End Boss 7.3

[Redroniksre]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Burning-Legion

In this post there was some nice discussion about this topic, make sure you take a look.

I had stated my thoughts already on this matter, but to make a brief resume: The Legion is way bigger than we thought, and in Argus we will see just that. Even after we defeat the Legion there, it woulnd't be a huge problem for them. They have conquered and destroyed planets for millenia, so they could have other generals like Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden everywhere (even more powerful).

Focusing on the final boss, it's certainly a true enigma. Sargeras is out of the question. We are going to defeat his Avatar in 7.2 so having him again (or his real form or any kind of form/avatar/whatever) in the next tier sounds unlikely for me, and he's planet sized and the most powerful being of the universe so we shouldn't be able to touch him. Same applies to Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde, maybe they make us fight them together in the 7.3 raid but in no way they're going to be the final boss.

I found in this post two nice theories that I would like to comment:

- Many people say that 7.3 patch might not contain the final raid of Legion. I think that it's safe to say that 7.3 will be the final ''big'' patch of Legion, because, where else we could go after Argus? Another planet that we haven't heard about? Who would be the final boss of the Argus raid then? and of the one after that? It could make sense because like that they can built the final boss of Legion a little bit, because allow us to kill Sargeras on 7.3 withouth seen him or interacting with him in any way wouldn't make much sense to me.



I read Illidan's novel, but in this extract that you posted I found something quite interesting that I didn't realise before. It says that ''Illidan Pure Version'' (or whatever way you want to call him) is fighting demons and the void, but highlighting more the Void, making them the main enemy.

This is disturbing, because it seems to me that the demons and the void are fighting together against us. Shouldn't the demons, if commanded by Sargeras, focusing in the biggest threath, in this case, The Void forces?

I thought that after this expansion Illidan would become the ''King'' of a small portion of the Legion armies after defeating them in Argus (he had commanded demons before, and the DH hero has demons at his command). But after reading this extract it seems clear to me that the Void will take control over the demons in one way or another.

So something like this could happen: we go to Argus and defeat the Legion there, but Sargeras manifests himself, and we haven't a chance against him. But a Dark Titan / Void Lord appears from nowhere, Sargeras fights him but eventually he falls, but before that he recognizes our power and sacrifice himself to give us time to get the hell out of Argus, closing the portal after us, and he dies saying something the lines of: ''There is no hope'' or ''now you're the last hope of the universe'', depending on how dramatic you wanted it to be.

The thing is a Void Lord is not as powerful as a Titan. Hence why they attempt to go the corrupt route instead of directly fighting them so in one on one Sargeras would most likely defeat a Void Lord. A Dark Titan however spells the end of the universe with its very birth, so we definitely will not see one of those.

[olddog]

Planet burst is not that difficult. Illidan destroyed planet Nathreza, Nerzhul destroyed planet Draenor.

Y'Shaarj's mountain burst is just a death cry(and this caused the obliteration hundreds of titan forged). It isn't his skill or magic spell. Just writhing in pain.

[Caerule]

People keep pointing to the picture of Sargeras splitting a planet with his blade, but do keep in mind that this blade has been destroyed. This was old lore, sure. But the blade he wields in a picture in Chronicles also shows his corrupt form to wield the broken one, with no more than a fourth left attached to the corrupted handle.

That said, he can totally pummel the crap out of a planet to break it apart, or conjure a felstorm large enough to destroy it. But at least he can't just walk up to it and finish a planet in a single stroke of a blade.


As for the power of an Old God? It depends on how big it is.

We know C'thun's influence has been quite limited beyond his prison. The wall the dragons and druids built a thousand years ago cut off everything from passing. That must have included the Old God's tentacles. Hell, that may even mean all those crystals in Silithus are C'thun's blood, arisen from when said tentacles were severed. It's clear the wall was breached eventually. The Silithid poured out. The Twilight Hammer was attracted. And those organic hives of the Silithid may even have been part of the Old God's flesh. In which case it reached at least up to Un'goro.

Yogg-Saron then. Up to his death, he may have extended his body the furthest. There was a time where Saronite began showing up all over Northrend, and also the north of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. It's why the Great Trees, the spawn of Nordrassil that were connected to Emerald Dream, were planted to counteract this influence and corruption. And it was successful in driving back Yogg-Saron's influence for the most part, except in Northrend where the biggest tree reached Yogg-Saron's prison and fell to corruption. Still, it seems to have kept Yogg-Saron's domain limited to Northrend, up to 2 zones away from his prison.

So how powerful is N'Zoth? Said to have once been the weakest, if the priest dagger is to be believed. As well as the sole survivor, who will get to consume all of Azeroth, again if the priest dagger is to be believed. His great power has been clear since Cataclysm. He was the one to empower Deathwing to near indestructibility. His power surged through the Emerald Dream. We see Old God tendrils in Vashj'ir, which is close to his prison. But we also see them in several places of northern Kalimdor. We see him strongly present in Dragonblight, formerly Yogg-Saron's domain. As well as the Twilight Highlands.

We may soon see a fully uncontained Old God whose body is as big as the world. In the Nighthold, we see such a world-devourer in the background of Star Augur Etraeus' fight. That, is a true Old God reaching full maturity. Until now, we've been facing children trapped in a box. Even the Titans never fought one that big in recorded history. It's clear though that it would still not be a match for a Titan in combat, other than perhaps by driving them mad. Which.. Is kind of what their purpose is. But can a mature N'Zoth stand against Kil'Jaedan or Archimonde as an equal in battle? I'd say so.

But I also say that an Old God on its own isn't an exciting enough enemy. Not after C'thun and Yogg-Saron have been just side-bosses in expansions. Don't get me wrong. He pretty much made Deathwing, so he's got the power to be an end boss. But N'Zoth isn't exciting enough on his own. So, I'm sure ultimately the expansion featuring N'Zoth will be about N'Zoth attempting to bring forth the forces of the Void, and receiving power and minions directly from the Void Lords to make his ultimate victory happen. And they should also give him an Avatar like Sara was for Yogg-Saron. Someone to manipulate us and ultimately ends up having been our enemy using us for their own ends. Gives him a face to manipulate us that we can get to love to hate.

[Filipse]

Meh, my Warlock's staff tore a world asunder and left it little more than a patch of floating islands. The other artifacts are of similar power too. A group of 10-20 will do a fine job of dealing with Sargy.

Original Ner'Zhul, The Elder Shaman whom Gul'Dan was an apprentice of was simply that OP, you as a character arent even close :P

[Darkarath]

The thing is a Void Lord is not as powerful as a Titan. Hence why they attempt to go the corrupt route instead of directly fighting them so in one on one Sargeras would most likely defeat a Void Lord. A Dark Titan however spells the end of the universe with its very birth, so we definitely will not see one of those.

We don't know that. They try to corrupt planets because they can't manifest in our plane, or only for briefly moments. And Sargeras has never fought one that we know of, so we will have to wait and see what Blizzard has in store. Same goes for a Dark Titan; the universe is HUGE, so some Old Gods might had succeded in corrupting a Worl Soul, it's up to Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -

We know C'thun's influence has been quite limited beyond his prison. The wall the dragons and druids built a thousand years ago cut off everything from passing. That must have included the Old God's tentacles. Hell, that may even mean all those crystals in Silithus are C'thun's blood, arisen from when said tentacles were severed. It's clear the wall was breached eventually. The Silithid poured out. The Twilight Hammer was attracted. And those organic hives of the Silithid may even have been part of the Old God's flesh. In which case it reached at least up to Un'goro.

Yogg-Saron then. Up to his death, he may have extended his body the furthest. There was a time where Saronite began showing up all over Northrend, and also the north of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. It's why the Great Trees, the spawn of Nordrassil that were connected to Emerald Dream, were planted to counteract this influence and corruption. And it was successful in driving back Yogg-Saron's influence for the most part, except in Northrend where the biggest tree reached Yogg-Saron's prison and fell to corruption. Still, it seems to have kept Yogg-Saron's domain limited to Northrend, up to 2 zones away from his prison.

So how powerful is N'Zoth? Said to have once been the weakest, if the priest dagger is to be believed. As well as the sole survivor, who will get to consume all of Azeroth, again if the priest dagger is to be believed. His great power has been clear since Cataclysm. He was the one to empower Deathwing to near indestructibility. His power surged through the Emerald Dream. We see Old God tendrils in Vashj'ir, which is close to his prison. But we also see them in several places of northern Kalimdor. We see him strongly present in Dragonblight, formerly Yogg-Saron's domain. As well as the Twilight Highlands.

We may soon see a fully uncontained Old God whose body is as big as the world. In the Nighthold, we see such a world-devourer in the background of Star Augur Etraeus' fight. That, is a true Old God reaching full maturity. Until now, we've been facing children trapped in a box. Even the Titans never fought one that big in recorded history. It's clear though that it would still not be a match for a Titan in combat, other than perhaps by driving them mad. Which.. Is kind of what their purpose is. But can a mature N'Zoth stand against Kil'Jaedan or Archimonde as an equal in battle? I'd say so.

But I also say that an Old God on its own isn't an exciting enough enemy. Not after C'thun and Yogg-Saron have been just side-bosses in expansions. Don't get me wrong. He pretty much made Deathwing, so he's got the power to be an end boss. But N'Zoth isn't exciting enough on his own. So, I'm sure ultimately the expansion featuring N'Zoth will be about N'Zoth attempting to bring forth the forces of the Void, and receiving power and minions directly from the Void Lords to make his ultimate victory happen. And they should also give him an Avatar like Sara was for Yogg-Saron. Someone to manipulate us and ultimately ends up having been our enemy using us for their own ends. Gives him a face to manipulate us that we can get to love to hate.

Agreed in everything, but I think that N'Zoth expansion, while it probably will have Void references, wouldn't feature them as the final boss.

N'Zoth is linked to Azshara, and I'm guessing that they will be the bosses of different tiers, I'm going with Azshara as a final boss rather than N'Zoth. But it depends to Blizzard, they have the capacity of making two expansions of these guys easily:

- Azshara's expansion could raise a continent from the seas, provoke another Cataclysm or focus on the remaining islands that we haven't see (they already said that they were looking into an expansion in which we have our own boat and sail and explore the seas with it).

- N'Zoth's expansion could be focused on the seas too or on the undergrounds of Azeroth, which we know are vast, and they keep teasing us about the enormous darkness that is below us.

[Aeula]

Original Ner'Zhul, The Elder Shaman whom Gul'Dan was an apprentice of was simply that OP, you as a character arent even close :P

It was pretty much completely the staff, Ner'zhul simply directed it chaotically and we've long since surpassed Ner'zhul and the staff's original power by now.

[Crazykeven]

At first I was well on board with Sargeras being defeated in this expansion because the expansion is called Legion after all.

However, the more I think about it, the more hesitant I am with the idea.


We head to Argus to take the battle to them. But what does that mean? It means we are going there with the intent of blowing up Argus. Illidan has destroyed a planet before, he can do it again. I wouldn't be surprised if the final boss of the expansion is some sort of fight that involves blowing up the planet, and with it, the burning Legion.

The Legion control lots of worlds, this is true, however without a command structure, suggesting we defeat all the Lieutenants, those scattered among the stars will no longer be a threat. Thus ending the Burning Legion as we know it. Thus the title "Legion"

But what about Sargeras you might ask. Well, he is just too powerful. It is not our place to kill him. Not now. I believe he has his place in a future expansion about the Void Lords. No Burning Legion, no armies of Demons, if he's in it, he's on his own vs the Void Lords. How we fit into this story, I do not know.

[Redroniksre]

We don't know that. They try to corrupt planets because they can't manifest in our plane, or only for briefly moments. And Sargeras has never fought one that we know of, so we will have to wait and see what Blizzard has in store. Same goes for a Dark Titan; the universe is HUGE, so some Old Gods might had succeded in corrupting a Worl Soul, it's up to Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -



Agreed in everything, but I think that N'Zoth expansion, while it probably will have Void references, wouldn't feature them as the final boss.

N'Zoth is linked to Azshara, and I'm guessing that they will be the bosses of different tiers, I'm going with Azshara as a final boss rather than N'Zoth. But it depends to Blizzard, they have the capacity of making two expansions of these guys easily:

- Azshara's expansion could raise a continent from the seas, provoke another Cataclysm or focus on the remaining islands that we haven't see (they already said that they were looking into an expansion in which we have our own boat and sail and explore the seas with it).

- N'Zoth's expansion could be focused on the seas too or on the undergrounds of Azeroth, which we know are vast, and they keep teasing us about the enormous darkness that is below us.

The power gauge we have is from Chronicles itself. "Envious of their [Titans] power, the void lords sought to corrupt one of the world-shaping titans into an instrument of their will" But they were impervious to corruption in adult stages (So far). And in terms of the Dark Titan, "No power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it. In time, the warped titan would consume all matter and energy in the universe, bringing every mote of existence under the void lords' will."

So there we have it, at least for the Dark Titan, spelled out. Dark Titan is endgame, when it exists, we don't.

[bombayshow]

doubt it Sargeras will get his redemption cause he has the same story than Arthas if he doesn't get it.

Everyone knows that Azeroth will be the last Endgame boss.

[Deleted]

But at the same time Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden together as final boss seems anticlimatic to me.

Actually I think it's alright.

Boring gameplay wise yes, but alright from a story telling perspective.

[Nezia]

My bet: we will not be fighting demons in argus.

I think Argus is being taken over by the void right now, and we are being lead there by agents of the void who want us to stay away from azeroth so that the azeroth forces are split and they can take us from the game.

Who are those agents you ask? Xe'ra, a naaru that conveniently fell down from nowhere in the time we needed the most and that almost tears our head open when talking to us, and the 'army of the light' who we only know from the words of said convenient naaru and some shine guy from the most trustworthy race in wow lore.

And there is also the whispers from I'llgnoth about "at the time of her third death...", that's elisande, at the time of her third death she decides to turn against the legion and help us, which settles the fate of this invasion, without her help gul'dan would have succeeded and the legion would have taken over azeroth, but with her help, the invasion is pretty much fucked and the demons got nowhere to run, cornered between us and the void, guess that destroying all words they go through does not sound like a very smart idea now huh?

[WolfRider]

My bet: we will not be fighting demons in argus.

I think Argus is being taken over by the void right now, and we are being lead there by agents of the void who want us to stay away from azeroth so that the azeroth forces are split and they can take us from the game.

Who are those agents you ask? Xe'ra, a naaru that conveniently fell down from nowhere in the time we needed the most and that almost tears our head open when talking to us, and the 'army of the light' who we only know from the words of said convenient naaru and some shine guy from the most trustworthy race in wow lore.

And there is also the whispers from I'llgnoth about "at the time of her third death...", that's elisande, at the time of her third death she decides to turn against the legion and help us, which settles the fate of this invasion, without her help gul'dan would have succeeded and the legion would have taken over azeroth, but with her help, the invasion is pretty much fucked and the demons got nowhere to run, cornered between us and the void, guess that destroying all words they go through does not sound like a very smart idea now huh?

Il'Gynoth's quote isn't about Elisande.
She doesn't die in Nighthold, she changes phase everytime she hits 10% HP and the third time she surrenders to help us to reach and stop Gul'dan.
And in the fight against the baddy warlock, she's not there.
It's definitely not about Elisande.

[Hablion]

I am Still hoping we fight Chromatus eventually http://wow.gamepedia.com/Chromatus. He was able to match the Fully powered Dragon aspects when he was incompletely awoken and still weakened.

[Darkarath]

The power gauge we have is from Chronicles itself. "Envious of their [Titans] power, the void lords sought to corrupt one of the world-shaping titans into an instrument of their will" But they were impervious to corruption in adult stages (So far). And in terms of the Dark Titan, "No power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it. In time, the warped titan would consume all matter and energy in the universe, bringing every mote of existence under the void lords' will."

So there we have it, at least for the Dark Titan, spelled out. Dark Titan is endgame, when it exists, we don't.

I think that that quote its open to interpretation. Are they envious of they power, or of their hability to walk through the physical universe and do as they please?

There is another quote that could mean that the Pantheon its less powerful than the Void Lords: ''He told Sargeras of Azeroth, a fledging world-soul with more potential than any of the Pantheon had ever seen, a being strong enough to defeat the void lords in due time.''

So as you see, this quote, at least to me, states that not even the Pantheon could defeat the Void Lords.

As I said before, we have very little information about the Void Lords, their power is yet to be seen.

About the Dark Titan, I don't see him as end game for all creation. Before him, Sargeras was end game for all creation too, there is always an antagonist who is supposed to be invincible, but at the end there's always a way to defeat them.

[Nezia]

Il'Gynoth's quote isn't about Elisande.
She doesn't die in Nighthold, she changes phase everytime she hits 10% HP and the third time she surrenders to help us to reach and stop Gul'dan.
And in the fight against the baddy warlock, she's not there.
It's definitely not about Elisande.

She is the one who enpowers us with the eye of aman'thul and leads us to gul'dan. And death can actually mean a lot of things, Jaina died on the inside when theramore was destroyed and when the elfs betrayed her in dalaran, azeroth 'died' when the titans killed y'shaarj and in the cataclysm, the only female we know that literaly died and kept comming back is sylvanas, but she died 3 times already, and I don't think she will play a big part in the upcomming events.

But hey, blizzard is a master of the 'that no longer is canon', so they can easily discount one of her deaths.

[WolfRider]

She is the one who enpowers us with the eye of aman'thul and leads us to gul'dan. And death can actually mean a lot of things, Jaina died on the inside when theramore was destroyed and when the elfs betrayed her in dalaran, azeroth 'died' when the titans killed y'shaarj and in the cataclysm, the only female we know that literaly died and kept comming back is sylvanas, but she died 3 times already, and I don't think she will play a big part in the upcomming events.

But hey, blizzard is a master of the 'that no longer is canon', so they can easily discount one of her deaths.

If you count Jaina's loss, she "died" a lot more times
She lost Arthas, Rhonin, her people in Theramore, her trust in peace between Alliance & Hord...

Azeroth didn't die when Y'shaarj was pulled over, she's been wounded. The Cataclysm? It was caused by her, because we killed C'Thun and Yogg'Saron (and I think it was because Yogg's spirit caused Azeroth to have a huge Nightmare, shaking the planet from its depth).

Sylvanas, physically died three times. But the first time she wasn't sent to the Shadowlands, because her Soul was kept by Arthas/Lich King. She died spiritually 2 times (after ICC and in front of Gilneas).

[Raetary]

She is the one who enpowers us with the eye of aman'thul and leads us to gul'dan.

that's an echo.

she died during the encounter.

[Deleted]

I always thought Sargeras will be the last boss in World of Warcraft.

But, as usual in well written stories, there always is an even bigger villain waiting in the dark.

[Makorus]

Azeroth didn't die when Y'shaarj was pulled over, she's been wounded. The Cataclysm? It was caused by her, because we killed C'Thun and Yogg'Saron (and I think it was because Yogg's spirit caused Azeroth to have a huge Nightmare, shaking the planet from its depth).

What? That's not what happened at all.

The Shattering (aka the Cataclysm) was caused by Deathwing literally ripping through Azeroth.

[Qualia]

What? That's not what happened at all.

The Shattering (aka the Cataclysm) was caused by Deathwing literally ripping through Azeroth.

No, that's what happened. Blizzard said so (twice, even) in Blizzcon Dev Q&A 2010 (or was it 2011?). The Cataclysm happened, partly at very least, because of the two Old Gods' deaths (C'Thun and Yogg to be exact). Remember how the earthquakes and element unrest happened way before Deathwing bursted back to Azeroth (even before the confrontation with Arthas, for that matter)? It's undeniable that Deathwing took part in the Cataclysm, but he isn't the sole cause of it.