Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part Two

[AetherMcLoud]

The entire premise here is badly flawed. You want to force other people to play in a way they don't enjoy just so you can personally feel like the world SEEMS more populated?

And people say those that want flying are the entitled ones. Yeesh!

LOL. Blizzard has said multiple times this is the main reason we don't get flying from the start.

Take your flaming elswhere, kiddo.

[SirCowdog]

LOL. Blizzard has said multiple times this is the main reason we don't get flying from the start.

Take your flaming elswhere, kiddo.

Which is why I immediately edited it out(you were pretty quick with the response, btw). I realized it was a little too petty. Regardless, it doesn't make me wrong. See the complete version of the post for why.

[mickybrighteyes]

At this point everyone but the most casual player has outgeared the content. Everyone has seen the content, the mechanics etc to the point of one shooting everything. Thanks to world quests there is probably no area you haven't seen dozens of times.

Being against flight at this point is purely out of spite, but you already. Admitted to that anyway.

taking this as a reference to me who has literally only posted only one other post in the thread... one sec, let me go site that source:

overgearing content renders lower end content trivial. news at eleven.

boom .

Now please show me where exactly I admit anything beyond what is news at 11?

[LaserChild9]

I literally need one spell to kill anything that isn't a rare mob.
Where are the mechanics you talk about? How is the content not trivialized?

Yeah coz you are now overgeared, and that's great, but what about the other several million players, can you say the same for all of them? At the end of the day, if you don't like the game without flying, you can cancel your sub until 7.2, nobody is stopping you.

[Karon]

taking this as a reference to me who has literally only posted only one other post in the thread... one sec, let me go site that source:



boom .

Now please show me where exactly I admit anything beyond what is news at 11?

somehow I got you confused with Laserchild9, I'm sorry for that.

Yeah coz you are now overgeared, and that's great, but what about the other several million players, can you say the same for all of them? At the end of the day, if you don't like the game without flying, you can cancel your sub until 7.2, nobody is stopping you.

"Stop criticising or unsub"
GTFO.

Those casuals you worry so much about as well as new players still need to do Pathfinder PART ONE.
If you know what you need to do and how to do it you need a MONTH to do it. Most people will need way longer. Long enough to see everything there is.

[LaserChild9]

"Stop criticising or unsub"
GTFO.

I didn't say that, I just pointed out that you have choices, you are getting flying, it's just not when you want but nobody is forcing you to play a game that you don't like in the meantime.

Those casuals you worry so much about as well as new players still need to do Pathfinder PART ONE.
If you know what you need to do and how to do it you need a MONTH to do it. Most people will need way longer. Long enough to see everything there is.

The fact that you used the word 'casuals' tells me all I need to know about you, especially when we consider that you even acknowledge that most people will need longer than a month. So lets look at this, you are basically saying that most people need way longer than a month and you feel that because you can be done quicker you should not be held up by these 'casuals' in your rewards.

Now lets take a look at the definition of the word 'entitled':

entitled
ɪnˈtʌɪt(ə)ld/
adjective
adjective: entitled
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"kids who feel so entitled and think the world (of warcraft) will revolve around them"

I would say that you fit this description nicely.

[Karon]

I didn't say that, I just pointed out that you have choices, you are getting flying, it's just not when you want but nobody is forcing you to play a game that you don't like in the meantime.



The fact that you used the word 'casuals' tells me all I need to know about you, especially when we consider that you even acknowledge that most people will need longer than a month. So lets look at this, you are basically saying that most people need way longer than a month and you feel that because you can be done quicker you should not be held up by these 'casuals' in your rewards.

Now lets take a look at the definition of the word 'entitled':

entitled
ɪnˈtʌɪt(ə)ld/
adjective
adjective: entitled
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"kids who feel so entitled and think the world (of warcraft) will revolve around them"

I would say that you fit this description nicely.

woah fuck, I'm dizzy from all this spinning o.0

You fear that people won't see the world thanks to flying, but since they have to make the pathfinder for well over a month they will see the world, making your argument void. That has nothing to do with entitlement.

You claim to know all about me you need to know just because I used a word that fits in this case perfectly.
Well, you've shown just how rotten and delusional you are. That's all I need to know.

[LaserChild9]

woah fuck, I'm dizzy from all this spinning o.0

You fear that people won't see the world thanks to flying, but since they have to make the pathfinder for well over a month they will see the world, making your argument void. That has nothing to do with entitlement.

You claim to know all about me you need to know just because I used a word that fits in this case perfectly.
Well, you've shown just how rotten and delusional you are. That's all I need to know.

I don't fear that people wont see the world, not sure where you got that from, as I have said before, I don't particularly care, but I understand why Blizzard want people to wait for flying.
Using the word 'casuals' the way that you did, is mostly used as a derogatory term to describe people that are less effective at the game than you. That tells me that you are the rotten and delusional one.

At the end of the day, flying comes in 7.2, no earlier. You are bitching because you can't comprehend a world in which Blizzard have the right to make their own game the way they want, because you feel you know better and you deserve to fly. #Entitled.

[SirCowdog]

At the end of the day, flying comes in 7.2, no earlier. You are bitching because you can't comprehend a world in which Blizzard have the right to make their own game the way they want, because you feel you know better and you deserve to fly. #Entitled.

The entire point of ALL these flying/no-flying threads is that they're criticism of Blizzard "making the game the way they want". Your posts(like several other people's) seems to imply that simply because Blizzard decides to do something that it's good and right. And that is absolutely not the case.

The only reason we even have flying at all in WoD and Legion is because people spoke up, criticized, and provided feedback telling Blizzard what a horrible plan No-flying was. Stop and consider that carefully for a little while, and you'll see that while Blizzard CAN technically do what they want with the game, it can very easily backfire on them if they try to ignore the players.

[LaserChild9]

The entire point of ALL these flying/no-flying threads is that they're criticism of Blizzard "making the game the way they want". Your posts(like several other people's) seems to imply that simply because Blizzard decides to do something that it's good and right. And that is absolutely not the case.

The only reason we even have flying at all in WoD and Legion is because people spoke up, criticized, and provided feedback telling Blizzard what a horrible plan No-flying was. Stop and consider that carefully for a little while, and you'll see that while Blizzard CAN technically do what they want with the game, it can very easily backfire on them if they try to ignore the players.

And criticism is fine, but the vast majority of the posts are literally just rants. As I have stated (and countless others before me) if you only enjoy the game when you can fly there is nothing stopping you completing the pathfinder stuff and unsubbing until it is activated. Saying that is not a cop out or an insult, its logical, you only go to the cinema when a film you like is showing, you don't go and watch something you don't like and then go online and criticize the film because you didn't like it. There is no logical reason for Blizzard to introduce flying any earlier than they plan to, all the arguments are literally just saying 'I like flying, its fun, the game is horrible because I cant fly'. Flying only speeds up the majority of content and Blizzard have to keep millions of players entertained for about 2 years per expansion, delaying flying is one of the ways they deal with it. Right or wrong, it's their decision/mistake to make and lets be honest, Blizzard are far more likely to notice you cancelling your sub than they are to notice your forum rant which is not even on their official forums.

[SirCowdog]

And criticism is fine, but the vast majority of the posts are literally just rants.

Dismissing a post as a "rant" simply because you disagree with what's being said doesn't do you credit.

As I have stated (and countless others before me) if you only enjoy the game when you can fly there is nothing stopping you completing the pathfinder stuff and unsubbing until it is activated. Saying that is not a cop out or an insult, its logical, you only go to the cinema when a film you like is showing, you don't go and watch something you don't like and then go online and criticize the film because you didn't like it.

Flawed analogy. Pathfinder is like having to watch 10 movies you have no interest in before being allowed to watch the movie you actually want to see. And that is absolutely something that is worth criticizing.

There is no logical reason for Blizzard to introduce flying any earlier than they plan to, all the arguments are literally just saying 'I like flying, its fun, the game is horrible because I cant fly'. Flying only speeds up the majority of content and Blizzard have to keep millions of players entertained for about 2 years per expansion, delaying flying is one of the ways they deal with it. Right or wrong, it's their decision/mistake to make and lets be honest, Blizzard are far more likely to notice you cancelling your sub than they are to notice your forum rant which is not even on their official forums.

Except that we've already shown you guys how little impact flying would actually have on the long-term completion and consumption of content. Game mechanics like daily and weekly lockouts set the pace of consumption far better than a blanket removal of flight. We've even provided examples and compromises on how to implement flight in ways that would not significantly effect the speed of even the short term consumption of content. We've shown time after time how Blizzard gives players plenty of other methods of circumventing and trivializing the content, and how flight is not even the primary method of doing so(that belongs squarely with gear).

And yet people still refuse to acknowledge it. What does that tell you? Replace flying with anything else in the game: PVP, raiding, dungeons, whatever. Then ask yourself if you'd still be perfectly ok with that being locked behind pathfinder. I would REALLY love to see the arguments to defend that.

[Varitok]

I love getting dismounted constantly (they absolutely increased the rate of this happening) and then people tell you to buy a barding. I love having problems introduced just so a solution can be sold! Don't worry, we are just entitled though, because remember, when you can't come up with an argument just scream entitlement.


If Blizzard designed a zone AROUND flying and made mechanics around it, you would absolutely have a zone far better than any in WoW. Storm peaks was a great zone and you had to fly to get to Ulduar, it had a grand scale to it that even High Mountain can't achieve when you're stuck on the ground. I don't care if people complain about how I'm skipping being dismounted for the thirteenth time in one trip because for me, Flying is very important and I explore far more with it than without it.

[Dormie]

I literally need one spell to kill anything that isn't a rare mob.
Where are the mechanics you talk about? How is the content not trivialized?

If it were trivial you wouldn't be attacking it.

[Boogieknight]

yea it really is stupid that you can't get this in only 1 day...
We should be able to clear a raid in an hour, see all the content in 3 hours. They need to come up with a big patch every 2 weeks.

Seriously, stop rushing, you'll burn yourself out. Trust me, i know

I'm not one for immediate flying access, but honestly I think this has gone on long enough without flying. In my opinion Pathfinder part 1 should have been enough to warrant flying. At the longest I'd say adding a Helya kill (LFR or above) to complete it would have been a good time to put flying into the game. By that point you have literally seen at least 99% of the broken isles on one character. I'm fine with the waiting to earn flying on my first character, but any alt I start leveling usually takes a pause as soon as I start swearing at Highmountain or start the "Metal Gear Suramar" marathon of sneaking around that craphole of a city full of truesight mobs.

The entire premise here is badly flawed. You want to force other people to play in a way they don't enjoy just so you can personally feel like the world SEEMS more populated?

There is one thing and one thing only I can see flying completely ruining and trivializing and that's World PVP. If that's the reason people don't want flying then I think it would be better to have the argument against flying on PVP servers and not against it as a whole. As for the "more populated feeling" I could care less who I run into. I may never see them again, and since I play Alliance half the time if the area is populated it's just a sea of gray health bars trying to out-tag the Horde.

[Thimagryn]

If it were trivial you wouldn't be attacking it.

Then if you need to kill 10 mobs for a quest and you use flight to drop down next to each of them, you're not skipping those 10 mobs.

[SirCowdog]

There is one thing and one thing only I can see flying completely ruining and trivializing and that's World PVP. If that's the reason people don't want flying then I think it would be better to have the argument against flying on PVP servers and not against it as a whole. As for the "more populated feeling" I could care less who I run into. I may never see them again, and since I play Alliance half the time if the area is populated it's just a sea of gray health bars trying to out-tag the Horde.

Tol Barad, and Wintergrasp, and Ashran are all examples of Blizzard adding content specifically dedicated to "open world" PVP. And anyone who's played while those areas were current content knows full well they were little more than larger-scale battlegrounds. So much so that Ashran has been converted into one today!

The problem here is that WoW is fundamentally not an open world PVP game. There are PVP servers for those who want to experience that kind of utterly imbalanced combat, but virtually none of the content or progression is actually built to support it. There are no limited resources to fight over. There is no terrain to capture and hold. There is no lasting benefit for the guild or faction who kills the other side. There isn't any incentive at all to attack enemy strongholds.

Even a game like Archage does world PVP better than WoW. And when compared to something like EVE online? WoW doesn't even ping the radar of that game's PVP. And before someone chimes in with the inspired comparison of how Blizzard is not designing the world for flight either: Stop. PVP has never been removed. In fact it's been increasingly supported with more battlegrounds, the addition of Arenas and world zones like the ones mentioned above, and regular tweaking and balancing to keep it interesting and fair. There is no good comparison there.

[Dhrizzle]

Q9

Tol Barad, and Wintergrasp, and Ashran are all examples of Blizzard adding content specifically dedicated to "open world" PVP. And anyone who's played while those areas were current content knows full well they were little more than larger-scale battlegrounds. So much so that Ashran has been converted into one today!

Wintergeasp was turned into a glorified battleground because it's original incarnation as an open-ended PvP zone was so popular it kept crashing servers.

[Perr]

I don't like flying, but the zones in Legion are way more vertical and maze-like than vanilla/BC. I see a treasure on my minimap, but have no idea where it is. There's a ledge way above me, and a cave below me with the entrance who knows where.

[Amerissis]

I don't like flying, but the zones in Legion are way more vertical and maze-like than vanilla/BC. I see a treasure on my minimap, but have no idea where it is. There's a ledge way above me, and a cave below me with the entrance who knows where.

I agree with the maze, but you can tell if it's on the ledge or in the cave by the little arrow next to the dot pointing up or down...

[Elim Garak]

I agree with the maze, but you can tell if it's on the ledge or in the cave by the little arrow next to the dot pointing up or down...

That arrow doesn't show up until you get close - and then the maze begins - find the hidden way up or secluded cave entrance - which if you knew ahead of time if it's a cave or a hill - you would approach differently looking for a way up or a cave entrance from the get go while you still see the whole area on the horizon.