Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Skul]

Big thanks for the constant sims Effin.

[bazzzyl]

Just got ilvl 900 Convergence of Fates but it sims lower than my ilvl 880 Bloodthirsty Instinct. Seems like Bloodthirsty Instinct is still top st/aoe trinket even if its 20 ilvls behind.

[Arrol]

Just got ilvl 900 Convergence of Fates but it sims lower than my ilvl 880 Bloodthirsty Instinct. Seems like Bloodthirsty Instinct is still top st/aoe trinket even if its 20 ilvls behind.

theres no way that should be correct.

[Deleted]

Anyone has a WA for tracking the buff of MKII Gyroscopic Stabilizer ?

[Dracodraco]

Anyone has a WA for tracking the buff of MKII Gyroscopic Stabilizer ?

Just showing the icon when it's up? Not sure what else you want to track.

dOdleaGAbqRxa1UKuzBekZwPBsOIFtLVjPQBdLDQk7fTBI2Vav)Kq8xQQXrvk9zcgkvPYGfinCbDqrfNxs5ysY5Okv TqOYsfawmvXYL40s9uWYGQEUktKQKmvHMSOmDkxKQK6QcuEgH01fzDuLWwfvYMvKTlQ6JcqFLQennbKVRGrsOkxM0O vOXtOQESQ6wIk11iuP7jqCyiVMQummf1SIrcnFvZZIwFG8wchb81HVo81jgbmczeYyKG4lY00PgFE)mHK0kTGGwyKW n6gers4gDd5SdOAhHlu39HWu(QWplQyZ0iG(wNxJLwqqlIJlt5BMa6BTtEms4muXyKqMZxyDd0dbH1n4pvqykbVurE toPc68cVsN6vjiSUbF03ANKWn6gOrJas2yiRDsgjGHAjJecl6Pgb0goI8U0EknAeSsliOfgjGsM7VoPspesN6)hrfb 9OhcffTqOU7dHPeWHkfKGsqIW0Jr(QiKR0k1cYZQ0iCH6UpeMYxf(zrfBMWpDMdZFSZucwJPzesN6NKTrCeKim13fQ fK5kecsqiKKAEvAeqjZriDQ)n6gersCe08Q0iKZ3ANm4bnyhYZQesN6lrykXriDQ)fQ7(qykXrqIWucbSwXDFxy)dE qbd5P3oWiRDsc3OBqejHB0nKZoGQDesN6FH6VN6VFs2g9qykT79rsIJgHrTfgn(QFMW6qzmsiDQVuZRf6HGHwvAms4 APWQ8HVIawATMr(WxrC0Or4c1pJeUwkSkF4jGLwRzKprjoA0i8x0Dms4APWQeeVG9IEDaqJq6u))IUJ4iuCRYibS0A nJ0OrOG(kJeWsR1msJgHW8HgAvPXibS0AnJ0OriRNM6FATAmsalTwZinAeMqFRDsgjGLwRzKgncPt9Vq9tC0im5Kg0 bw5tmcfvODYyTqLq)DscTSn)VdlCvtZ4RIW352m3GK4iutKPPtn(YDv1mbuwwBTtIwFR0ccA5yKgHoJqaRvCeg6mBK V6NjityXsliOLJVkcz9fGj5368kb0U0iGyKqUsRulipRYhErfdFL4sJqE(Qce(kAKa

[cLax0n]

BM full tier: 7.6% dps increase over non-tier
MM full tier: 4.6% dps increase over non-tier
SV full tier: 6.1% dps increase over non-tier

How did you get these percentages?

[Dracodraco]

How did you get these percentages?

Step 1: Sim each spec with 890 items with optimal stats.
Step 2: Sim each spec with 890 tier instead of those items.
Step 3: Compare the difference.

[cLax0n]

Step 1: Sim each spec with 890 items with optimal stats.
Step 2: Sim each spec with 890 tier instead of those items.
Step 3: Compare the difference.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. I took the top amount without tier, and then compared that to the amounts with tier. The increases were larger than what Effinhunter indicated. I want to know if he took the average/median amount of the parses with/without tier and compared that number against each other.

[Effinhunter]

I guess I wasn't clear enough. I took the top amount without tier, and then compared that to the amounts with tier. The increases were larger than what Effinhunter indicated. I want to know if he took the average/median amount of the parses with/without tier and compared that number against each other.

That paragraph was written before the patch even hit, and the percentages have undoubtedly changed since then. I will update asap.


BM Legendaries

BM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries

MM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries

SV Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


- - - Updated - - -

Updated the percentage notes on tier with the following:

BM full tier: 8.1% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 577151/533901=1.081)
MM full tier: 2.3% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 574686/561439=1.023)
SV full tier: 9.1% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 606631/555894=1.091)

[cLax0n]

Hey Effinhunter thanks so much for the quick response.

Updated the percentage notes on tier with the following:

BM full tier: 8.1% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 577151/533901=1.081)
MM full tier: 2.3% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 574686/561439=1.023)
SV full tier: 9.1% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 606631/555894=1.091)

These are almost exactly the numbers I got. I was just confused because it wasn't updated, so I thought maybe because my numbers were so high that you could have gotten the average of each sim category. Anyways, thanks for clarifying.

[Deleted]

MM full tier: 2.3% dps increase over non-tier (calc: 574686/561439=1.023)

With my stuff (~900 ilvl) :

350s fight, full st talent (0202002)
-0p = 687482
-2p = 707164
-4p = 723176

0p to 2p = 2.86% dps increase
2p to 4p = 2.26% dps increase
0p to 4p = 5.19% dps increase


And with the spec you'll play the most in NH (0002022) :

-0p = 655301
-2p = 674827
-4p = 686421

0p to 2p = 2.98% dps increase
2p to 4p = 1.72% dps increase
0p to 4p = 4.75% dps increase



I had still these numbers with 892ilvl

[Effinhunter]

With my stuff (~900 ilvl) :

350s fight, full st talent (0202002)
-0p = 687482
-2p = 707164
-4p = 723176

0p to 2p = 2.86% dps increase
2p to 4p = 2.26% dps increase
0p to 4p = 5.19% dps increase


And with the spec you'll play the most in NH (0002022) :

-0p = 655301
-2p = 674827
-4p = 686421

0p to 2p = 2.98% dps increase
2p to 4p = 1.72% dps increase
0p to 4p = 4.75% dps increase



I had still these numbers with 892ilvl

These numbers will deviate around due to gear. The tier profiles are using chest, which needs to be changed. It's not BiS at all.

[Shuken]

These numbers will deviate around due to gear. The tier profiles are using chest, which needs to be changed. It's not BiS at all.

Effin, why is there not a line for qapla with/without mantle of command ? It feels like the benefit of qapla would be much higher with the legendary shoulders. And vice versa.

[Stupud]

I don't know if its been asked before and I've just missed it, but what global options are you running this under? Is it 25,000 iterations, Patchwerk, 1/3/6 enemies and everything else (skill, lag, etc.) just set at the default?

Thanks

[Effinhunter]

Effin, why is there not a line for qapla with/without mantle of command ? It feels like the benefit of qapla would be much higher with the legendary shoulders. And vice versa.

I had just made some common pairings in the weeks before the patch hit. I need to update the list with more bis, especially for the new mastery > crit focus for MM, eventually anyway. I've just been busy.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know if its been asked before and I've just missed it, but what global options are you running this under? Is it 25,000 iterations, Patchwerk, 1/3/6 enemies and everything else (skill, lag, etc.) just set at the default?

Thanks

Everything is at 10k iterations because of the length of many of the lists (e.g. trinket sims are over 600 profiles)

[Stupud]

Thanks for replying. What about the other variables?
Patchwerk or Hectic Add/Cleave, or something else..?

Thanks

[Effinhunter]

Thanks for replying. What about the other variables?
Patchwerk or Hectic Add/Cleave, or something else..?

Thanks

Patchwerk. AoE sims are a bit problematic regardless. If you are looking at specific gear setups for specific fights (e.g., if you are looking at trinket usages on certain fights where 6+ adds show up at a certain time), you kind of have to run a custom sim, e.g. with a custom APL and add events that mimic the timing of the fight (the APL would want to reflect the events, e.g., saving TS for add phases). This gets really complex, but Simcraft has added a lot of great features for that kind of thing. At this point, you can script your APL almost as well as the add phases of the encounter in your APL conditionals.

AskMrRobot has also been trying to model sims like this since last expansion, I think, with some success.

The source is provided for all of these, so you can run your own sims if you need to. I tend to run them from command line with mostly default sim setups unless adjusting max_time, enemy, etc. In EN and ToV, we had some bizarre normalization times for all the 3 minute CDs, but for the most part, I've tried to just keep everything at the 5m setups that most people seem ok with.

- - - Updated - - -

Going to make some changes to the trinket sim lists now that we know about ilvl caps. All trinkets from raids and mythic dungeons will be in the list up to 925. Some of the crafteds I'm only going up to 885 and 895-900 for some of the world boes/drops. I'll be rerunning these tonight, hopefully.

[Stupud]

Patchwerk. AoE sims are a bit problematic regardless. If you are looking at specific gear setups for specific fights (e.g., if you are looking at trinket usages on certain fights where 6+ adds show up at a certain time), you kind of have to run a custom sim, e.g. with a custom APL and add events that mimic the timing of the fight (the APL would want to reflect the events, e.g., saving TS for add phases). This gets really complex, but Simcraft has added a lot of great features for that kind of thing. At this point, you can script your APL almost as well as the add phases of the encounter in your APL conditionals.

AskMrRobot has also been trying to model sims like this since last expansion, I think, with some success.

The source is provided for all of these, so you can run your own sims if you need to. I tend to run them from command line with mostly default sim setups unless adjusting max_time, enemy, etc. In EN and ToV, we had some bizarre normalization times for all the 3 minute CDs, but for the most part, I've tried to just keep everything at the 5m setups that most people seem ok with.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you Effinhunter. This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
Much appreciated.

[Deleted]

Patchwerk. AoE sims are a bit problematic regardless. If you are looking at specific gear setups for specific fights (e.g., if you are looking at trinket usages on certain fights where 6+ adds show up at a certain time), you kind of have to run a custom sim, e.g. with a custom APL and add events that mimic the timing of the fight (the APL would want to reflect the events, e.g., saving TS for add phases). This gets really complex, but Simcraft has added a lot of great features for that kind of thing. At this point, you can script your APL almost as well as the add phases of the encounter in your APL conditionals.

I want to sim a fight with 3 adds spawning during 10sec every minute but i have no idea how to do so. If you know it, could you explain or link me any guide that can help me?

[Effinhunter]

I want to sim a fight with 3 adds spawning during 10sec every minute but i have no idea how to do so. If you know it, could you explain or link me any guide that can help me?

This is the type of setup I did right before the expansion hit to show how mythic+ pulls differed between specs. You can see the old way I instrumented this here:
http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/mythic_dungeon.bat

What you are looking for is a raid_event in simcraft. Here is a breakdown of how it works.

"raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,duration=30,cooldown=60"

What the above says is that you want a raid event to happen where it spawns a single add (count=1), at first time 0 (0s) that will last for 30s and spawn again every 60s. To customize this to your situation, you would do the following:

"raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=0,duration=10,cooldown=60"

This will spawn 3 adds (count=3), at first time 0 (first=0), lasting for 10s (duration=10), and reappear every 60s after first (cooldown=60). This will have adds spawn at 0s, 60s, 120s, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Single target trinket sims have been updated with dungeon and raid trinkets going up to ilvl 925. BM, MM and SV have all been updated for single target. Three targets are running.