[Discussion] Disc Healing Compared To Other Healers [Comparison][Raiding][Mythic+]

[Supliftz]

I was not talking about raid cd phases. That particular comment was about a specific boss (I don't remember, it also might have been disc discord). I'm sure you can find it, but most of you agreed. It was kinda funny given how no one ever really cared about the 'efficiency of a class' (outside of raid cds) until Disc strolled along.

Indeed, lots of innervates, but Disc is by far the most mana starved class. The difference is that all of those classes can pump out numbers without requiring innervates. Disc needs innervates only to barely break in the middle of the pack.

Disc is also completely different to most classes. I do remember playing mistweaver and optimizing tft + x2 chi brew burst phases in my 10 man group back in ToT. That's very different but the idea is the same

Anyway... How exactly do you know how mana starved disc priest is compared to other classes, when almost every resto druid parse has access to multiple innervates? How exactly can you prove this in nighthold when ALL top end parses have wisdoms or innervates in them?

I also don't understand this meme about needing innervates to be middle of the pack. My progression helya log had 1 boomkin innervate over a 10 minute boss, and I was 50k ahead of the next person at the time. The next highest disc log was 110k hps behind. 1 innervate is not literally 100k more hps for disc, that's insane. That difference is coming from the very large skillcap difference between me and other disc priests.

Like I said, yea disc needs innervates to achieve insane numbers, but you certainly don't need innervates to do competitive hps in your raid. You just need a working brain for that.

If Disc dps so important a) why did disc number go to hell? And b) why don't RLs really care about that all that much? Why isn't the combination of best burst healing in the game +invaluable dps for progreww recognized among top guilds?

I don't really know what you mean with a. I'm guessing you mean why did disc dps go down compared to your co-dps. The reason is dps have legendaries which increase their dps, and disc does not have access to these (outside of smite belt which is only a viable legendary for 1 boss this tier). A lack of good dps relics and healers not getting gear on prog also influences this. This is something blizzard should look into. The good thing is, if they find disc dps being too lackluster, they can just increase artifactal damage and call it a day.

For your next point, I don't understand how you can seriously make this point. Rofl if you're doing comparable hps to your co-healers as a disc priest, you're pretty much always going to see a progression raid spot. You're doing the same (or more in my case) healing than your co-healers, and doing 180k+ dps. That's extremely valuable, especially in a tier like this, where the enrage timers have been so tight.

I've posted this a lot in the h2p discord, but people get this weird idea that top end players can play every single class in the game. This really isn't the case. The best example I can think of was apku in method. He really could not play mistweaver monk to save his life. The reality is it's much harder to play disc, and it takes more than 1 pull to figure out a boss. Compare that to a resto druid, which is always going to cast rejuv regardless of the scenario. Disc actually needs a few pulls to figure out timings, and then it's fine. This problem normally doesn't bleed over into mythic, as mythic and heroic bosses generally share timers, but if blizzard ever decides to make M Helya again, disc isn't exactly the best choice for WF progression.

The other issue is disc can't play the role of support. The only way of playing disc currently is big dick max hps at all times, and all your healers play around your weaknesses (burst spot healing, sustained tank hps). This is fine, as your burst/sustain hps with access to multiple innervates is extremely high, and you provide the raid the ability to burst heal any threatening burst of damage, on top of free dps. That said, if you aren't in this position, disc is extremely average compared to a druid.

To summarize, I would say the problem in the wf setting is simply not being good enough at disc (or your disc player quits b4 prog) combined with not being in the role where you can showcase the power of this spec. This has nothing at all to do with disc being unviable. This is something blizzard really needs to fix with talents, which is what sigma has hinted at on the forums.

All of the evidence points to that disc is in a really weird place at the moment. Declining numbers, lower average hps and dps that no one really carew about. Sups, you do wonders with the spec, but you are not representative of the whole spec. Average Disc player is much worse (skill/average hps), and it shows.

All the evidences shows is average disc priests aren't very good? Hard spec is hard? I mean my hps compared to other classes being fed innervates/wisdoms is either equal or ahead. if your point was about average disc players, idk why you conflated that point with WF progression viability. I can agree the spec needs help for average players, but it's completely fine in the WF race.

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Sups, you're my disc hero, and what you're saying might be correct in higher settings, but in medium guilds (like mine), things are far less organized that this. Fights are not balanced around having a disc with "unlimited" cds, so most of the time big raidwide hits don't happen so often that the other healers run out of their cds, and if they have them, they will use them, nobody just sits on their hands to give disc priests room to shine, especially since often us being targeted by random shit that requires us to move wrecks our setting up/burst too. We've been doing hc NH, and I can't count the number of times I setup 15 atonements, raid dmg hits and dmg is topped before I get to cast LW, so I simply have to cancel the cast, if I manage to do it, or watch it drown in overhealing. You could say that disc is not meant to shine in hc environment, but we are being judged initially in this environment. You could also say that disc is not meant to be played outside super organized setups that know its strengths, I don't have any argument against this.

As for the dps part, we had some close kills occasionally, which made me think my dps mattered. Nobody ever noticed it, and our dps seems scaling a lot slower than dps/tanks.

I mean even in heroic modes you can still plan around disc priests, in the same way you plan around tranq. If you play with bad players who waste mana sniping your cds, I don't really know what advice I can give you. Don't play with bad players?

That said, the spec isn't designed around hc mode content. The fact is all healers are naturally a lot worse in 30 man content, as the damage becomes very random and hard to react to efficiently. The issue really is disc priests don't have a raid cd like htt or tranq which scales with the number of players. I don't really know how exactly disc can fix this problem without completely redesigning the raid cds.

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Well, actually, no, it's not that easy. Maybe it is for top organized guilds and top disc priests. But I'm a pretty mediocre player and play in pretty mediocre semi-casual guild. I know all the disc theory, I could probably give lectures or write essays. But my reflexes and game awareness are not the best, and there is not much I can do about it, apart from wiping 100 times on same boss. So every time we distribute the healing CDs, I'm a bit reluctant to assign myself, because I'm scared to fuck up my ramp up, because I missed the mechanics timer and started casting too late (or too early), or had to run away and break the cast or something else. I just sort of stay behind the scenes try to optimise myself until I feel sure enough in myself to start being vocal. I probably should have rerolled to some different healer, because I can't deliver 100% as disc in raid, but I'm too attached to my character and spec, and I'm doing pretty good in M+, and my healing numbers are on par with my co-healers

You either need to take the initiative and try to plan cds around yourself and work with your raid, or accept the fact that you'll perform poorly. There's no alternatives here. Yea it's kinda shitty you're forced to play like this, but if you're going to continue playing disc in a heroic raid, this is what needs to be done. That or bite the bullet and play holy.

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This raises another problem. How do we train ? Spec is supposed to be hard. It plays very differently in 5 men content and raid. How are we supposed to get experience ? If nm/hc aren't damaging enough for us to do significant healing because there isn't enough significant damage, How am I to know I did my job correctly and the 75% overhealing will translate in good healing when we reach mythic ?

This is really the major problem here. Mistweaver in MoP/WoD had this exact problem. The playstyles are so different between 5 man disc and raid disc. This is a really easy fix though. Disc has all the tools ready to be entirely atonement based in 5 mans (legendaries, scaling damage with mobs, good cds, etc). It just needs numbers.

Imagine if shadow covenant was redesigned to a % increase to atonement transfer that scales down with the number of atonements you have active. This would also be a great raid talent for bosses like star augur, as you would have the healing to deal with random damage, and not lose much total hps during your burst healing phases. The only thing you would be giving up is purge the wicked.

[Deleted]

Anyway... How exactly do you know how mana starved disc priest is compared to other classes, when almost every resto druid parse has access to multiple innervates? How exactly can you prove this in nighthold when ALL top end parses have wisdoms or innervates in them?

I occasionally play holy too. I only use one mana trinket, I'm deffo worse at holy than at disc, and I have nowhere close to the same mana issues. And I see finishing fights with 10% mana while the resto druids are at 70% and declare they didn't even need their own innervates. I see them discussing about throughput trinkets, which for me are a no-no. None of the other classes needs 2 mana trinkets - unless they get external clutches. Resto druids using their own innervates is not an argument, they are just using their own class mechanics, just like we have rapture. It's not just a case of top parses. Disc is mana starved even while doing medium healing. I'd have no issue with being mana starved and producing humongous hps, there needs to be a limitation.

I'm guessing you mean why did disc dps go down compared to your co-dps. The reason is dps have legendaries which increase their dps, and disc does not have access to these (outside of smite belt which is only a viable legendary for 1 boss this tier). A lack of good dps relics and healers not getting gear on prog also influences this. This is something blizzard should look into. The good thing is, if they find disc dps being too lackluster, they can just increase artifactal damage and call it a day.

We were supposed to do similar dps with tanks, but they are already at least 30% higher than us. Our dps is also not scaling well because, regardless of the fact blizzard thinks we should be using dps trinkets (as our loot tables show), we actually aren't, we're stuck on trinkets available more or less at the start of the expansion with no particularly amazing choices in the current tier.

The other issue is disc can't play the role of support. The only way of playing disc currently is big dick max hps at all times, and all your healers play around your weaknesses (burst spot healing, sustained tank hps). This is fine, as your burst/sustain hps with access to multiple innervates is extremely high, and you provide the raid the ability to burst heal any threatening burst of damage, on top of free dps. That said, if you aren't in this position, disc is extremely average compared to a druid.

While not ideal perhaps, I'm afraid this is the situation happening in most guilds. Is there anything in the current content that needs a disc priest huge burst? Not really. When most other healers can do same in a simpler way, us asking our teams to take a step back only for us to prove we can heal if others play around us is a questionable endeavor. Most people don't even understand how disc works. Our raidleader, who is not a moron otherwise, and plays a healer occasionally (albeit not disc priest) always gets stuck when he has to put my cd on the list. He resigned into writing "saph do priest stuff". He also often puts my cd in some phase when we are moving, because it's rather complicated for him to remember that I need 10 seconds of setup sitting on my ass followed by a dps burst that has a little more mobility. It's not just a problem that disc is complex for us, we play it, it's normal to learn it. It's complicated for our raidleaders that also have to understand how it works.

To summarize, I would say the problem in the wf setting is simply not being good enough at disc (or your disc player quits b4 prog) combined with not being in the role where you can showcase the power of this spec. This has nothing at all to do with disc being unviable. This is something blizzard really needs to fix with talents, which is what sigma has hinted at on the forums.

Idd it's not unviable. It's just extremely niche, and most guilds can't be arsed to learn specifics to put us in positions where we can showcase our strengths. If WF guilds can't be arsed to do that, what expectations to have from regular ones, who look a lot of wf setups but without the deeper understanding those guilds do have.
I'm not sure what hint you talk about, I saw the other day on the european forums some post about something apparently posted by a blue that manifested some concerns about our narrow window of opportunity and the sorts. In all honesty, I'm more worried than happy about the post. I'm afraid they will buff insignificantly our weak points while nerfing the shit out of the strong ones. Kinda like they buffed solace and shadow covenant while nerfind mindbender.

I mean even in heroic modes you can still plan around disc priests, in the same way you plan around tranq. If you play with bad players who waste mana sniping your cds, I don't really know what advice I can give you. Don't play with bad players?

That said, the spec isn't designed around hc mode content. The fact is all healers are naturally a lot worse in 30 man content, as the damage becomes very random and hard to react to efficiently. The issue really is disc priests don't have a raid cd like htt or tranq which scales with the number of players. I don't really know how exactly disc can fix this problem without completely redesigning the raid cds.

They are people I played with for years. Not the best around, but good enough for me, who I am myself rather average. I'm not gonna quit them because they don't see the point in arranging their game around me. I don't really want that kind of role.
As for the disc cd issue, I can't see either something to be done, which is why I'm more afraid of that statement than assured. I would like LW to be instant tbh. Considering it's got a cd and needs 10-12 seconds of setup sitting on our behinds, it really doesn't need a long casting time and a travel time too.

You either need to take the initiative and try to plan cds around yourself and work with your raid, or accept the fact that you'll perform poorly. There's no alternatives here. Yea it's kinda shitty you're forced to play like this, but if you're going to continue playing disc in a heroic raid, this is what needs to be done. That or bite the bullet and play holy.

I just stepped down from an officer position held for 4 years. I'm burned out of taking initiatives and organizing things, last thing I want is to take it back up, especially in a manner that looks selfish to me. So yeah, I'm aware it's something I'll have to deal with or play holy, which I always disliked.

This is really the major problem here. Mistweaver in MoP/WoD had this exact problem. The playstyles are so different between 5 man disc and raid disc. This is a really easy fix though. Disc has all the tools ready to be entirely atonement based in 5 mans (legendaries, scaling damage with mobs, good cds, etc). It just needs numbers.

Imagine if shadow covenant was redesigned to a % increase to atonement transfer that scales down with the number of atonements you have active. This would also be a great raid talent for bosses like star augur, as you would have the healing to deal with random damage, and not lose much total hps during your burst healing phases. The only thing you would be giving up is purge the wicked.

I'm actually enjoying dungeons as disc more than raiding right now, shadowmend spam unavoidable included.

[longxia]

You either need to take the initiative and try to plan cds around yourself and work with your raid, or accept the fact that you'll perform poorly. There's no alternatives here. Yea it's kinda shitty you're forced to play like this, but if you're going to continue playing disc in a heroic raid, this is what needs to be done. That or bite the bullet and play holy.

You mean, the raid has to work around the disc priest? If that Disc priest is the guild leader or heals team officer maybe, otherwise people are just going to get annoyed very fast. It is far more likely if I pushed that I would be gkicked rather than get all the other healers working around my playstyle.

At my last guild the heals team officer fed himself all the Innervates, at my new guild the new heals team officer does the same. Both got pissed off and flatly refused when pressed about it. No-one cares about my spec issues and personal needs and wants, its more about what I can do for the guild, not vice versa.

I dont even know why people bother arguing over semantics and theory, just look at world-wide participation. What percentage of Disc priest toons from WoD have been abandoned? I would guesstimate 90% and that is going to get closer and closer to 100% as the expansion goes on. Are all those players morons and bads? No, and their collective judgement weighs far heavier than any one players theory.

If Disc was a city it would be Chernobyl, a once thriving town hurriedly abandoned, silent and rusting. This is the reality of Disc not some theoretical potential under the right conditions, or the bullshit max parses at Warcraftlogs.

On a positive note, Holy is nowhere near as weak and boring as in the past, its fun give it a try.

I don't really know how exactly disc can fix this problem without completely redesigning the raid cds.

Well this is the big problem, it is the core of Disc gameplay that is crap its not a numbers tuning issue, and there is no way Blizzard is going to completely redesign the spec until the next expansion.

Just witness their recent huge buffs to Disc! The DPS trinkets on our loot table now do 35% of a real DPS trinket instead of 30% Woooooooah!! http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...mind-blown.gif

[Supliftz]

I occasionally play holy too. I only use one mana trinket, I'm deffo worse at holy than at disc, and I have nowhere close to the same mana issues. And I see finishing fights with 10% mana while the resto druids are at 70% and declare they didn't even need their own innervates. I see them discussing about throughput trinkets, which for me are a no-no. None of the other classes needs 2 mana trinkets - unless they get external clutches. Resto druids using their own innervates is not an argument, they are just using their own class mechanics, just like we have rapture. It's not just a case of top parses. Disc is mana starved even while doing medium healing. I'd have no issue with being mana starved and producing humongous hps, there needs to be a limitation.

Oh I see, rdruids are just using their class mechanics, even though the only difference between rdruid and boomkin innervate is 10% haste. Lets just completely ignore the fact even with their own innervate rdruid mana is still garbage, just like disc priest mana.

This is dumb logic with mana trinkets. Mana trinkets barely influence your total mana over an encounter. The reason why we're using them over other alternatives is they scale the best. If you have velens or a god tier stat stick, and a shitty spine, the former is superior to latter.

While not ideal perhaps, I'm afraid this is the situation happening in most guilds. Is there anything in the current content that needs a disc priest huge burst? Not really. When most other healers can do same in a simpler way, us asking our teams to take a step back only for us to prove we can heal if others play around us is a questionable endeavor. Most people don't even understand how disc works. Our raidleader, who is not a moron otherwise, and plays a healer occasionally (albeit not disc priest) always gets stuck when he has to put my cd on the list. He resigned into writing "saph do priest stuff". He also often puts my cd in some phase when we are moving, because it's rather complicated for him to remember that I need 10 seconds of setup sitting on my ass followed by a dps burst that has a little more mobility. It's not just a problem that disc is complex for us, we play it, it's normal to learn it. It's complicated for our raidleaders that also have to understand how it works.

Um what kind of question is that? This would be like me saying "is there any current content that needs a tranq or a htt?". Almost every fight in the entire game has scripted burst healing. Of course you don't -need- disc priest burst, but you also don't need to have a shaman in for the same burst. The only healer that brings something truly required is holy paladin.

Also why is it a problem for a disc priest to ask your healers not to randomly waste their cds when you use your equivalent burst healing cd, but it isn't a problem when they use their burst cd? What exactly is questionable about disc priest burst?

The rest of this point can be summed with up "well i'm too lazy to explain my class mechanics to my raid leader, so i'm going to qq that disc sucks". This is on you to explain to your healing officer what to do. I've never once had this problem explaining how disc works to my officers. I'm sorry disc requires you speak up to optimize it.

I just stepped down from an officer position held for 4 years. I'm burned out of taking initiatives and organizing things, last thing I want is to take it back up, especially in a manner that looks selfish to me. So yeah, I'm aware it's something I'll have to deal with or play holy, which I always disliked.

Well sorry, this is the only way you can play disc, either accept you'll perform averagely, or take the initiative.

[Desmonda]

The spec is too dependent on structural factors to really perform at its best. Its already been said here so I won't repeat other than to say: being fed innervates, coordinating with other healers so that our heals aren't sniped, knowing the encounter to the second, etc. makes the spec too dependent. I liked the independence of the earlier iterations of the spec. Sure I was tired of bubble spam but that could have been fixed very easily. And Im really bored of hearing from top disc priest in raid guilds that coordinate everything how groovy the spec is...its not. The spec was a bad experiment that I am sure the Devs are fussing about tryng to correct.

[Deleted]

Oh I see, rdruids are just using their class mechanics, even though the only difference between rdruid and boomkin innervate is 10% haste. Lets just completely ignore the fact even with their own innervate rdruid mana is still garbage, just like disc priest mana.
This is dumb logic with mana trinkets. Mana trinkets barely influence your total mana over an encounter. The reason why we're using them over other alternatives is they scale the best. If you have velens or a god tier stat stick, and a shitty spine, the former is superior to latter.

If their mana is so garbage, why don't I ever see them complaining about it, and they use throughput trinkets? Sure you can tell me they are better players than I am, but looking at EN rankings, mine overall are better than theirs. And I don't recall any of them asking for external innervates, although the reason might be the fact we generally don't have one. And mana trinkets barely influence our mana over an encounter? Why the hell am I using an 850 spine over the large array of 890 dps trinkets blizzard shoved up my inventory? I could be using Velen's or a god tier stat stick? Well, my legendaries so far are Sephuz, Maiev, Nero and the pain supp bracers, and the best stat stick I have around is 860 with a socket, but I'll keep an eye open for them. I do have 3 superior versions of Eye of Skovald though and several others that I didn't bother memorizing, but last I checked they were all ranked under a shitty spine.

Um what kind of question is that? This would be like me saying "is there any current content that needs a tranq or a htt?". Almost every fight in the entire game has scripted burst healing. Of course you don't -need- disc priest burst, but you also don't need to have a shaman in for the same burst. The only healer that brings something truly required is holy paladin.

Because all we really bring special is the possibility of more cooldowns, with the limitation of mana and having to know beforehand when the dmg happens, or generally needing a ramp up time for about 10 seconds. Most bosses I saw in NH so far don't need more cds. Most of them seem to need some kind of spot healing though.

Also why is it a problem for a disc priest to ask your healers not to randomly waste their cds when you use your equivalent burst healing cd, but it isn't a problem when they use their burst cd? What exactly is questionable about disc priest burst?

Frankly, they don't even need to use their cds. I've seen the raid topped while I was casting a LW without any of them using cds. And if the assignments say "tranq on x ability" and they know it's more than 2 mins until it happens, why wouldn't they freely use it when they feel fit? It's not waste. Yeah, I know, hc modes and what not, but somehow I didn't feel so bad in EN hc.

The rest of this point can be summed with up "well i'm too lazy to explain my class mechanics to my raid leader, so i'm going to qq that disc sucks". This is on you to explain to your healing officer what to do. I've never once had this problem explaining how disc works to my officers. I'm sorry disc requires you speak up to optimize it.

First of all, I never complained that disc sucks, mainly because I don't think it does. In fact, I'm one of the rather few people on the european forums that defended the spec since the start of Legion. But what you are saying basically means half the "difficulty" of disc is determining your guild to learn your spec and play around its strengths. It's not supposed to be hard just for us, but we also need to educate our guilds too into knowing, otherwise we're lazy.

Well sorry, this is the only way you can play disc, either accept you'll perform averagely, or take the initiative.

I am aware. As said, I play with these people for years, I won't leave them because they are not interested in learning how my class works, and in return, they won't kick me even if I'm average. When HFC ended, we had 3 healing priests in the raid team (yeah, we've never been particularly optimized), and one of them has taken my place in the healing officer spot - and he preferred leveling his shadow rather than disc, although he has played disc in the past. Very few people are interested in the spec, it's seen just "too weird". Without being impressive, my rankings once I learn the fights are higher than the other healers, although that doesn't really show a lot of meters, so that remains something only I really know about to help with the frustration. It felt good to play on bosses like Cenarius, where I could finally see the usual humongous overhealing being useful, but feels so rare. Most of the times I go to sleep frustrated because I feel slow to react to any unexpected damage, like a missed interrupt or some dude blowing up in the raid, while everything predictable is covered just as fine by other healers too.

[PosPosPos]

If their mana is so garbage, why don't I ever see them complaining about it, and they use throughput trinkets? Sure you can tell me they are better players than I am, but looking at EN rankings, mine overall are better than theirs. And I don't recall any of them asking for external innervates, although the reason might be the fact we generally don't have one. And mana trinkets barely influence our mana over an encounter?

Hint: because they can innervate themselves. Mindblowing, I know.

[Deleted]

Hint: because they can innervate themselves. Mindblowing, I know.

You mean using their own class mechanics, independent of other people in the raid, whisper macros or explanations to your raidleader why their class benefits most of an external?
Idd mindblowing.
Can I have the same or would that qualify as qq?

[PosPosPos]

You mean using their own class mechanics, independent of other people in the raid, whisper macros or explanations to your raidleader why their class benefits most of an external?
Idd mindblowing.
Can I have the same or would that qualify as qq?

The class mechanic which can be cast on other healers. I know, difficult concept.

[Deleted]

The class mechanic which can be cast on other healers. I know, difficult concept.

You mean like Power Infusion used to be? I grasped that concept a long time ago, when I was putting it on mages.
I'm ok with my own cd being shareable . Not like I ever saw a resto druid casting it on anybody else - or I'm supposed to ask for those too?

Look, I'm not saying disc sucks. I didn't bloody get my artifact to 47 for a spec I think "sucks". I enjoy the spec, I think it's fun, although less in raids than in 5 man content. What is so hard to understand that it is unpleasant to struggle being self sufficient, of depending on your own reflexes and knowledge, and not wanting the rest of the team to revolve around you? Doable? Sure. Disc can be played without innervates? Sure. Can we drop the whole "disc can't be played properly without innervates" debate, I don't think this is the main disc issue atm, at least not for me, I played without innervates for most of EN, and it was fine. I didn't shine like a star, but I kept up with the other healers, occasionally outhealed them, and that's good enough for me.

I only replied to the question: "How exactly do you know how mana starved disc priest is compared to other classes?". It wasn't even addressed to me, so it's not like I started the "qq". I only relayed personal experience, that I don't face similar issues when playing an offspec and that >insert random healer class< doesn't complain about mana/spam BRH ad nausea like I do. Sure you can tell me "that's just you having these issues because you're bad" and call it a day?

PS: Sups is still my disc hero, and I appreciated his answers.

[Zhaelan]

So I've been lurking just reading all the comments, just came on to comment on the bit sups talked about shadow covenant

Imagine if shadow covenant was redesigned to a % increase to atonement transfer that scales down with the number of atonements you have active. This would also be a great raid talent for bosses like star augur, as you would have the healing to deal with random damage, and not lose much total hps during your burst healing phases. The only thing you would be giving up is purge the wicked.

OMG, can we have this now??!??!??!? I've been thinking one way they could make shadow covenant non garbage would be to of course remove the absorb but to also combine it with schism, as in instead of a dps ability to buff atonement healing, have a pseudo aoe heal designed specifically around buffing atonement healing in low atonement situations.

This I think would solve most of the issues disc faces without breaking them.

[cardinail]

Did you read the blue post about changes to atonement? I hope they somehow fix it so I dont have to track 5 CDs, and have all my keybound bars filled with macroed spells...
After playing my mistweaver monk for a few weaks, I realized disc is just too much hassle and tried holy, even tho I was a big fun of disc. For a random M+ or kara holy is just so much easier and more relaxing, probably the reason why noone plays disc in general.

[KaPe]

Did you read the blue post about changes to atonement? I hope they somehow fix it so I dont have to track 5 CDs, and have all my keybound bars filled with macroed spells...
After playing my mistweaver monk for a few weaks, I realized disc is just too much hassle and tried holy, even tho I was a big fun of disc. For a random M+ or kara holy is just so much easier and more relaxing, probably the reason why noone plays disc in general.

They recognize the problem, but don't have any solutions just yet. At very least, they realize that current Disc is pretty awkward and even though some people manage to use it to an amazing degree, the majority does not.

Also, "extremely sensitive to added mana in raids" straight from a blue, after all those "nono, we *totally* don't benefit from multiple Innervates, honest".

[MendUS]

Did you read the blue post about changes to atonement? I hope they somehow fix it so I dont have to track 5 CDs, and have all my keybound bars filled with macroed spells...
After playing my mistweaver monk for a few weaks, I realized disc is just too much hassle and tried holy, even tho I was a big fun of disc. For a random M+ or kara holy is just so much easier and more relaxing, probably the reason why noone plays disc in general.

Probably the reason you don't play Disc in general.

FTFY

[Deleted]

I tried healing some mythic few months ago as holy, because people seemed somewhat..prejudiced and declined my application as disc several times. Went fine, but I still prefer disc. It just comes more naturally.
Nowadays I don't seem to have issues anymore getting m+ groups as disc, but reckon I pug rarely (mainly BRH keys).

[worcester]

Regardless of all the numbers and viability and whatnot. I feel like they made disc complex for complexities sake. But I honestly don't see why single target smart healing atonement of MoP wasn't ported in as is. We already have resto shamans bombing the raid with powerful smart heals that is chain heal. I really think MoP version of atonement wasn't all that powerful and Divine Aegis/Spirit Shell was the true evils. Of course, atonement was gutted instead of shields... just look how great wod turned out.

I mean if it spot healed double of current dps, thats still only 250k hps smart heal. The rest of the 150-200k hps would have to be made by casting regular healing spells in between, thus avoiding "it's skill-less" trap. Which also I don't understand why everyone is hating on easy specs, everyone wants to show how "skillful" they are and we must raise the ceiling more and more as if wow is a difficult game that requires much skill at all.... Every healer spams 1 skill that does 30-40% of their total healing.

Currently, everything is tied to atonement and Light's Wrath. Looking at how dominant holy paladin and resto shaman are, we could've used an extra spec at the spot healing niche. You can hate on me and call out all the casuals for being bad etc, but I'm going to say that discs skill ceiling is too high for a game like wow. High skill should show mastery of the spec, not be required to play the spec at all in the first place.

[PosPosPos]

You mean like Power Infusion used to be? I grasped that concept a long time ago, when I was putting it on mages.
I'm ok with my own cd being shareable . Not like I ever saw a resto druid casting it on anybody else - or I'm supposed to ask for those too?

So I don't get you at all, rdruids are obviously not mana hungry when they innervate themselves, but the fact is that it comes at the opportunity cost of not innervating someone who can use it to do more healing and save more mana. You claim you understand class mechanics that can be cast on other players, but you are here comparing rdruids with single innervate to disc with no innervate - let me tell you what pitfall you are falling into: the one which you make a false equivalency.

[Atharaxie]

Can this one thread about disc priest not turn into a troll fest of snarcky bickering, overexageration and semantic piss constest ?
It was a rather good read for 24h, let's keep it that way. Thanks in advance.

[Yunzi]

Can this one thread about disc priest not turn into a troll fest of snarcky bickering, overexageration and semantic piss constest ?
It was a rather good read for 24h, let's keep it that way. Thanks in advance.

Not to criticize your advice, but if you think THIS thread is a troll fest then my friend, you haven't been paying much attention to Disc Priest threads over the past year.

[Atharaxie]

[Out of Topic] On the contrary, I've been reading all the posts for 2 years. I've seen good contributors turning bitter and cynical, throwing snarky comments to genuine questions. I've seen three major contributors fed up to the core, leaving one after the other for better grounds. I've seen relapsing trolls being temp banned and coming back again and making this section worse for everyone. I've seen reasonable debates turned into namecalling no better than the finest hours of twitter.

And I would appreciate if that didn't happen to this post ; seeing the best exchange about Disc around here for weeks.
But I fear that it's already to late. Hoping I'm wrong.
[/Out of Topic]
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Is the smite mana cost really needed ? Every other healer can dps for free during low damage phase. (We still can PTW)
The argument that smite would provide free healing is debunktable by :
a) Atonement application alway has a cost
b) Smite damage is moderate, so the resulting healing/mana of lets say 3 atonement would be arguably low (and probably mostly overheal)
c) Smite absorb portion is negligible in raid