Valeera Sanguinar - Melee Assassin - Warcraft Hero

[RH92]

She has so much utility in her base kit that she didn't need more from her heroics.

She doesn't when you deny her an opener. All her soft and hard CC is tied to stealth and the only other utility she has is Wound Poison and maybe Vulnerability when you use Eviscerate with 3 combo points.

Crippling Poison is just crap talent when it has to compete with Vigor that can increase your damage output and survivability by giving you more energy to dash away.

With the damage Valeera can do, you're likely to be dead before your manage to walk out of it. I mean, assuming you're not doing something dumb like dropping a Smoke bomb on a Johanna or Muradin or something.

If we are talking about 1v1 scenario, then I guess so, but I would say you can still win most 1v1 without it if you execute perfect opener.

The only offensive use it has, but again I would say it is more like a defensive use anyway, is when you are trying to edge out 1v1 so you win by neglecting few AAs that would otherwise kill you.

[Kjalar]

My only problem with her ults right now is that Cloak of Shadows feels useless. Smoke Bomb does the same (=saves Valeera's butt), but better since it's much more versatile. I feel like CoS should have Vanish baked into it or should be castable while CC'd or should grant universal Armor instead of only the Spell one or something like that to become an actual alternative to SB.

[Nerraw]

My only problem with her ults right now is that Cloak of Shadows feels useless. Smoke Bomb does the same (=saves Valeera's butt), but better since it's much more versatile. I feel like CoS should have Vanish baked into it or should be castable while CC'd or should grant universal Armor instead of only the Spell one or something like that to become an actual alternative to SB.

Cloak of Shadows completely denies Chromie her ultimate.

[Kjalar]

Cloak of Shadows completely denies Chromie her ultimate.

And some other nasty stuff as well, I get it. But that's what, like 2% of the threats that are in the game? And then there are other 98% that CoS is ineffective against. I guess, what I'm trying to say is that CoS is WAY too niche pick right now, it needs to bring something more to the table.

[Deleted]

So I've been playing quite a lot of Tassadar lately. He's a fucking beast now.
https://tempostorm.com/heroes-of-the.../tassadar#9KHI This is imo the only good build he has.

Sure his normal basic attack is just for utility now, but psionic storm is more or less your real basic attack. 15 sec Oracle CD is also super good vs all these stealthies nowadays, and his archon mode is insane - especially when you're stimmed.


Basically, he's the Protoss version of Iron Fist monk.

Tassadar has been pretty much perma banned in the HTC and every time it wasn't the team that had it, won 100% of the time lol

[Kjalar]

Rexxar's new Flare is ridiculous vs Valeera. It can't be killed and has huge uptime, that's just bullshit. The only way to work around that is engage with SS, Vanish near the target and reopen immediately, which makes Subtlety and the whole burst build ineffective. Very annoying.

[Deleted]

Enlighten me. What is the Piano Valeera build?

[Kjalar]

Well, it depends on the environment, as always. In a tryhard ranked game where people would pick tons of reveal I'd definitely play a utility Valeera with Mewnfare's build. But in casual QMs that I've been spamming for the last couple of days, Subtlety burst build actually works very well and it's a LOT of fun.

And yes, Cheap Shot is the main opener anyways, since Ambush doesn't hit hard enough to outdo a 1.5 sec on-click stun.

[RH92]

Tassadar has been pretty much perma banned in the HTC and every time it wasn't the team that had it, won 100% of the time lol

Well, Tassadar was played on previous build there.

Next week all the changes will be up and it will be interesting if he drops out of meta as he has been very problematic Hero for some time already.

[Deleted]

I see. Well seems like a ranked build. Since i only play quick match, it's not that interesting to me personally. I do not get however....why piano build? Because it has so many buttons?

[Nikkaszal]

I see. Well seems like a ranked build. Since i only play quick match, it's not that interesting to me personally. I do not get however....why piano build? Because it has so many buttons?

Exactly the reason. Term was coined with "Piano Uther" when his best build involved taking almost every active talent under the sun. Your ability bar looks like a piano.

[Kjalar]

Damn I like Smoke Bomb! Have enemy Valeera and Hammer on your tail, while Butcher is charging at you and Nova is casting her Tripple Tap? No worries, just drop Smoke Bomb and leave the room.

I really need to go to sleep, but this hero is just so much fun, I can't stop playing.

[Ballistic]

god forbid people use the few tools available to counter someone

Yea a level 1 talent that completely put a hero out of the equation.

[De Lupe]

I take Cloak of Shadows against Butcher every time. AMAZING counter to his charge. I have yet to be stunned by a Butcher after level 10.

[NoiseTank13]

Yea a level 1 talent that completely put a hero out of the equation.

You'd have to be pretty fucking terrible to let Scouting Drone completely take you out of the equation.

[Nikkaszal]

You'd have to be pretty fucking terrible to let Scouting Drone completely take you out of the equation.

Mmm not quite... the supp can drop a Drone in the backline at the outset of teamfights and that's pretty much GG for Valeera as she can't stealth flank the squishies and it can be difficult for the other team to get to and pick off

Additionally, in early/mid game the supp can just babysit anyone gankable and keep one charge of the Drone handy as soon as they see the shimmer. Valeera is entirely neutered if popped out of stealth, so all that needs to happen is for her to be revealed and poked once for her to be 100% useless.

[Ballistic]

You'd have to be pretty fucking terrible to let Scouting Drone completely take you out of the equation.

You'd be fucking terrible if you don't know how to place your scouting drones, learn first how to place them or play against half intelligent people who know how to place them.

[NoiseTank13]

You'd be fucking terrible if you don't know how to place your scouting drones, learn first how to place them or play against half intelligent people who know how to place them.

Boy, it's almost like you have a team or something to help get openings even in the presence of Scouting Drone. Do you get this pissy if someone keeps Shrink Raying the Butcher?

[Kjalar]

Guys, let's not take it to the extreme.

Scouting Drone does not shut down Valeera completely. It does however completely shut down her Subtlety gameplay, where she engages from stealth most of the time. And that's the reason why guys like Mewnfare and Insomnia don't play Subtlety burst Valeera in HL. Instead, they play her a little bit more like a bruiser, where she engages out of stealth, uses SS to close the distance, and only vanishes when she's already on the target. This way Reveal can't do shit to stop her from opening successfully.

[Nikkaszal]

Guys, let's not take it to the extreme.

Scouting Drone does not shut down Valeera completely. It does however completely shut down her Subtlety gameplay, where she engages from stealth most of the time. And that's the reason why guys like Mewnfare and Insomnia don't play Subtlety burst Valeera in HL. Instead, they play her a little bit more like a bruiser, where she engages out of stealth, uses SS to close the distance, and only vanishes when she's already on the target. This way Reveal can't do shit to stop her from opening successfully.

Honestly if I was playing HL I wouldn't ever pick Valeera any time except last if they don't have reveal. That kind of gameplay style basically paints a giant KILL ME sticker over Valeera's head because she is so incredibly frail and will get smashed in the face while running at her target in the open. Not only that, the support and tanks will see clear as day who she's gunning for and will be ready to mitigate/heal/peel as soon as she closes in.

I mean... you COULD do this. But if this is the way you're going to play, you might as well pick a bruiser better suited to it like Thrall or Varian, who don't die to soft puffs of wind.