Protection legion Discussion

[Ferodin]

Hello friends, as a newcomer to this community i would like to ask about Protection Warrior legendaries. (I know that it is changing with the course of the encounters but generally speaking.)

Is there any BiS sorting you made out ?

First one is Kokushan's Stromscale Gauntlets for sure but, what is the second ?
The Walls Fell or Mannoroth's Bloodletting Manacles ?

(It may seem like a dumb question, sorry for that. )

[Llarold]

Mannoroth's are generally regarded as the second-best Protection Legendary. Past that, it is fairly situational.

Thundergod's Vigor improved greatly with 7.1.5, as did Destiny Driver (although DD is still at the bottom of the pack). The new Tank Trinket is a very solid DPS trinket that also provides an alright defensive cooldown. Aggramar's Stride and Timeless Strategem both provide a lot of mobility, which can be extremely useful or pretty weak. The one positive for Protection Warriors is that most of their Legendaries (particularly the ones with weak effects) are well-itemized.

[Arker42]

Hello friends, as a newcomer to this community i would like to ask about Protection Warrior legendaries. (I know that it is changing with the course of the encounters but generally speaking.)

Is there any BiS sorting you made out ?

First one is Kokushan's Stromscale Gauntlets for sure but, what is the second ?
The Walls Fell or Mannoroth's Bloodletting Manacles ?

(It may seem like a dumb question, sorry for that. )

Kakushan's and the Manacles are generally regarded as the most useful in most situations. Walls Fell is useful if the increased CD rate syncs up with threatening encounter mechanics; however, outside of that, its value is limited.

And don't worry - There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

[Siversmith]

Anyone else have an issue with taking too much damage from Spellblade Aluriel? I have not issues with the first buff and obviously I take more damage after the first buff but once the second stack is applied I start taking crazy damage and that is being the off tank then! When annihilate gets applied to my tanking partner who is a paladin with slight better gear than me, he take way less damage than me. I am using my main GCD just before the second stack is applied, just barely living and then when it comes to the stack being applied to my tanking partner I die during that phase most of the time unless I use another GCD? We doing this on HC and I have tried using spell block everytime as well to see if it helps. I sadly don't have logs of the fight to be able to try and see where I can improve on it but I have linked my character in the mean time. How is everyone else handling her?

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Beirut/simple

[Toybox]

Anyone else have an issue with taking too much damage from Spellblade Aluriel? I have not issues with the first buff and obviously I take more damage after the first buff but once the second stack is applied I start taking crazy damage and that is being the off tank then! When annihilate gets applied to my tanking partner who is a paladin with slight better gear than me, he take way less damage than me. I am using my main GCD just before the second stack is applied, just barely living and then when it comes to the stack being applied to my tanking partner I die during that phase most of the time unless I use another GCD? We doing this on HC and I have tried using spell block everytime as well to see if it helps. I sadly don't have logs of the fight to be able to try and see where I can improve on it but I have linked my character in the mean time. How is everyone else handling her?

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Beirut/simple

You shouldn't really be having any issues with your gear, although that cake trinket... I'd suggest a Darkmoon Card: Immortality.

When you say Spell Block, do you mean Shield Block or Spell Reflect? Annihilate is physical damage, so make sure you have Shield Block up for it every time. The artifact ability is your friend on this fight, so make the most of it. Rotate your defensive CDs well if you're really struggling, and you should be fine.

[Valech]

Cant argue with that no, but tanking also has to do with the "feeling" of the class off how sturdy it is and how it deals with dmg intake, and i believe we got the short end of the stick this patch.

I have trouble with this notion. No matter how you feel about a class, in the end it comes down to how it actually performs, given that you perform at your best. You could argue, that some classes are harder to excell at then others, but that says more about the player then the class. Especially sturdiness and dealing with damage intake, both mentioned by you, are two hard numbers, that are not altered by how you feel. You cannot deduce, that we are at the shor end of the stick performancewise by regarding your feelings or believes. You can critisize the gameplay, the concept, the "class fantasy" (whatever that may mean) and other stuff. That´s totally fine, everyone is entitled to his opinion. But that may make the class less viable for you, not in general.

Dont get me wrong though im not saying we are useless but alot of the fights in nighthold doesnt favour warriors because of all the magic dmg, yes we got spell reflection but alot of that damage isnt a single burst its most of the times a massive dot and ignore pain just doesnt hold up to it compared to what a guardian druid can pump out.

I understood, that you didn´t draw a pitchblack picture of our situation and I share your opinion, that we are not in such an overpowered state like in the beginning of the addon. But it feels like you are giving spellreflect and ignore pain a little too little credit. Spellreflect means, that we take 30% less damage for roughly a fifth of the whole fight. Ignore pain is a flat absorb of all sources sans falldamage. Our cooldowns are flat % reduces and proactive. And with critical shieldslam not affecting out survivability anymore (since there is no ultimatum anymore), we can forgo shieldblock on a boss like etreus enitrely (unless you tank the add in p3). It decreases our damage but we can pump a lot more rage into Ignore pain.

We really need a list of blockable and magical abilities here. If I find time, Imma make a thread about that.

[kronborq]

Switch Heavy repercussions to anger management, (optional) and vengeance to booming voice on alluriel.
This will help you a ton, since anger management will, if you have around 30~% haste, make you have demoralizing shout ready for every annihilate.
I tank with a guardian druid, and he soaks annihilate alot better than me. But using booming voice and anger management, means that you get 30% damage reduction for the entire annihilate, + you get 60 rage for a full ignore pain every time it's cast. It helped me survive, and thus helped my guild clear alluriel HC 2 days ago.

Completely new to mmo-champion, this was meant as a reply to Siversmith

[Pippo89]

Switch Heavy repercussions to anger management, (optional) and vengeance to booming voice on alluriel.
This will help you a ton, since anger management will, if you have around 30~% haste, make you have demoralizing shout ready for every annihilate.
I tank with a guardian druid, and he soaks annihilate alot better than me. But using booming voice and anger management, means that you get 30% damage reduction for the entire annihilate, + you get 60 rage for a full ignore pain every time it's cast. It helped me survive, and thus helped my guild clear alluriel HC 2 days ago.

Completely new to mmo-champion, this was meant as a reply to Siversmith

Yeah I'm using Booming Voice and Anger Management for this week and it's feeling good. Played with Vengeance/Repercussions for the first week, but I enjoy the interaction between BV and AM more. It was also good for Krosus.

[Lysozyme]

Booming Voice is a terrible choice if you are struggling with survivability. If you are using devastator, it means that every time you revenge for rage, you are wasting an enormous amount of rage; and even if you aren't, it means that free revenges from parrying are wasted for survivability.

I would not use Anger Management on Aluriel. Heavy Repercussions allows you to have higher shield block uptime, and you need shield block up for the annihilates that you can't cover with Neltharion's Fury; and you want it for as many of her melee hits as you can too.

[deadmanfred]

Booming Voice is a terrible choice if you are struggling with survivability. If you are using devastator, it means that every time you revenge for rage, you are wasting an enormous amount of rage; and even if you aren't, it means that free revenges from parrying are wasted for survivability.

I would not use Anger Management on Aluriel. Heavy Repercussions allows you to have higher shield block uptime, and you need shield block up for the annihilates that you can't cover with Neltharion's Fury; and you want it for as many of her melee hits as you can too.

Totally disagree.

1st off free Revenge procs still have a chance to reset Shield slam, your wasting nothing.

You can have Demo shout up for literally every single annihilate and you don't even need 20% haste to do it. Sure you might block more total damage over the whole fight but it's the annihilate damage that's actaully relevant. You can even go back and forth between Nelfs fury and Last stand completely trivializing the mechanic. Thus is also 1 of those fights where your only actively tanking for "half the time" so a high uptime with HR is only great for dps.

[Lysozyme]

1) You don't 'waste nothing'. Yes you still get the SS reset chance, but you lose the massive rage saving towards ignore pain it otherwise would have been. Opportunity cost.

2) When you don't have neltharion's fury up, shield block is better than demo shout at mitigating annihilate if you didn't block (and your chance to block w/o SB up is not reliable enough). I don't think neltharion's fury always fully covers an annihilate either, though I'm not entirely sure about that.

It's totally unnecessary to use AM for extra demo shouts, it's less helpful than using HR, and using BV is a survivability loss (though if you don't need the survivability, more dps is always a good thing, of course).

[kaganpwnz]

you can let your shield block charges reset while off tanking, AM isnt just demo shout btw... it makes last stand a 1:20 cd and shield wall a 1:40 cd, if you have the walls fell ring and using AM you can get shield wall down to 50 second CD...

[Sal the Shieldhog]

NF is a 3 second channel, Annihilate is a 4 second one, so no, it doesn't cover the entire thing.

you can let your shield block charges reset while off tanking, AM isnt just demo shout btw...

You could, sure, but why would you when HR is more SB uptime and more DPS than AM is. Adding to that, defensively, for a fight like Aluriel, HR is better overall anyways.

There's really no need to take AM for the fight. You're hurting yourselves more than you think you are.

[Deleted]

I just encountered a Prot Warrior dealing 600k DPS on 3 - 5 Mobs by spamming Revenge on M+10. Is that normal? Isn't he risking his life by using up all rage on damage instead on Ignore Pain?

[kaganpwnz]

I just encountered a Prot Warrior dealing 600k DPS on 3 - 5 Mobs by spamming Revenge on M+10. Is that normal? Isn't he risking his live by using up all rage on damage instead on Ignore Pain?

He should be getting revenge procs when tanking packs. 600k is low when tanking 5 mobs tbh. you should probably focus on what you are doing instead of what he is doing.

[Deleted]

You should probably focus on what you are doing instead of what he is doing.

How quick are you to judge ...
Looking at a Recount-Sheet inbetween pulls is not mitigating my performance ...

[Valech]

I just encountered a Prot Warrior dealing 600k DPS on 3 - 5 Mobs by spamming Revenge on M+10. Is that normal? Isn't he risking his life by using up all rage on damage instead on Ignore Pain?

it´s just a +10. He ain´t risking anything.

[Arbiter]

How quick are you to judge ...
Looking at a Recount-Sheet inbetween pulls is not mitigating my performance ...

Did you actually check to see how much he was casting IP?

Tanking multiple mobs leads to quite a bit of free revenge procs as it is. If he's rolling with Vengeance then it's even more reason to be using Revenges even without procs.

I'm usually pouring in rage while getting tons of procs in dungeons.

[Arker42]

I just encountered a Prot Warrior dealing 600k DPS on 3 - 5 Mobs by spamming Revenge on M+10. Is that normal? Isn't he risking his life by using up all rage on damage instead on Ignore Pain?

This is the general approach taken by good Warriors:

Step 1: Survive. Invest as many resources (Rage, CDs, etc.) as it takes to ensure survival and not a single drop more.
Step 2: Invest all remaining resources into DPS

In cases where Step 2 fulfills the primary objective of Step 1 (Survive), invest all resources into offense and kill those mofos before they kill you.

If you are not in danger of dying, you should be going HAM. Also note that he could have been spec'd into Vengeance which effectively nullifies the Rage cost of Revenge without losing out on a single point of IP when Vengeance weaving is properly executed.

[Lysozyme]

To be clear, 'ensure survival, and not a drop more' - to expand on that - you want to 1) be comfortably sure that you will definitely survive, not just that you will probably will; and 2) that you aren't causing too much stress for healers, or draining too much of their mana.