Paladins - Slow movement/running

[Deleted]

I wouldn't class 'Derpony' as awful. It's a decent speed increase that allows you to continue attacking (Even with the gcd)

[Morally Grey Storm]

I wouldn't class 'Derpony' as awful. It's a decent speed increase that allows you to continue attacking (Even with the gcd)

Does it matter if you can attack while on Derpony or not?
Why?
Elaborate please.
Do these 1,5 seconds once in 45 seconds matter much? Or at all?

[smokii]

The legendary boots help immensely.....well somewhat immensely.

this. i got the boots as my first legendary and i love them, although i will have to change them out for a dps legendary at some point. crusade + boots = the flash.

getting 2 charges on the summon charger ability (forgot wtf it's called) is super useful too - gives you that bit of better raid mobility.

i also did the research for the mounted combat warhorse in the class hall, super useful whilst doing world quests. a worthy investment imo.

[Deleted]

Does it matter if you can attack while on Derpony or not?
Why?
Elaborate please.
Do these 1,5 seconds once in 45 seconds matter much? Or at all?

Of course it matters being able to attack. You get higher damage uptime, and if you're moving to adds you can use your abilities on the way.

Why do you think it's awful?
Elaborate please

[Morally Grey Storm]

Of course it matters being able to attack. You get higher damage uptime, and if you're moving to adds you can use your abilities on the way.

Why do you think it's awful?
Elaborate please

Because charge- and within a single gcd, you're already ontop of your enemy, doing damage.
Now you could argue that Derpony doubles as a movement tool, usable for retreat or offence...but Heroic Leap does just as that, and is not hindered by CCs slows and such.
Derpony is worse off than Heroic Leap.
And most often won't work without Hand of Freedom, meaning it's impotent as a movement skill on it's own.

[Deleted]

So because it's not as good as charge/heroic leap it's awful? I wouldn't go that far.

And I can't say I've had issues with being snared when using Divine steed in PVE at least.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So because it's not as good as charge/heroic leap it's awful? I wouldn't go that far.

And I can't say I've had issues with being snared when using Divine steed in PVE at least.

No, of course not.
Not because of that.
But because it's worse than literally any other movement tool out there. Heroic leap was just an example. Minding, it's not even warrior's main movement tool, yet is still times better and stronger than derpony.

And of course you can't say you had problems while dragonslaying. But you are free to try and catch up/run away from any other class in pvp without using HoF in conjunction.

[Pickynerd]

No, of course not.
Not because of that.
But because it's worse than literally any other movement tool out there. Heroic leap was just an example. Minding, it's not even warrior's main movement tool, yet is still times better and stronger than derpony.

And of course you can't say you had problems while dragonslaying. But you are free to try and catch up/run away from any other class in pvp without using HoF in conjunction.

I take it you haven't played a shadow priest..?

[Morally Grey Storm]

I take it you haven't played a shadow priest..?

I take it you are not familiar with basic differences between ranged and melee classes?

[Sigxy]

I know some people say that Frost has worse mobility here - I'd say it's pretty equal (Think the other two specs are as bad?). So in PvE they are around the same. In PvP, oh dear word, all the extra slows and gap closers they get and putting paladins to shame...

But yeah, didn't they say they hit some classes a bit too hard with the mobility pruning some time ago? Kinda hoping we'll hear something about it soon. Had to replace my Legendary cloak for the Legendary Trinket because I just can't remove the boots as that speed is just too important >_<

[Deleted]

But because it's worse than literally any other movement tool out there.

No it's not. DK'S wraith walk for example.
You can keep comparing it to Heroic leap but that doesn't make it awful. Would you consider a rogues sprint awful?

Also for PvP, a lot of movement abilities are hindered by snares/cc so I don't see your point? Once again, does this make rogues sprint awful as well?

[Morally Grey Storm]

No it's not. DK'S wraith walk for example.
You can keep comparing it to Heroic leap but that doesn't make it awful. Would you consider a rogues sprint awful?

Also for PvP, a lot of movement abilities are hindered by snares/cc so I don't see your point? Once again, does this make rogues sprint awful as well?

Yes, it is. Wraith walk does not require you to use anything else for it to fulfill it's purpose, unlike some certain derpony. Appealing to WW being a little slower or denying autiattacking for its duration is not enough of an argument.

Rogue's sprint is a good point actually. Or would rather be, if it was their sole movement skill like derpony is for us. Therefore, no. It's not even rogue's main means to close gaps. It's a support skill for them. Much like charge-leap duo for warriors. As a support skill it's totally ok.

Then pvp some, for feth' sake.
I can't argue with someone who literally has no clue.

[Deleted]

You don't seem to be making much sense now. Are you saying Divine steed is only bad in PVP then? You surely can't mean PVE if you're saying it's worse than Wraith Walk.

Please explain why I need to PvP more? Do all other classes movement speed increases not get affected by snares/cc?

Also having to sometimes use hand of freedom in PVP makes Divine Steed worse, but Wraith walk being slower and turning off your attacks is 'not enough of an argument'? Now I know you're just playing

[Morally Grey Storm]

You don't seem to try to understand.
As for PvP, name at least one melee class baring paladins who relies solely on a single sprint ability to close gaps in pvp. Go figure.

[Deleted]

You don't seem to try to understand.
As for PvP, name at least one melee class baring paladins who relies solely on a single sprint ability to close gaps in pvp. Go figure.

Im trying to understand why you think it's awful. Now you're saying it's just awful in PVP?

You made the statement that it's worse than literally any other movement tool out there. I've told you that Wraith Walk is slower and turns off your attack. And now you're saying it's just for PvP and going on about gap closers.

Make up your fething mind

[Morally Grey Storm]

Im trying to understand why you think it's awful. Now you're saying it's just awful in PVP?

You made the statement that it's worse than literally any other movement tool out there. I've told you that Wraith Walk is slower and turns off your attack. And now you're saying it's just for PvP and going on about gap closers.

Make up your fething mind

It's awful dragonslaying -wise because it has such a lengthy cooldown, is not instant, our sole tool available, and it's effectiveness is heavily hindered by gcd. But it does its job in this aspect of the game, mostly.

In pvp it's awful beyond recognition and is irredeemably lacking, requiring additional abilities used in conjunction to kinda work, with a high chance of being countered and neutered still.

Do you need anything else to close gap as a warrior beyond pressing Charge? Beyond pressing felcharge as DH? Harpoon as hunter? Charge as a shaman?
No. You just press the button and get exactly what said tool is supposed to do - close the gap.
As a Paladin you must have HoF off-cd to even attempt to use it, and even then, if takes time to close gap, and you are in no way safe from dispel or cc while closing said gap.
And then there's this wonderful nuance that any other melee has additional means to help them with sticking to target, be it an additional charge of charge, or an entirely different ability as backup.
How is this not awful? How is this balanced?

You might retort that different classes are different. But before making classes different, it would be logical to give each class a basic set of reliable tools to execute their purposes. But it's logical, therefore, no.

Take our interrupt for example. We had none till Cataclysm, and even then, it was a talent. Despite our then-undeniably worst mobility. Was there a solid reason for such treatment? Was it balanced? Even now, for some reason, they denied Holy Paladins the luxury if having said interrupt despite pigeonholing them into melee. What gives?
What gives they won't improve this shitstain of a skill? Giving Ret Knight-Templar talent in place of Cavalier would do wonders to QoL of our spec yet in no way would make us op or better off than DK's, because DK's would still have DG and ranged, spammable 70% slow along with an actual movement skill that gets the job done without no additional abilities involved.

[Deleted]

Warriors are more mobile than pala/dk. Dunno what do you get here at.

Most likely referring to the nonexistent passive boosts Warriors have almost always had. Two to-target abilities and one point target (that hopefully works these days) when I played - any better in Legion?

edited for quote

[Deleted]

So in PVE it's not literally the worst movement tool out off all of them as per your previous statement?

[dabanks07]

DK's certainly did get screwed with Wraith Walk and need help more than any other class regarding their mobility but Paladin are a very close 2nd. The part about all this that is frustrating me is people are acting like the ability to attack while using Divine Steed is such a boon. Typically if you are in melee range of your target you aren't using a movement ability. Sure you can talent into Cavalier but unlike similar talents that add a charge to the base movement speed of the spec (Celerity, Double Time) the CD stays the same so the benefits are minimal. Someone had argued that taking the Warlock movement speed buff caused them to miss out on useful defensive CD's, well talenting into the sub-par Cavalier causes Paladin to miss out on Divine Intervention as Ret, our spec version of Cheat Death/Cauterize and Rule of Law as Holy, an extremely vital tool for when I'm not able to stand directly with the group. That is just too much of a price to pay for me.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So in PVE it's not literally the worst movement tool out off all of them as per your previous statement?

So you are reading upside down diagonally what I'm typing?
It's the worst movement skill of all melee classes dragonslaying -wise, because it's the only tool we have, because it's hindered by gcd, because it can be affected by aoe slow/root effects (canaries f e.), because Cavalier is in its own galaxy of shit as far as talents go, and being able to attack while on a horse is in no way a redeeming quality.