Ask Mr. Robot Sims Credibility

[jamesbond11]

i like mr robot , its great for simming the dps of your character, current simulation program is buggy as hell.......

[elfporn]

I just checked the warcraftlogs of the highest ranked Outlaw rogues. Every single damn one of them are gemming/enchanting Versatility.

sigh... that's it. I'm done with AMR. This whole damn thing was a mistake. Wasted real money, wasted real time. Done.

That really doesn't mean a whole lot. At all. Likely they just need more versatility, with crit being the best stat, it's also easy to come by with SiW, where vers isn't.

edit: As zooper said, for them, vers may indeed be best, but not for you.

Item Level 890:
crit: 7700
Haste: 1000
Mastery: 5600
Versatility: 7700

That's my stat goals atm (i'm 897 equipped atm though) There were about 6 other baselines for machine learning on the results page.

My outlaw wep is only lv 30 though.

It is consistent with crit>vers>mastery>haste for the stat weights. The weights and machine learning are pretty much the normal accepted stat weights that most people have focused on from the start. All the master>all confusion is from people having very very low mastery. I've got 57% as outlaw, which is a bit too high.

[Hotmail]

@Comforzonet: AMR is very reliable* - The asterisk is because we are still comparing sims to actual logs for the next few weeks. We do this to make sure all data is matching up, trinkets are proccing as expected and rotations are realistic.

Why, thank you Zoopercat.

One more thing - can I take off your sandals?

[Zoopercat]

Lol, it took me a minute to realize you were referring to my picture Sure, try them on too, super comfy, bamboo bottoms.

[elfporn]

i screwed up and ran gear strat in the wrong gear/setup, so here it is with the new update, and proper setup:

Machine learning results:

ilvl 895 stat goal: 8500crit 1000haste 5400mastery 7700vers

Weights are crit: 8.14, vers: 8.05, mastery: 6.62, haste: 5.16

current stats are:

Critical Strike: 30.09% - 7635 (from gear)
Haste: 9.27% - 3477
Mastery: 63.67% - 8376
Versatility: 10.41% - 4946

So it looks like ~33%+ for crit, ~50% mastery, as little haste as possible, and then as much vers as possible are probably pretty good goals to work toward.

TLDR: Outlaw looks like it has "soft-caps" for mastery and crit that make those stats very valuable to a point, then vers becomes the goto stat.

pro tip: On the gear optimizer page, after running the gearing strategy and saving it, make sure you choose that gearing strategy in the dropdown menu under "View/edit strategy" If you don't do this it uses default values instead of the ones created during the gearing strategy.

[Deleted]

I just checked the warcraftlogs of the highest ranked Outlaw rogues. Every single damn one of them are gemming/enchanting Versatility.

sigh... that's it. I'm done with AMR. This whole damn thing was a mistake. Wasted real money, wasted real time. Done.

seems like you have no clue to work with stat weights in practice. quantity > quality or rather stat value > stat weight. If there drops an 925 ring with your 3th and 4th place stat but its still an 10% upgrade, you will use it.

[Misstigris]

i screwed up and ran gear strat in the wrong gear/setup, so here it is with the new update, and proper setup:

Machine learning results:

ilvl 895 stat goal: 8500crit 1000haste 5400mastery 7700vers

Weights are crit: 8.14, vers: 8.05, mastery: 6.62, haste: 5.16

current stats are:

Critical Strike: 30.09% - 7635 (from gear)
Haste: 9.27% - 3477
Mastery: 63.67% - 8376
Versatility: 10.41% - 4946

So it looks like ~33%+ for crit, ~50% mastery, as little haste as possible, and then as much vers as possible are probably pretty good goals to work toward.

TLDR: Outlaw looks like it has "soft-caps" for mastery and crit that make those stats very valuable to a point, then vers becomes the goto stat.

pro tip: On the gear optimizer page, after running the gearing strategy and saving it, make sure you choose that gearing strategy in the dropdown menu under "View/edit strategy" If you don't do this it uses default values instead of the ones created during the gearing strategy.

AMR says to me :

ilvl 889 stat goal: 4400crit / 2400haste / 8300mastery / 6900vers

Weights are : crit: 7.5, vers: 7.49, mastery: 7.57, haste: 5.99

Current stats are:

Critical Strike: 28.87% - 7147
Haste: 9.08% - 3404
Mastery: 56.55% - 7081
Versatility: 11.42% - 5423

So dose it mean that i should go for mastery (7k -> 8.3k) and versa (5.4k -> 6.9k) and lower my haste (3.4k -> 2.4k) and my crit (7.4k -> 4.4k) ? And looking for stuff with vers/mastery ?
It's very different than your stats goal for only 6 ilvl ...

To Zoopercat

I'm very interested, if you have the time, to run a simulation with my caracter (Misstigris - Ner'zhul (EU)) just to check if i'm doing it right or if i'm doing completly wrong.
Everybody say that mastery should be low but AMR tell my to up it. And it's exactly the same with crit, just in the other way.

[elfporn]

AMR says to me :

ilvl 889 stat goal: 4400crit / 2400haste / 8300mastery / 6900vers

Weights are : crit: 7.5, vers: 7.49, mastery: 7.57, haste: 5.99

Current stats are:

Critical Strike: 28.87% - 7147
Haste: 9.08% - 3404
Mastery: 56.55% - 7081
Versatility: 11.42% - 5423

So dose it mean that i should go for mastery (7k -> 8.3k) and versa (5.4k -> 6.9k) and lower my haste (3.4k -> 2.4k) and my crit (7.4k -> 4.4k) ? And looking for stuff with vers/mastery ?
It's very different than your stats goal for only 6 ilvl ...

To Zoopercat

I'm very interested, if you have the time, to run a simulation with my caracter (Misstigris - Ner'zhul (EU)) just to check if i'm doing it right or if i'm doing completly wrong.
Everybody say that mastery should be low but AMR tell my to up it. And it's exactly the same with crit, just in the other way.

I can try running yours tonight, i have a custom fight length setup for 3.5minutes that i like to use for most of my simming atm. That may be the difference.

The biggest takeaway is that all the stats are very valuable except haste, and mastery begins to lose value (as compared to crit/vers) after 50%.

As far as stat goals go, it's better to choose a higher ilvl goal than your current ilvl, i would recommend 900 for the goal, that's about where you should be in heroic NH gear.

[Zoopercat]

@Misstigris - That iLevel stat goal, you're looking at the machine learning chart, is that right?

If so, that shows the BEST stat allocation, however, you might not be able to get that with your current gear. So Mr. Robot will adjust to the next best thing that you CAN reach with your current gear. To rank the gear, machine learning predicts your DPS for each item if you equipped it and that's how it gets ranked.

So that chart you are looking at is only a fraction of the information Mr. Robot uses. We're actually working on a way to give you more of the info, so you can see what he might be doing.

I can also try to run your gearing setup later today when my computer is free, if elfporn doesn't get to it first

[CHONGWHO]

Is there a noobs guide to using AMR? I've just purchased a year sub, and want to work on getting the right stats/gear for my Rogue.

I did the best in bags thing, and it was waaaaay off what Simc told me which stats to go for. After changing to the gear that AMR told me to switch to, I re-simmed and my DPS was lower

Help!

[elfporn]

Is there a noobs guide to using AMR? I've just purchased a year sub, and want to work on getting the right stats/gear for my Rogue.

I did the best in bags thing, and it was waaaaay off what Simc told me which stats to go for. After changing to the gear that AMR told me to switch to, I re-simmed and my DPS was lower

Help!

read the last few pages of this thread, i know i've detailed it a couple times

- - - Updated - - -

i ran misstigris' sims and it's consistent with her results, i'm running another set with all fatebringer relics now to see if that's the difference

edit: i take that back, here are my results for misstigris:

ilvl 889 stat goal: 4800crit, 2900haste, 9400mastery, 4900vers

Here are my personal results (Lanre-Jaedenar):

ilvl 897 stat goal: 8600crit, 1000haste, 5400mastery, 7800vers

Other than general gear, the big difference is that i have 3 fatebringer relics and a lower level outlaw artifact.

That seems like a big discrepancy between us. If it's like you say zooper and it's a representation of possible stats giving best dps with the available gear in bags, then that might be the reason for the difference, and the reason for confusion about machine learning.

Are the projected stats for different ilvl's that are shown on the results page projections of different gear or same gear/gear in bags, just with higher ilvl?

What i would like to see is a set of stats to gear towards, not a set of stats achievable with the gear i have in my bags. It would be more useful than weights for sure.

Can you elaborate zooper?

[Zoopercat]

@CHONGWHO Here is a picture tutorial on setting up custom stat weights: http://i.imgur.com/r2gpuBW.jpg


Elfporn: So the machine learning picks the right setup for your needs - it auto adjusts based on the gear situation you are looking at. For best in bags, it looks at what is achievable with your current gear. For something like BiS it looks at a perfect situation. Machine Learning is designed to predict your DPS, so it can rank gear based on what gives you the most DPS.

If you aren't in our discord yet (the latest chat program craze), jump on in. A lot of ppl there like to discuss our machine learning stuff and answer questions (myself included, though a lot of other people are actual PhD mathematicians and stuff, I'm not). I think we can answer a bunch you might have, probably better than I can here. https://discord.gg/0ogCIsRqIGTdJfHZ

In the meantime, here's a quote from our dev. I will admit that some of these terms go a bit over my head, but for other people, I'm sure you can follow along!

"You can roughly visualize your DPS as a function of your stats describing an N-dimensional surface of unknown complexity. Trying to come up with the formula for this surface a priori is just too hard (which is why we write simulators). Our Machine Learning approach predicts the shape of this surface in a region by sampling data points across that region, then applying computational statistics to that sample to generate a predictive model. We then measure the quality of that model to determine that it can actually predict the DPS value at any point on the surface, and save it for use in the optimizer. The optimizer will then use programming techniques to sift through the sometimes quadrillions of combinations of gear (i.e. "points" on the surface) to find the one that has the highest predicted DPS according to the model."

[Misstigris]

To Zoopercat :
Yes it's the iLevel stat goal given in the gear explorer page. I understant it's the best stat allocation for a given ilvl but i don't get what stat i should looking for.

To elfporn :
Thanks for running a sims with my caracter.
This big discrepancy is the reason I don't know which stats i should looking for. But maybe it's the 2 fatebringer relics that change all the stats ?

But maybe Zoopercat have an explanation ?

[elfporn]

Switching to all fatebringer relics did bring down the recommended mastery value

ilvl 890 stat goal: 6100crit, 3500haste, 8300mastery, 4100vers

Item Level 900: 6300crit, 3600haste, 8400mastery, 4900vers.

Over 10ilvls there crit and vers increase the most for the recommended stats.

My suggestion is to stick over 50% mastery, drop haste when you can, and prioritize crit/vers. Or Mastery(<50%) > vers >= crit >= mastery(>50%) > haste

Most of the stats for outlaw are valuable, haste being the least valuable as compared to the rest.

[CHONGWHO]

I'm pretty confused.

I ran the Gearing Strategy. Ended up with some interesting results.

Current Stats
Crit 30.07%
Mast 30.91%
Haste 12.38%
Vers 12.56%

Proposed ilvl 886 stat goal according to AMR is
1000 crit
10200 haste
1000 mastery
9400 vers

huh?

So i need a heap of haste? I thought 12% was already probably on the high side.

Any help would be much appreciated. I am blackfÿre on Frostmourne.

Thanks

[Misstigris]

I'm pretty confused.

I ran the Gearing Strategy. Ended up with some interesting results.

Current Stats
Crit 30.07%
Mast 30.91%
Haste 12.38%
Vers 12.56%

Proposed ilvl 886 stat goal according to AMR is
1000 crit
10200 haste
1000 mastery
9400 vers

huh?

So i need a heap of haste? I thought 12% was already probably on the high side.

Any help would be much appreciated. I am blackfÿre on Frostmourne.

Thanks

That's wierd ...
I would not follow ARM if i was you.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty confused.

I ran the Gearing Strategy. Ended up with some interesting results.

Current Stats
Crit 30.07%
Mast 30.91%
Haste 12.38%
Vers 12.56%

Proposed ilvl 886 stat goal according to AMR is
1000 crit
10200 haste
1000 mastery
9400 vers

huh?

So i need a heap of haste? I thought 12% was already probably on the high side.

Any help would be much appreciated. I am blackfÿre on Frostmourne.

Thanks

I think because you have neither 2p or 4p, so haste is still valuable. And with the legendary shoulders, crit is obviously less valuable.

[Zoopercat]

@CHONGWHO Like Tiferod said, it's dependent on your gear. The general stat advice you see people throwing around is a good place for casual players to start. And then when you want to min/max you need to simulate your character to get a custom tailored setup. So those differences can be confusing.

As for those stat goals - that is showing you the best setup for you, in a perfect world, if you could get the perfect gear. However, if you aren't able to reach that, Mr. Robot knows and will automatically adjust. Let's say if you can't get to 10,200 haste, maybe the NEXT best thing is to get 8000 mastery and 4000 crit. We'll do that. BUT the confusing thing is that we don't show you all of those options. We have the data and pick the right data, but don't show it to you. We're working on a way to show you more data without being overwhelming.

If you share a link to the custom gearing strat you made, and give me your character name and realm, I can run some tests for you. Just to double check everything and make sure it's working correctly.

[CHONGWHO]

@CHONGWHO Like Tiferod said, it's dependent on your gear. The general stat advice you see people throwing around is a good place for casual players to start. And then when you want to min/max you need to simulate your character to get a custom tailored setup. So those differences can be confusing.

As for those stat goals - that is showing you the best setup for you, in a perfect world, if you could get the perfect gear. However, if you aren't able to reach that, Mr. Robot knows and will automatically adjust. Let's say if you can't get to 10,200 haste, maybe the NEXT best thing is to get 8000 mastery and 4000 crit. We'll do that. BUT the confusing thing is that we don't show you all of those options. We have the data and pick the right data, but don't show it to you. We're working on a way to show you more data without being overwhelming.

If you share a link to the custom gearing strat you made, and give me your character name and realm, I can run some tests for you. Just to double check everything and make sure it's working correctly.

Thanks mate. Really good to see you guys on these forums offering help.

I can't actually post links yet, however I'm guessing you might be able to access my gearing strat on my character and realm? I am blackfÿre on Frostmourne.

Cheers

[Zoopercat]

@CHONGWHO I'm sure our developer could access that, but I don't know how. Can you DM me?

Also for everyone, Swol made another interesting theorycraft post for outlaw, on when mastery is the best stat, and when it isn't. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post44451160