Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Puffah]

The real question is, are there any good assassination WAs around? I feel like there was a topic for rogue WAs around somewhere. I only have WAs for sub which I obv dont need atm.

EZO
Aneuryzm
I really love the dot trackers on Aneuryzm

[rezilve]

Looking at top Krosus logs...a lot of rogues are using Shoulders. On mythic the few logs that exist show rogues not even using the boots (I assume they have them and are choosing not to use them since they are MA reliced).

I get that its 4:30-5:00 fight on HC, and a 6:00 fight on Mythic - so it seems alike a prime candidate for getting great value out of Vendetta CDR. However, I noticed in my own HC kills that the green fel shit coincided horribly with Vendetta CD.

What's the deal with the shoulders? I have them but only been using them for M+ and WQ, preferring trink/boots or ring/boots for NH (depending on whether there are prio adds every 75 seconds or not). They don't sim well for me on ST, and you aren't going to get 3 vanishes off on mythic Krosus. You might just get 2 off on Heroic Krosus with a slow kill time, but is that 6 seconds of crit (with 2+4p, KB) really pulling more than the bracers or ring?

[Tikishock]

Hello fellow Rogues!

I have a simple question for you all. I have a level 90 Rogue that I leveled up in MoP and then shelved. I'm thinking about leveling him up again just for the fun of it. My main problem is that when I log into the character and I'm overwhelmed by all the buttons and where to place them between non-stealth mode and stealth mode and then eventually just quit and log off.

I'm wondering if it's like that anymore and if anybody has any tips on how to manage two separate bars for a rogue in concerns to key bindings. Thank you all for your time!

[rezilve]

Hello fellow Rogues!

I have a simple question for you all. I have a level 90 Rogue that I leveled up in MoP and then shelved. I'm thinking about leveling him up again just for the fun of it. My main problem is that when I log into the character and I'm overwhelmed by all the buttons and where to place them between non-stealth mode and stealth mode and then eventually just quit and log off.

I'm wondering if it's like that anymore and if anybody has any tips on how to manage two separate bars for a rogue in concerns to key bindings. Thank you all for your time!

Err not really sure how you want to level, but you only need like 10 abilities. Don't worry about binding everything, or even having them on your action bar. For leveling you don't need things like pick pocket/distract etc bound.

Use deadly poison. On the average mob just come out of stealth with a garrote->mutilate->rupture (at any number of combo points), and then mutax2->envenom till the mob is dead. If you have multiple mobs use sap/blind or else rupture both. Use healing ability between mobs. There's not really much more to it than that?

[Elyzibeth]

@rezilve
I currently have bracers/belt/cloak/shoulders. The shoulder/bracer combo sims best for me out of my selection, thus I use it. One thing to note, is that on your opener, you get 6 seconds from pull, a vanish and another 6 seconds (9 seconds on the vanish if your subterfuge spec). That's a ton of crit, and depending how you use your opener and when you pop KB, you can get some pretty absurd numbers from your crit strings. They really are pretty strong over all.

[Deleted]

Soooo... am I the only one who's feeling like this AP nerf has put us back one tier compared to other classes?

[scarfdeath]

Looking at top Krosus logs...a lot of rogues are using Shoulders. On mythic the few logs that exist show rogues not even using the boots (I assume they have them and are choosing not to use them since they are MA reliced).

I get that its 4:30-5:00 fight on HC, and a 6:00 fight on Mythic - so it seems alike a prime candidate for getting great value out of Vendetta CDR. However, I noticed in my own HC kills that the green fel shit coincided horribly with Vendetta CD.

What's the deal with the shoulders? I have them but only been using them for M+ and WQ, preferring trink/boots or ring/boots for NH (depending on whether there are prio adds every 75 seconds or not). They don't sim well for me on ST, and you aren't going to get 3 vanishes off on mythic Krosus. You might just get 2 off on Heroic Krosus with a slow kill time, but is that 6 seconds of crit (with 2+4p, KB) really pulling more than the bracers or ring?

I did 95% with brancer + ring.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[thottstation]

Quick questions for someone new to the spec. I've read the Icy Veins & Stjern guides, but I still have questions.

1. What's the abbreviations? I've only ever known Sub and Com. Subtlety is still Sub, but now it's... Out and Ass? Surely not?

2. I still don't think I "get" Vendetta. I'm used to popping cooldowns, and then using finishers, but Vendetta seems to work the opposite? You make sure Garrote/Rupture/Kingsblade/Trinkets/racials are all used, and once they're active and running, THEN you use Vendetta to make them more powerful? Am I understanding that right?

3. I've been 5-point Eviscerating for a decade, so I think I'm using Envenom wrong. I thought the more combo points Envenom has, the more powerful it is... but is that wrong? I read here and there that you should be ensuring the Surge of Toxins debuff it gives should be kept running as long as possible. Does that mean that I should NOT be building 5 or 6 combo points, but instead use whatever combo points I have (even 1 or two) just to keep the debuff running at all times, just like Rupture & Garrote? That sounds like I would be mostly doing 2 or 3 combo point Envenoms for most of the fight.

[rezilve]

Soooo... am I the only one who's feeling like this AP nerf has put us back one tier compared to other classes?

Probably just you yeah. Rogues are everywhere in the world first race. Guilds using 3 of them on Botanist, 2 on Krosus, 2 on Star Augur. Much better than we've had it in EN and ToV.

[Xanatu]

Probably just you yeah. Rogues are everywhere in the world first race. Guilds using 3 of them on Botanist, 2 on Krosus, 2 on Star Augur. Much better than we've had it in EN and ToV.

What was even the last bad rogue tier? We've had great representation for years.

[skynet1990]

First Tier WoDsucked pretty hard (highmaul)

[Tyrannica]

Soooo... am I the only one who's feeling like this AP nerf has put us back one tier compared to other classes?

Are you doing aoe with AP? Because for its intended use, ST, i do not feel any change.

Unlike my alt the frost dk who can only aoe and sucks at ST, due to buggy BoS. I'd rather have to deal with a small AP nerf, instead on my main rogue.

Ofc, the nerfs become more obvious in pvp than in a raid environment and the pruning of our only aoe finisher "Crimson Tempest" could be more felt in mythic+. Asassin is strong in raids as usual, Brawler Guild should be easy too, i was doing all rank8 bosses including hexos with an assassin rogue last time i entered it in wod.
Maybe i am one of the few rogues that like to do all content there is, but skipping pvp this time isn't the worst idea. Because, all the ability pruning and nerfs to survival really commulates.

[skindown]

Yeah, I know that part, but I've seen some discussion lately about picking up Alacrity for Mythic+ dungeon trash. I was wondering if he had tested the talent since he has cloak+trinket.

http://imgur.com/a/m9v6Q+13 DHT leader linking overall damage on guild chat, that with MP, Vigor, Alacrity & Subterfuge, legendaries being bracer ( which I consider BEST FOR AOE 'cuz your poisons will hit harder on execute phase mobs[you'll be FoKing a lot, the Poison Knives damage from trait also enters on it], that and Poison Bombs ) + Insignia of Ravenholdt

Though I do see the advantage on having the trinket! Have seen some Spellblade Aluriel fights with guys having almost 1/4 of their entire damage being the trinket alone

I'd like to drop it to test out

But I can say for sure, for mythic+, the solution for assassination is Alacrity + MP ( Subterfuge optional but it's recommended to a faster start ) and a smart tank that will do his best to not allow your Alacrity stacks to drop

Previous response of mine on another post, but works to this extent too

[thottstation]

Quick questions for someone new to the spec. I've read the Icy Veins & Stjern guides, but I still have questions.

1. What's the abbreviations? I've only ever known Sub and Com. Subtlety is still Sub, but now it's... Out and Ass? Surely not?

2. I still don't think I "get" Vendetta. I'm used to popping cooldowns, and then using finishers, but Vendetta seems to work the opposite? You make sure Garrote/Rupture/Kingsblade/Trinkets/racials are all used, and once they're active and running, THEN you use Vendetta to make them more powerful? Am I understanding that right?

3. I've been 5-point Eviscerating for a decade, so I think I'm using Envenom wrong. I thought the more combo points Envenom has, the more powerful it is... but is that wrong? I read here and there that you should be ensuring the Surge of Toxins debuff it gives should be kept running as long as possible. Does that mean that I should NOT be building 5 or 6 combo points, but instead use whatever combo points I have (even 1 or two) just to keep the debuff running at all times, just like Rupture & Garrote? That sounds like I would be mostly doing 2 or 3 combo point Envenoms for most of the fight.

Anyone know the answers to these?

[skindown]

Anyone know the answers to these?

1 - Outlaw would be "out" and assassination can be "mut", "assa", "ass", many things

2 - Well, that is a bit true because MOST of our damage is from damage over time abilities ( Garrote, Rupture, Deadly Poison if not using Agonizing, Bag of Tricks, From the Shadows )

The idea behind it is to have everything setup to just Envenom during it ( and probably Kingsbane if it synergyzes cooldowns )

3 - 4+ is the optimal setup, because every CP used on a finisher, the Surge of Toxins buffs your current Agonizing Poison overall bonus damage by a bit, like ~2% more damage per CP used, so it's optimal to keep using high CP abilities ( 4+ ) instead of low or only 5

[omeomorfismo]

for envenom strategies

with vigor


where
x-axis is mutilate crit chance
y-axis the "damage" of envenom for a fixed amount of energy (counting the energy needed for mutilates)
red is envenom at 4+
green 3+
yellow 2+
blu at 5 CP


with deeper stratagem



red 4+
green 5+
black 3+
yellow 6
note that at 36% mut crit chances 4+ become better than 5+

then, counting EP we can easily assume that less cp means more uptime
meanwhile for surge of toxins i only run some sims and found that with MP/DS 5+ is better than 4+ even after 36%. but i dont know how to force stats in simcraft, so i dont know effectively when 4+ return better than 5+

note that simming with all the different strategies the results are (at least for my pg) consistent with my calculations.
then the calculations can be improved counting the mutilates damage, but actually i dont have so much free time, maybe after my finals

[Deleted]

So you guys aren't shocked at all we're doing shit in m+ content compared to other classes?

I reach 600k overall DPS, meanwhile the lesser geared DH has 750k. Single-target wise I'm around 580k ish, I have no bis legendaries whatsoever, but dude, I end up in the shit part of the raid because other classes are simply stronger in every way. So I'm either walking amongst gods, or there is a true balancing issue going on.

So wether I'm doing something wrong (been playing rogue for over 10 years) or people with bad luck on RNG are truly getting shafted.

[RobertoCarlos]

So you guys aren't shocked at all we're doing shit in m+ content compared to other classes?

I reach 600k overall DPS, meanwhile the lesser geared DH has 750k. Single-target wise I'm around 580k ish, I have no bis legendaries whatsoever, but dude, I end up in the shit part of the raid because other classes are simply stronger in every way. So I'm either walking amongst gods, or there is a true balancing issue going on.

So wether I'm doing something wrong (been playing rogue for over 10 years) or people with bad luck on RNG are truly getting shafted.

DH needs a Nerf. Should still be able to rock the ST though. Who cares about aoe padding. All the important damage done is boss damage.

[Deleted]

How many ST target fights in NH again?

[Deleted]

but i dont know how to force stats in simcraft, so i dont know effectively when 4+ return better than 5+

You can force stats by writing gear_x_rating=n in your simming profile where x is the stat such as 'mastery' and n being the desired amount.