Devastator or Indomitable in high M+?

[Matthias]

I assumed that Devastator was our overall go to unless we're dealing with burst. However I noticed when tanking a 12 or about there are times when I really wish I just had an extra 1 million HP. A few bosses you might want more health on Tyrannical for bosses but the extra damage you get from Devastator can help with trash.

Fortified it seems like you'd really want Indomitable, since you can get chunked out early since you may not have any rage for Shield Block of Ignore Pain initially.

[FASTFORCE]

For high tyrannical (15+) indomitable can be worth it. In a coordinated group however you can easily rotate cool downs and externals and use devastator as it gives so much dps which really helps for tyrannical. It really depends on the group.

As for fortified I don't think indomitable is that great. You shouldn't have problems with dmg on initial pulls if you use shockwave (or have dps stun). Charge + Shield slam provides a sizeable amount of rage if no stuns are available. And especially this week in NA with skittish devastator and best served cold are just too good to pass up.

[Matthias]

Any other comments?

[kaganpwnz]

no boss / trash hits you hard enough for indom to be worth it, devastator outperforms every talents in that tree by far. pulling 400k dps on single target and 1.2mil+ on aoe packs consistently makes anything that is not devastator absolutely trash, also devastator makes incoming rage gen faster which also makes booming voice incredible as a talent choice. there really is no reason to take indom unless you are getting globaled which you are not.

[Sámsa]

I was not a fan of devastator at first because I like to spam buttons. I can still remember HS of GCD spam

But now, I´m tanking every m+, including +15 and higher with devastator, booming voice and anger management.

After getting acustomed to it, devastator feels so much smoother with all the SS resets. I switched to indom a few times and it felt clumsy.

The extra reduction you get with the lower CD on demo shout etc is awesome. With good procs you can get <1 min demoshouts.

I only might think about going indom if you get globalt by really hardhitters.

Brutal Haymaker on the 3rd boss in BRH can be a problem, or the 20s before you get the buff on the last boss.

Or on really high key, the attack by Cragshaper in NL.

Otherwise indom is not necessary imho.

[Matthias]

I'm confused I thought that if you were using Devastator you pretty much had to use Vengeance. What's all of this talk about Booming Voice? Are you guys just relying on free Revenge Procs thus using the rest of your rage on Ignore Pain?

[Tygerman]

I'm confused I thought that if you were using Devastator you pretty much had to use Vengeance. What's all of this talk about Booming Voice? Are you guys just relying on free Revenge Procs thus using the rest of your rage on Ignore Pain?

Vengeance is still a nice talent to pick up, but it really conflicts with the gameplay of the new Prot in 7.1.5.

Plus, if you have the Prot legendary gloves, having Devestator talented will prove to give seemingly "too much rage" in my opinion, which you can afford to spend on Revenge from time to time.

If you're in a lucky situation (such as myself) where you have both the gloves and the belt, Booming Voice is extremely powerful in M+ and certain raid encounters with adds. Combo that with Anger Management, and you're in for a good time. As someone mentioned in this post earlier, you can get Demo Shout under a 1min CD and have it up for nearly every trash pack, yielding in a lot of dps.

But those are just my thoughts and how I play.

[Matthias]

Vengeance is still a nice talent to pick up, but it really conflicts with the gameplay of the new Prot in 7.1.5.

Plus, if you have the Prot legendary gloves, having Devestator talented will prove to give seemingly "too much rage" in my opinion, which you can afford to spend on Revenge from time to time.

If you're in a lucky situation (such as myself) where you have both the gloves and the belt, Booming Voice is extremely powerful in M+ and certain raid encounters with adds. Combo that with Anger Management, and you're in for a good time. As someone mentioned in this post earlier, you can get Demo Shout under a 1min CD and have it up for nearly every trash pack, yielding in a lot of dps.

But those are just my thoughts and how I play.

So is Vengeance more for Bosses and perhaps Tyrannical? I mean you get more shield with it after all. BTW all of my Legendaries are for DPS...so yea.

Also I thought Heavy Repercussions was also mandatory. And are you guys taking Avatar with Booming Voice or one of the other two?

[Tygerman]

So is Vengeance more for Bosses and perhaps Tyrannical? I mean you get more shield with it after all. BTW all of my Legendaries are for DPS...so yea.

Also I thought Heavy Repercussions was also mandatory. And are you guys taking Avatar with Booming Voice or one of the other two?

You could say that Vengeance is better for bosses, but overall its just a talent you can use to min/max your performance. The issue is that it effectively puts Ignore Pain on a 3sec CD since you have to alternate your uses of Revenge and IP, which doesn't feel great from a gameplay perspective.

Along with HR, its not always mandatory, but most of the time it is. It does depend on the fight, even more so in NH because of all the magic damage.

Avatar is also situational, and depends on the content that you're doing. If you have a burst phase wher an add needs to die for example, then Avatar would be a good choice because you have more control over your damage. Best Served Cold is my go to talent for M+ though just because you're always benefiting from that extra Revenge damage. Renewed Fury is nice to pick up if you don't want to manage another CD, and you don't have any specific burn phases.

Those, again, are just my thoughts. Always open to thoughts from others.

[kaganpwnz]

So is Vengeance more for Bosses and perhaps Tyrannical? I mean you get more shield with it after all. BTW all of my Legendaries are for DPS...so yea.

Also I thought Heavy Repercussions was also mandatory. And are you guys taking Avatar with Booming Voice or one of the other two?

renewed fury is better overall than avatar, and the whole point of booming voice is its synergy with anger management, sorry if that wasnt said before. vengeance is okay if you are not going anger management/booming voice build.

for m+ even when tyrannical the better build is devastator/booming voice/renewed fury/anger management. the only real change for raids "MAY" be heavy repruc for 100% shield block uptime and vengeance

[Matthias]

renewed fury is better overall than avatar, and the whole point of booming voice is its synergy with anger management, sorry if that wasnt said before. vengeance is okay if you are not going anger management/booming voice build.

for m+ even when tyrannical the better build is devastator/booming voice/renewed fury/anger management. the only real change for raids "MAY" be heavy repruc for 100% shield block uptime and vengeance

A bit baffled here, I was under the impression that Heavy Reprucussions was pretty much non negotiable since the beauty of Protection Warriors was our ability to smooth out damage with Shield Block. I mean I even keep it up when dealing with magic damage or not actively tanking for the extra 15% crit.

[orgonutil]

I'm confused I thought that if you were using Devastator you pretty much had to use Vengeance. What's all of this talk about Booming Voice? Are you guys just relying on free Revenge Procs thus using the rest of your rage on Ignore Pain?

booming voice sinergies really well with anger management and it is a huge dps boost on aoe packs, demoshout given 25% + damage is awesome, opening a group with demoshout + ravanger + thunderclap + ravanger is too good to pass (you dont will die even with fortified becouse in charge you will have your shield block + the damage reduction from demoshout, did 3 +15 last week without problems). After this initial burst you are good with skittish and can use your shockwave, Neltharions fury and use IP if you want more mitigation with 75+ rage to mitigate and have rage to next shield block or if you are safe can still spend rage on nonfree Revenges becouse you can use last stand and shield wall more often too. Just remember to spend rage to dont overcap before using demoshout.

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I assumed that Devastator was our overall go to unless we're dealing with burst. However I noticed when tanking a 12 or about there are times when I really wish I just had an extra 1 million HP. A few bosses you might want more health on Tyrannical for bosses but the extra damage you get from Devastator can help with trash.

Fortified it seems like you'd really want Indomitable, since you can get chunked out early since you may not have any rage for Shield Block of Ignore Pain initially.

opening with charge always will give to you the rage to start with shield block, you have shockwave to to build rage witout being hitted or neltharions lair to critical block everything if other things are in CD

[Matthias]

booming voice sinergies really well with anger management and it is a huge dps boost on aoe packs, demoshout given 25% + damage is awesome, opening a group with demoshout + ravanger + thunderclap + ravanger is too good to pass (you dont will die even with fortified becouse in charge you will have your shield block + the damage reduction from demoshout, did 3 +15 last week without problems). After this initial burst you are good with skittish and can use your shockwave, Neltharions fury and use IP if you want more mitigation with 75+ rage to mitigate and have rage to next shield block or if you are safe can still spend rage on nonfree Revenges becouse you can use last stand and shield wall more often too. Just remember to spend rage to dont overcap before using demoshout.

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opening with charge always will give to you the rage to start with shield block, you have shockwave to to build rage witout being hitted or neltharions lair to critical block everything if other things are in CD

Ok now we're talking Ravager? You can't even take Ravager with Anger Management.

[kaganpwnz]

stats, only 26% haste for better SB uptime you ovbiously want more without recpruc.



at the end of my 13 minute fight i had about 60% shield block uptime without repruc.

the zinger ofcourse with anger management and only 60% SB uptime is this 30% uptime on demo shout in a 13 minute fight.



in a mythic + which does not require you to have full SB uptime because you have reset time in between pulls, heavy repruc is just not as juicy as it was. and if for some reason you NEED shield block uptime, nelthing on CD will give you that reset time for your shield block charges as well.

[orgonutil]

Ok now we're talking Ravager? You can't even take Ravager with Anger Management.

lol sry, should be Revenge

[Matthias]

stats, only 26% haste for better SB uptime you ovbiously want more without recpruc.



at the end of my 13 minute fight i had about 60% shield block uptime without repruc.

the zinger ofcourse with anger management and only 60% SB uptime is this 30% uptime on demo shout in a 13 minute fight.



in a mythic + which does not require you to have full SB uptime because you have reset time in between pulls, heavy repruc is just not as juicy as it was. and if for some reason you NEED shield block uptime, nelthing on CD will give you that reset time for your shield block charges as well.

Interesting, is that with or without the Legendary Belt or Gloves? My Legendaries are only for DPS. I care more about min maxing as DPS after all. People will invite me as a tank regardless ;p

[kaganpwnz]

my gear is in the top post, its with bracers/gloves. with belt it would be way better especially for m+
with just some testing Anger management booming voice build with no belt gives you

~40 second demo shout CD
~1:20 last stand CD
~1:40 shield wall CD

effectively cutting your big cooldowns reset time by half. if you have the walls fell ring + anger management you can get your shield wall CD under a minute.

[Matthias]

my gear is in the top post, its with bracers/gloves. with belt it would be way better especially for m+
with just some testing Anger management booming voice build with no belt gives you

~40 second demo shout CD
~1:20 last stand CD
~1:40 shield wall CD

effectively cutting your big cooldowns reset time by half. if you have the walls fell ring + anger management you can get your shield wall CD under a minute.

The gloves do increase rage gain though, there for giving you more Demo Shout uptime. Something I don't have access to.

[kaganpwnz]

The gloves do increase rage gain though, there for giving you more Demo Shout uptime. Something I don't have access to.

glove generated me about 1000 rage over the 13minutes, overall 11k rage was generated.

[Matthias]

stats, only 26% haste for better SB uptime you ovbiously want more without recpruc.

How much more haste w/o Heavy Repruc?

I'm sitting around 29% buffed, I can get more, but a lot of my haste gear is only 865 and I felt it was better to replace it with 880-895 pieces even though it had crit/vers. Way more stam and str.