The Origins of Totalitarianism, how tyranny begins, sold out on Amazon

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Some of it, yes. But Trump has pitted his supporters against the media and reviled them in a way that no other candidate/president has since Nixon.

Nixon, let that one sink in for a minute.



This is true to a degree, but it is devoid of context. Trump threatened to deport every illegal immigrant, which means going door to door. Obama has deported those who were here illegally and committed a crime, he has never supported mass-deportations like Trump has proposed and supported. He signed the executive order on Dreamers specifically because he didn't want to separate families and deport them wholesale.

This is what is called an "alternative fact". It may not be a baldfaced lie, but it's grossly misrepresenting what you are saying it is.



Trump disagrees with you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...united-states/



Sorry if the truth hurts, bro.

No, your truth doesn't hurt, because the actions of Trump, and your interpretations aren't reality.

Trump banned people from what, seven countries? If he was going to ban "all muslims" why only seven countries?

You have decided that when Trump says "deport every illegal immigrant" it means going door to door. You created that. Also, you don't think deporting three million illegal immigrants isn't "mass-deporation"? If three million isn't "mass deportation", what number does Trump need to hit before it becomes "mass deportation". Now, here is the kicker, during those three million deportations of illegal immigrants, are you saying ICE officials or agents weren't going to the doors of people they suspect of being here illegally?

Barack Obama was also famously pitting his administration against the media as well. Not the mainstream media, but media outlets nonetheless.

So you have Barack Obama pitting his administration against media outlets, you have Obama deporting three million illegal immigrants, and the same plans that Trump is using are the same plans the Obama administration came up with more or less.

But Trump is in the wrong.

lol

[Gurluas]

America won the Cold War, fyi.

It didn't win it. The Soviet Union collapsed because it started to democratize.
If that didn't happened, the Cold war would still be going on today.

Decade after decade of hatred and propaganda between the Eastern and Western world. I for one do not want to see that happening again.

[Kuntantee]

You don't need to go far to observe a dictatorship in the making; check Turkey.

[Edge-]

Trump banned people from what, seven countries? If he was going to ban "all muslims" why only seven countries?

I was talking about his earlier proposed Muslim ban, you know, the one I linked to? The one where it was a blanket "temporary" ban for all Muslims entering the US? The one that brought widespread condemnation from almost everyone?

Please actually bother to read what I link if you're going to engage in discussion. Otherwise I'm left responding to correct your misconceptions due to you assuming shit.

You have decided that when Trump says "deport every illegal immigrant" it means going door to door. You created that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...tino-families/

Yes, he has proposed deporting all of them. I didn't create the notion of ICE going door to door as a result, to do so he would need to have ICE agents going door to door to ensure peoples legal status.

Just because the campaign is over doesn't mean that all the dumb shit he said during the campaign to please his bigoted supporters goes away, dude.

Also, you don't think deporting three million illegal immigrants isn't "mass-deporation"? If three million isn't "mass deportation", what number does Trump need to hit before it becomes "mass deportation". Now, here is the kicker, during those three million deportations of illegal immigrants, are you saying ICE officials or agents weren't going to the doors of people they suspect of being here illegally?

See above, he referenced deporting all 11M+ illegal immigrants in the country. He did not differentiate between those who had committed criminal acts while in the US and those who hadn't until later, after he was resoundingly criticized by officials on all sides.

Barack Obama was also famously pitting his administration against the media as well. Not the mainstream media, but media outlets nonetheless.

Not remotely the same, this is called a false equivalence. His adversarial relationship with Fox News was not an attack on the media as a whole, nor did he ever actually attack them. He critiqued them, but he still sat down to give them 1 on 1 interviews.

Not even in the same ballpark, I'm honestly not sure how you can compare the two.

So you have Barack Obama pitting his administration against media outlets, you have Obama deporting three million illegal immigrants, and the same plans that Trump is using are the same plans the Obama administration came up with more or less.

I mean, if you grossly misrepresent all of that, sure, I guess. But for the rest of us who live in a reality of facts and context, no.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

You don't need to go far to observe a dictatorship in the making; check Turkey.

Quick question, as I know little to nothing of Turkey.

Does Turkey have an independent Supreme Court?

Does Turkey have both an independent Senate and Congress?

Does Turkey have 50 independent Governors?

Does Turkey have centuries of living under a pretty amazing Constitution?


I don't know about you, but even as a Trump supporter, I am an American first, as I believe most Trump supporters are, and in no way could Trump suddenly install himself as dictator.

It's as if no one understands the complete nature of the US's system of checks & balances in regards to power.

[cubby]

Because people are finally paying attention.

I hope that when better minds oust Trump in 2019 that we don't become complacent over the next 10 years and forget what happened. Bush was a headache - plus two unfunded wars. Trump is a train wreck (and only day 9). Hopefully it won't take the DNC as long to fix what he fucks up. And perhaps we can wait until the GOP regains it's sanity before letting another one of their unpopular elected idiots into the White House.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

I was talking about his earlier proposed Muslim ban, you know, the one I linked to? The one where it was a blanket "temporary" ban for all Muslims entering the US? The one that brought widespread condemnation from almost everyone?

Please actually bother to read what I link if you're going to engage in discussion. Otherwise I'm left responding to correct your misconceptions due to you assuming shit.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...tino-families/

Yes, he has proposed deporting all of them. I didn't create the notion of ICE going door to door as a result, to do so he would need to have ICE agents going door to door to ensure peoples legal status.

Just because the campaign is over doesn't mean that all the dumb shit he said during the campaign to please his bigoted supporters goes away, dude.



See above, he referenced deporting all 11M+ illegal immigrants in the country. He did not differentiate between those who had committed criminal acts while in the US and those who hadn't until later, after he was resoundingly criticized by officials on all sides.



Not remotely the same, this is called a false equivalence. His adversarial relationship with Fox News was not an attack on the media as a whole, nor did he ever actually attack them. He critiqued them, but he still sat down to give them 1 on 1 interviews.

Not even in the same ballpark, I'm honestly not sure how you can compare the two.



I mean, if you grossly misrepresent all of that, sure, I guess. But for the rest of us who live in a reality of facts and context, no.

Couple things....


Trump has done interviews too though. He just did an interview on ABC news. Trump, much like Obama has simply critiqued the media.



Being here illegally is a criminal act.

How can you not understand such a basic and simple concept?

Also, you would have to be completely fucking stupid to believe that everyone of those three million deportations were the cause of them committing a separate criminal act beyond being here illegally which again is a criminal act.

Oh, and please link where Trump has said "he is going to go door to door". Like an actual article and not something you have created in your fantasy la la land.

- - - Updated - - -

Because people are finally paying attention.

I hope that when better minds oust Trump in 2019 that we don't become complacent over the next 10 years and forget what happened. Bush was a headache - plus two unfunded wars. Trump is a train wreck (and only day 9). Hopefully it won't take the DNC as long to fix what he fucks up. And perhaps we can wait until the GOP regains it's sanity before letting another one of their unpopular elected idiots into the White House.

We had to survive eight years of that stupid idiot Obama, you should owe us at least 16 years of Trump.

[Kuntantee]

Does Turkey have an independent Supreme Court?

In theory yes, but they are under pressure.

Does Turkey have both an independent Senate and Congress?

We just have one senate. They are also supposed to oversee/control the government, but the transparency seems to be an issue.

Does Turkey have 50 independent Governors?

Turkey has governors but they are FAR from being independent. They are basically assigned by the government.

Does Turkey have centuries of living under a pretty amazing Constitution?

We have two centuries of living under a constitution but hardly amazing.


The current constitution is not amazing, but it's doing its job, although can be improved a lot. The problem is proposed changes which will be asked in a referendum soon. It crushes the checks and balances completely. It will make Turkey a constitutionally supported dictatorship.

[Edge-]

Trump has done interviews too though. He just did an interview on ABC news. Trump, much like Obama has simply critiqued the media.

No, not "much like Obama". That's a baldface lie. Obama has never attacked the press as an institution, or even singled out a single outlet, in the way Trump has. Ever. Yes, he'll give Fox a ribbing at the White House Correspondence dinner, but that's the point of the dinner.

Being here illegally is a criminal act.

How can you not understand such a basic and simple concept?

This is correct, but largely there's been a position that illegals here who abide by our laws and have set down roots are not aggressively sought out and deported. This has been the case for decades, and a change in policy means a huge disruption to a large part of our economy.

Not to mention it's fucking inhuman, as many of the children know only the US as their home. Shit, even the GOP was against the blanket deportation comments, for fucks sake. They're here now, and we need to find a way to humanely deal with them while addressing the ongoing issue.

Also, you would have to be completely fucking stupid to believe that everyone of those three million deportations were the cause of them committing a separate criminal act beyond being here illegally which again is a criminal act.

I believe it includes those who were caught at the border and deported back to their home countries, but I'd have to double check.

But Obama has not being doing home-raids like Trump would need to in order to deport all illegal migrants.

Oh, and please link where Trump has said "he is going to go door to door". Like an actual article and not something you have created in your fantasy la la land.

Again, that's the only way to do it. He literally would not be able to deport them all unless he sent ICE door to door, dude.

[cubby]

We had to survive eight years of that stupid idiot Obama, you should owe us at least 16 years of Trump.

One thing Obama is not, is stupid. And getting into a discussion with someone like you, who enjoys "alternative facts" and complete disillusionment of reality, about the gains Obama made for this country would be unconscionable. You'll have to look that up - I'm not going to explain it to you.

I will add one caveat - I'm not the Obama-love-fest machine - he certainly made mistakes, and didn't do enough in areas I thought he should have. But he will go down in history as one of the best Presidents in modern times.

Unless you Orwellian fruitcakes get ahold of the past.

He who controls the past controls the future.
He who controls the present controls the past.

[PC2]

Agree with this. People need to wake up and go to the streets to protest actions that go counter to Western Ideals. That also includes Voting, and funding groups that will fight this, like the ACLU.

Sure you should support the policy you want, but most all of protesting hotspots put them overwhelmingly in the way of Democrats.

[Daelak]

From what I have seen around CA and elsewhere, this is just the beginning... should be an interesting 2/4/8 years...

We are experiencing the rise of authoritarian white nationalism, especially since Bannon has been included in NSC briefings. This is exactly what Trump supporters want, and why conservative republicans aren't saying anything, because their ideology is rooted in 18th and 19th century Deep Southern Authoritarianism, which is antithetical to liberal democracy.

[Lochton]

You make it sound like political alignment can never change... like you're born a liberal for life

Ah, darn, you stole my comment!

[satimy]

Trump has exposed the super crazies on the left and how much influence they have(way more than the tea party).

[Thepersona]

So maybe democrats will get a spine and listen? Thats a good thing either way. Either the Republicans wake up and realize Trump is damaging their brand in the long run, or the Democrats wake up and vote out the GOP in 2018, and stand in the way of Trump on every issue that is counter to the Western Way of Life/Age of Enlightenment.

some did. look for justice democrats

[Daelak]

I agree, and I think the rise of people fighting authoritarianism, and its rise is just the beginning of the response. Every action has a reaction. The current protests are just a start of bigger things to come if Trump keeps doing what he is doing. Which from all appearances, looks like he will continue to be a Malignant Narcissist. He has been that going on ~70 years.

There will be an overwhelming response because conservative/authoritarian ideology has been granted outsized influence and control in state and federal governance due to abuses in redistricting and voter suppression laws, but their popular support is nowhere near their propaganda sources say they are.

[Deleted]

People getting properly informed is always a plus, specially considering the current times.

[Deleted]

Yes, people are just getting hysterical. The irony is that the kinds of people currently throwing a hissy over everything Trump does: a) opened the door to this in the first place, and b) are pretty authoritarian themselves, and would quite happily live in a world where all kinds of things they don't like are banned or illegal.

[Daelak]

Yes, people are just getting hysterical. The irony is that the kinds of people currently throwing a hissy over everything Trump does: a) opened the door to this in the first place, and b) are pretty authoritarian themselves, and would quite happily live in a world where all kinds of things they don't like are banned or illegal.

Like what? Give an example of people protesting authoritarianism are authoritarians themselves.

[Slant]

Explain how being for "America First" is unAmerican?

Some of you are so beyond the pale of rationality

If you want the immigration laws followed that were created by Americans for Americans, and are similar to every other country's immigration policy you are "unAmerican".

If you don't want a 40 year old balding man, wearing lipstick and a sundress to have access to the girl's bathroom where your 10 year old daughter is, you are "unAmerican".

If you won't spend your free time and change your life completely around learning the gender pro-nouns we just made up and understand the 75 and counting genders then you are "unAmerican".

America First is not what your country was built on. That's what's un-American about it. America was built on inclusion rather than exclusion, tolerance instead of intolerance, liberty instead of putting people in a holding cell because of their faith, cooperation instead of confrontation, trying to do "the right thing for humanity" instead of using humanity to do "the right thing for America".

Americans in the past 100 years have sacrificed a lot to give you the right to have an opinion, for your Muslim neighbour to not be persecuted for his faith, for people all over the world to have a goal to achieve, a nation to look up to. A shining example of democracy and political prudency.

America stood for forgiving mistakes and helping rather than beating the man who's down. It stood for the American Dream that everyone can make it, even the dish washer. It stood for free trade instead of the European idea of protectionism (Boston Tea Party, anyone?). It stood for freedom of thought instead of suppressing dissent with harsh rethorics and insults.

All of those things are things that are now in danger. And so what Trump does is un-American. This is not the nation that helped Germany grow into being a useful member of the global community. This is not the nation that put men on the moon just because they felt like doing so. This is not the nation that taught Europe a lesson about peaceful coexistance. This is not the nation that brought the Soviet Union to its knees and won a war without ever firing a bullet (figuratively).

Think about what it means to be American. Being American always meant a shitton of things us outsiders could only understand half of. But one thing I'm pretty sure about... being a selfish asshole has never been "American".