.

The RNG is a huge problem and you said the reason! Because you need uptime on CS what re applies CS? Rng does it! So yeah rng is a problem. I like CS but not they way it is. I liked arms warrior mechanics more in cata and MoP tbh. Anyway whatever we say here thing is that they dont seem they want to change anything or listen to feedback from the point they dont even answer on the forums.

[Nightstalker]

One possible solution for the CS problem: using slam buffs tactician by x amount until you get a proc. When you don't get procs you are most likely spamming slam as soon as 3 FR stacks are up and it wouldn't feel that strange to stack that buff instead of attacking the target to get procs.

In unrelated news:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...TR-Build-23445

finally some decent selfheal for arms (especially during execute phase)
Arms
Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1) Name changed from "Retaliatory Blows (Rank 1)" to "Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1)". Spending Rage has a 0.50% chance per rage spent to heal you for 10,000 per rage spent.

[cFortyfive]

However, even with my two leg. items 98% of the time when I run out of rage or had a poor attempt it's because I screwed up.

Can't say that's the case for me.
Obviously the 50% are exaggerated but most of the pulls I deal bad dps it's because of no tactician procs during avatar followed by even more of those absolutely ridiculous 20+ second waits of no tactician procs. That of course doesn't mean I don't make mistakes but delaying say a ms by a gcd and pressing fr once too often doesn't even remotely have the same impact. Heck a single sd buffed ms crit during avatar makes up for it or an appendages proc at the right time.
Especially after the nerfs I just had incredibly bad pulls and I don't even remotely think it's to 98% my fault when I am standing there pondering life and watching my skada position drop and drop while waiting the fucking eternity for cs to come off cd.

It's fun and games to have everything for free. But it also kind of defeats the purpose of having fillers and rage management when you can spam whatever you want half of the time. (Yes if you get lucky you spam FR for quite a while even after DC ended.)

Most specs play pretty fluid these days and I don't think that's an issue. Would be quite easy to just make fr less spammy but still fill the role of a rage dump.

[Sorshen]

finally some decent selfheal for arms (especially during execute phase)
Arms
Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1) Name changed from "Retaliatory Blows (Rank 1)" to "Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1)". Spending Rage has a 0.50% chance per rage spent to heal you for 10,000 per rage spent.

That's not decent at all. It's more RNG bullshit. They could've just given some leech.

[By the sword]

One possible solution for the CS problem: using slam buffs tactician by x amount until you get a proc. When you don't get procs you are most likely spamming slam as soon as 3 FR stacks are up and it wouldn't feel that strange to stack that buff instead of attacking the target to get procs.

In unrelated news:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...TR-Build-23445

finally some decent selfheal for arms (especially during execute phase)
Arms
Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1) Name changed from "Retaliatory Blows (Rank 1)" to "Soul of the Slaughter (Rank 1)". Spending Rage has a 0.50% chance per rage spent to heal you for 10,000 per rage spent.

I am sorry. We dont need a heal, we need something else that works . If you want heals that could a decent pvp talent probably but Holinkas in charge for that so RIP

[Tatsujin]

We need to pressure them in PTR forums until they respond. Crap like RNG sustain and +% Bladestorm damage just can't fly at this point. We need to at least get 7.1.5 'merge' that they conveniently forgot about.

Don't even think that's happening. No one from blue is responding to us. Also, I didn't do well in Heroic Gul'dan, considering how awful the freaking RNG is when you're running around so much, charging, leaping ... Hold CS, or pop it? Holding it, lose DPS, pop it, the duration is gone. Haha ...

[DDM]

This thread is somehow funny as hell.
Legion start -> go arms, way more dps, perfect spec, blablabla (it was OP as f**k)

7.1.5, Nighthold -> fury and arms are more or less equal
-> bah, arms is so shit, f**king rng, blablabla

I tryed arms at the start of legion and got bored after half a dungeon. I did 200 WQs with arms as i wanted to unlock the other hidden artifact skins and didn't get the prot or fury one and still don't have.
I was SO happy after i could switch back to fury for WQs after the 200 for the next skin.
Arms legion is an absolut boring spec and retarded to play with the rng. But so many people leveled their arms weapon become of the numbers.
I can understand it in a mythic pro guild like Exorsus, Method, Serenity ... but as a "casual". Play what you like to play ...
NOW a lot of people are regretting it. By the dmg push the gloves and ring gave arms, it was obvious, that those legys will get nerfed (more sooner than later).


Sry to post this, but i was grinning while reading this thread since 7.1.5 and had to post this now.

[cFortyfive]

We dont need a heal

Maybe not a rng heal but I wouldn't mind a decent self heal at all. Arms defensive kit is basically dogshit.

Sry to post this, but i was grinning while reading this thread since 7.1.5 and had to post this now.

Most people simply wanted to deal damage and the nature of quite a couple encounters suited arms but well at least we spotted the retard.

[By the sword]

Don't even think that's happening. No one from blue is responding to us. Also, I didn't do well in Heroic Gul'dan, considering how awful the freaking RNG is when you're running around so much, charging, leaping ... Hold CS, or pop it? Holding it, lose DPS, pop it, the duration is gone. Haha ...

So we are at the point that can say that Shadow of the colossus should either be an artifact trait or a talent or build in the spellbook as baseline . Because it simpy gives you the chance to start ramping up dps when you change between targets.

[Tatsujin]

So we are at the point that can say that Shadow of the colossus should either be an artifact trait or a talent or build in the spellbook as baseline . Because it simpy gives you the chance to start ramping up dps when you change between targets.

Oh I already use it on them.

--

https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs?lang=en

This is their tweeter account. There are few more hours before they go home and the weekend comes. Go there and question them about Arms Warriors - something like why are they ignoring the spec?

Anyways, best of luck to this spec.

[By the sword]

Oh I already use it on them.

--

https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs?lang=en

This is their tweeter account. There are few more hours before they go home and the weekend comes. Go there and question them about Arms Warriors - something like why are they ignoring the spec?

Anyways, best of luck to this spec.

Yeah good luck. We will need it but even luck might lose in front of the ignorance and stuborness these people have . Cheers mate!