BM feedback

[Vormspire]

its about a 5% overall dps boost

[Agallion]

Did you even play BM before 7.0? It was 0% downtime and it was a good spec. And BM does not wait just "a few seconds." There are frequent spikes where you can't hit more than one button for ten seconds at a time (finish off BW with a last KC and little focus, wait for KC to come off cd again, hit it, wait for it to come off cd again around the time DB comes off cd, and finally you get to start hitting some buttons again.).



So instead we should just screw over all the players that enjoyed BM before? On top of all the SV players that got screwed too? BM wasn't a "mountain" to climb before, but it did have actual depth and it was actually fun. They even said it was in a good place. And then they wrecked it. If a spec has to be designated the idiot proof spec, why does it have to be one that was actually well designed? And frankly, the kind of players you're talking about fail at current BM too anyway. So, what, should we just have a spec where no buttons have to be hit at all for the casuals and noobs? Would that make a good game?

Not sure how they are "screwed". I find BM fun now, so that kinda is irrelevant. I dont think its wrecked at all. What makes a good game is personal and extremeley subjective, I dont find your response to be constructive as much as it was extremely defensive.

[Kavorka]

anyone from US has tested new 10% buff to primary pet yet ? I am eagerly interested in numbers.

would also like to know this, and if any of the damage boost is going to Hati like it normally does? I know the hotfix says 'primary pet' but you can only hope :P

[Kayagurcu]

would also like to know this, and if any of the damage boost is going to Hati like it normally does? I know the hotfix says 'primary pet' but you can only hope :P

As far as we know Hati's kill command and beast cleave damage are being calculated regarding of 30% of primary pet. Therefore, except his auto-attacks its KC+BC damage will rise up 10%

[Deleted]

its about a 5% overall dps boost

more like 3%

not much. But better then nothing Need 3 more of those.

- - - Updated - - -

would also like to know this, and if any of the damage boost is going to Hati like it normally does? I know the hotfix says 'primary pet' but you can only hope :P

This is what the next round of buffs is affecting our pet damage.

1) Main pet Kill Command
2) Main pet basic attack
3) Main pet auto-attack
4) Main pet Titan's Thunder dmg output
5) Dire Frenzy dmg output
6) Main pet beast-cleave

Hati KC indirectly i guess

[Firebyrd]

Not sure how they are "screwed". I find BM fun now, so that kinda is irrelevant. I dont think its wrecked at all. What makes a good game is personal and extremeley subjective, I dont find your response to be constructive as much as it was extremely defensive.

They're screwed because Blizz took a good spec and wrecked it. They're screwed because what was fun about the spec (fast paced fully mobile ranged spec) is not only gone from BM, but gone from the game entirely. They took a spec that was a somewhat weird spec but could be counted as ranged and made it into something where more than 75% of the damage comes from melee, with the source of the damage somewhat (Hati) to completely (dire beasts) uncontrollable. They're screwed because we went from having one special pet that mattered (for those that was a thing for) to the one pet that mattered getting lost in a sea of random disposable crap and a pet that we don't choose, doesn't do what we say, and we can't even name.

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone who enjoyed BM before (if that is indeed the case with you) enjoys it now. It's a wreck. Focus is now just energy with a different colored bar but without the depth of a secondary resource like combo points or chi. It's slow. Going back to the 1.5 sec GCD after years on the 1 sec GCD would have felt bad. Going to 1.5 sec GCD with no resources to do anything a significant portion of the time feels like trying to run through molasses with something chasing you.

Literally nothing that was attractive about BM before remains. How can that be considered a good thing? My guild is about to become hunterless because neither of us can stand the shitshow that is hunters now.

And for those still insisting that a cast time is no different than sitting and doing nothing while waiting for passive regen, you are wrong. First off, casting something is doing something. You hit a button to start the cast. You can see the progress. You can see the ability go off at the end. Things like movement have to be planned (can't just turn around with no consequences even if it can be cast on the move). Secondly, the cobra shot cast time was frequently or always (depending on the expansion and stat levels) shorter than our baseline GCD is now. I don't see how that possibly qualifies as being the same as the sitting there doing nothing that is so frequently required now, let alone sitting and waiting for 6+ seconds at a time with no button presses at all.

[Bepples]

They're screwed because what was fun about the spec (fast paced fully mobile ranged spec) is not only gone from BM, but gone from the game entirely.

I feel like most MMO players and developers are just ostracising this concept entirely, which is really distressing considering it is by far my favourite. Not only did we have BM turn into the mess you described (and I must say you PERFECTLY described BM's major issues, including the disaster that is the 1.5 sec GCD), but Survival also went melee and we all saw how that turned out (inc. angry people telling me how it's actually a success because their 4th alt which is probably level 105 is Survival and it was kind of tolerable while levelling).

In Final Fantasy 14 you had the Bard class. In FF14 2.0 it was the fast paced fully mobile ranged spec (if you could call anything with a 2.5 sec GCD "fast paced"). The counterbalance for that was that it was both very complex (much more complex than ANY hunter spec in WoW has ever been: you had something like 5 or 6 cooldowns to manage as well as a number of debuffs, party buffs, etc. ) and it also did less raw damage in general than casters like Black Mages.

But you had external influence pollute that design: mainly caster-oriented players who didn't like that it did less damage than other classes in exchange for mobility. They wanted another generic caster. So Square Enix tried to achieve a middle-ground where in 3.0 there was a caster stance (VERY ironically named "Wanderer's Minuet") which made all your abilities standstill casts, removed your auto-attack, and increased your damage by a large amount. So yeah, a generic caster. The original iteration of this stance was pretty undertuned, so they buffed it by a huge amount and made all the new 3.0 abilities exclusive to this stance, so now it is totally mandatory.

So, congratulations, they now have yet another generic caster. The best part? It still did less damage than Black Mages, only this time it had absolutely no extra appeal in the form of mobility. So yeah, that class is nowhere near as popular now. Why play a complex pseudo-caster with lower damage and no mobility when you can play another class which is at least less complex and does more damage?

There are a lot of parallels there with hunters in 7.0. Marksman went the route of a generic caster, SV went fucking MELEE, and BM is just all over the place. The result? A less popular, more poorly-received class.

Therefore, yes: hunters are truly screwed. If your attention span held up this long, @Agallion, no one wants to hear your fanboy apologia defending a complete mess of a class because you personally enjoy it: it is provably worse at just about every aspect in comparison to what it was before 7.0. There is nothing subjective about a 1.0 sec GCD v.s. a 1.5 sec GCD, or 0% downtime v.s. 40% downtime, or 20% of the hunter class playing Survival v.s. <2%. There are actual real, objective measures of what makes a game good and Legion is scoring poorly at a lot of those. You think wrongly about the hunter class being wrecked and that is NOT a matter of opinion.

[Trend]

You think wrongly about the hunter class being wrecked and that is NOT a matter of opinion.

The sentiment you are expressing is actually an opinion. However forcefully you try to make your case with insults and capitalized words, it will continue to be an opinion. I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other about your points, but you should understand the difference between facts and opinions.

[Firebyrd]

The sentiment you are expressing is actually an opinion. However forcefully you try to make your case with insults and capitalized words, it will continue to be an opinion. I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other about your points, but you should understand the difference between facts and opinions.

And yet the fact remains that survival is virtually abandoned as a spec. It's actually hilarious to hear people exclaim in surprise when they see one, much as they would seeing a rare wild animal. I can also say that I have never seen complaints across the board to how hunters are playing now. This isn't just minor nitpicking. This isn't just complaining about low damage (which six tiers of Aspect of the Hawk buffs like clockwork after patch releases shows has been a common and justified complaint). This is complaining about playstyle. This is longtime hunters abandoning the class. This is posts all over forums of all sorts and social media and the works hating on the class design.

I'd actually be really interested to see what percentage of hunters were hunters before. I have a number of other people in my guild who either swapped from long time mains (several having played theirs for more than a decade) or are in the process of swapping now. Many people are deeply unhappy with their classes. This is not a sign of a well designed game. Now, it's entirely possible I don't remember, but I don't think there was as much bitching and swapping going on when we went to focus. That's pretty telling (and switching our resource wasn't nearly as drastic a change as changing a ranged class to one with only one fully ranged spec).

FpicEail, I'm sad to hear what's happened to bard in FFXIV. That's what I played when I was playing it, so that significantly decreases my chances of going back ever.

[saeKn]

BM is now fine and fun to me. Only problem was very bad dps in first raid MM was only option, this was bad. I have waist and feet legendary. I play BM before 7.0 and now is better with dire beast, we no need boring cast. Dont understand this waiting problem BW came fast less then 1min. We have Bestial Wrath,Aspect of the Wild,A Murder of Crows, Kill Command, Dire Beast, Titan's Thunder for aoe Beast Cleave. Do we use 3 or 5 botton for me it is same. Who hate current BM play MM what is problem?

[Firebyrd]

BM is now fine and fun to me. Only problem was very bad dps in first raid MM was only option, this was bad. I have waist and feet legendary. I play BM before 7.0 and now is better with dire beast, we no need boring cast. Dont understand this waiting problem BW came fast less then 1min. We have Bestial Wrath,Aspect of the Wild,A Murder of Crows, Kill Command, Dire Beast, Titan's Thunder for aoe Beast Cleave. Do we use 3 or 5 botton for me it is same. Who hate current BM play MM what is problem?

You know, we could have twenty abilities and it wouldn't mean much if they all had longish cds or we rarely had the resources to use them. A significant portion of what you list we have have a one minute or longer cd, so listing them off as abilities really doesn't fill a seriously slow and empty rotation. And saying just play MM is seriously...how is that a solution in any way? How does that give an acceptable playstyle at all, let alone one that even vaguely resembles what we had before? As long as it's a choice, I don't begrudge the pet haters having a petless spec, but it isn't a real choice in this case, and I play hunter because I want a pet. Additionally, the current MM playstyle almost manages to make BM's soulless, depthless crap look thoughtful, fun, and well-designed. It is seriously hampered by movement, worse than most casters are, due to the vulnerable mechanic. Someone who loved how BM played prior to 7.0 is not going to somehow be happy by playing MM.

[Kayagurcu]

It's confirmed that they will fix 2 pc set bonus problem regarding of dire frenzy.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2785399?page=3

A big step for ST dps improvement.

[Darth Belichick]

Yeah I just saw that on the front page. About damn time.

[Bepples]

Now, it's entirely possible I don't remember, but I don't think there was as much bitching and swapping going on when we went to focus. That's pretty telling (and switching our resource wasn't nearly as drastic a change as changing a ranged class to one with only one fully ranged spec).

That was because back then Blizzard had the talent and foresight necessary to ensure that the change not only worked but resulted in an end product that was superior to what it started with. The current devs have no such qualities.

[Deleted]

I like BM as it is. I tend to play without killer cobra and use a lot more cobra shots with WotC and AotB. DPS is pretty much the same. I don't see how adding casts would make the spec better or making pointless stuff beign part of it.

MM is the one that is borked, BM is just fine it is. It is not just mindless cooldown smashing like people try to make it to be, it has same timings and rotations like other specs bonus just is that it is mobile.

[ydraw]

There is a very mobile MM spec now too.

[Deleted]

There is a very mobile MM spec now too.

Yeah I know, but I liked the clear rotation as it was before 7.1.5. I've tried lots of rotations suggested, but there's just something that ticks me the wrong way. I am quite happy playing BM too, so prolly even makes the change back to MM harder.

[Khrux]

I've said it elsewhere before, but a single change that would increase my enjoyment in BM would be to make Chimaera baseline. Its another shot to fill in the rotation, it generates focus which we can never have enough of and it makes the actual hunter a little more relevant in an otherwise 85% pet damage based class.

But what about the talent?! Simply replace it with Hydra shot, does the exact same thing as Chimaera, but hits 3 targets for frost/fire/nature and 10 focus per hit. Done

[Deleted]

They're screwed because Blizz took a good spec and wrecked it. They're screwed because what was fun about the spec (fast paced fully mobile ranged spec) is not only gone from BM, but gone from the game entirely. They took a spec that was a somewhat weird spec but could be counted as ranged and made it into something where more than 75% of the damage comes from melee, with the source of the damage somewhat (Hati) to completely (dire beasts) uncontrollable. They're screwed because we went from having one special pet that mattered (for those that was a thing for) to the one pet that mattered getting lost in a sea of random disposable crap and a pet that we don't choose, doesn't do what we say, and we can't even name.

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone who enjoyed BM before (if that is indeed the case with you) enjoys it now. It's a wreck. Focus is now just energy with a different colored bar but without the depth of a secondary resource like combo points or chi. It's slow. Going back to the 1.5 sec GCD after years on the 1 sec GCD would have felt bad. Going to 1.5 sec GCD with no resources to do anything a significant portion of the time feels like trying to run through molasses with something chasing you.

Literally nothing that was attractive about BM before remains. How can that be considered a good thing? My guild is about to become hunterless because neither of us can stand the shitshow that is hunters now.

And for those still insisting that a cast time is no different than sitting and doing nothing while waiting for passive regen, you are wrong. First off, casting something is doing something. You hit a button to start the cast. You can see the progress. You can see the ability go off at the end. Things like movement have to be planned (can't just turn around with no consequences even if it can be cast on the move). Secondly, the cobra shot cast time was frequently or always (depending on the expansion and stat levels) shorter than our baseline GCD is now. I don't see how that possibly qualifies as being the same as the sitting there doing nothing that is so frequently required now, let alone sitting and waiting for 6+ seconds at a time with no button presses at all.

Seems you have a hard time dealing with change. I cant speak for hunters prio 7.0 but i enjoy BM atm alot. Theres some minor issues but im doing great in all content except pvp as BM. I like that i can customize hati to what i want. But dont like being bound to a specific pet for a specific skill - but i guess that was already there anyway.

Also no clue what u mean about a melee spec.


Also they could make the animations a bit cooler. I.e. intimidation could be a knockdown - where pet jumps on enemy and pins them down during the stun. Would be alot more engaging than a anime-ish teeth in air animation. i mean wtf

[Kayagurcu]

Get rid of this "chimera shot baseline" dream boys. It wont ever happen. Instead, they might add a new shot in BM arsenal. Donating chimera from mm to bm was a dead-born project. It doesnt benefit bm mastery, nor pet iteration. They should give us something which smells more pettish.