[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[stolker]

I'd take the new trinket chart with a grain of salt, I think it's using the default latest simcraft action priority list, which might be wrong in its usage of draught of souls (you can use it on CD, or wait until crusade CD is off, I don't know which is better, but I do know that simcraft obviously only uses one of the two methods, and APLs are one of the latest things updated before a big simcraft release in the nightlies, so they might not have gone over those yet).

also its single trinket sims (meaning without a second trinket), and obviously some of those trinkets have great synergy with CoF. a lot of the trinkets also have great synergy with AW relics (which are still at +23 ilvl) so their value might shift around depending on whether you have 0 or 3 AW relics, etc.

[cremor]

To add to the points from stolker, the SimulationCraft developers are not even sure if they implemented Draught of Souls correctly. Seems like there is a Blizzard bug that causes the cooldown for some people to be 1:20 minutes but for others 2:00 minutes. See https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3455

It's similar for Convergence of Fates. They are not sure about the currently implemented proc rate for Ret. See https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3456

[Vuagnon]

That retribution passive is a meaningless mechanic. We need more baseline damage instead of it.

[Deleted]

DoS nets around 2.2m on a dummie per use with 32% crit and 4% versa . Tbh I could see it working well with HoV

[Maylander]

I'm not convinced DoS is particularly strong for us in NH. It might be a good choice for Krosus, but that's about it, due to its ST nature. There is so much cleave, and so many adds, that we should really be looking into top cleaving and AoE trinkets, such as CotSS, CoF, EEF (essentially just a fancy stat stick). If the current CoF calculations are wrong, my money is on CotSS + either EEF or a plain stat stick being the way to go. Time will tell.

[Deleted]

Scorpion trinket is just medicore at max in aoe situations and low on single. Its DPS in sims is overestimated or wrongly calculated, did many heroic split boss fights and there were low but consistent dps results.

Got 880 DoS, with good rest of gear its quite bad trinket for ret with low ilvl. As for 904ilvl using 880 DoS proc on wings is a dps loss, starting to add some dps at highewr lvls.

Try to get CoF (any ilvl), it 100% will be your your best trinket in bags at least for Krosus Mythic.

[Ulthane]

Im actually curious about how CoF proc helps standard Avenging Wrath uptime if you were to take Holy Wrath or Divine Purpose instead of Crusade? Has anyone tested it? I know that CoF procs more for Avenging Wrath than Crusade but just curious of the outcome.

[Deleted]

Scorpion trinket is just medicore at max in aoe situations and low on single. Its DPS in sims is overestimated or wrongly calculated, did many heroic split boss fights and there were low but consistent dps results.

Got 880 DoS, with good rest of gear its quite bad trinket for ret with low ilvl. As for 904ilvl using 880 DoS proc on wings is a dps loss, starting to add some dps at highewr lvls.

Try to get CoF (any ilvl), it 100% will be your your best trinket in bags at least for Krosus Mythic.

CoSS is fairly solid for me. On single target the effect from an ilvl 895 one usually adds 1-3% damage, on top of the high base STR.
Definitely better than an ilvl 860 FCM, at ilvl 895.

One thing I did notice though, is that the little shockwave effect does not reach Krosus from melee range. So on that fight in particular the trinket is useless besides the mainstat boost.

[S3nsenmann]

Hi guys, perhaps you can help me.
I've started to optimise my character with simcraft and pawn. Now I got a ring of exclusive servitude warforged to 885 (Crit/Vers) + 150 vers enchanted, my old ring was an twice warped azshara signet, 870 (Haste/Crit) with haste enchantement.
Simcraft tells me the 885 is better, but when I import the string into pawn it always says the 870 is a 1% upgrade over the 885.
Did I do something wrong?

[Deleted]

Hi guys, perhaps you can help me.
I've started to optimise my character with simcraft and pawn. Now I got a ring of exclusive servitude warforged to 885 (Crit/Vers) + 150 vers enchanted, my old ring was an twice warped azshara signet, 870 (Haste/Crit) with haste enchantement.
Simcraft tells me the 885 is better, but when I import the string into pawn it always says the 870 is a 1% upgrade over the 885.
Did I do something wrong?

did you update your stat priorities with the pawn string of your simulation?
are you close to 15 20-22 or 30-32 % haste?

Most likely you just hit or surpassed a haste breakpoint in one or the other direction giving you wonky results with pawn.
pawn is great when you need a quick guide to what is an upgrade for you. Butr to figure it out exactly you will have to consult simcraft and trust in it.

[Sandraudiga]

I am finding trinkets quite the downer overall, we just don't seem to be getting the benefits that alot of other classes are getting.

For example a normal pug I did with a 893 warrior named Ryx, he was only in for Star Augur but his DoS did 39.05 million damage with 5 uses over the course of the fight. Was 16.46% of his damage, which was his second most damaging ability. Here is the log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&source=154

Some very rough napkin math of a pre-nerf CoF would have me using one more full crusade over the course of the 6:38 fight, which doesn't equal to an additional 39 million damage. If CoF was too powerful for us, how is DoS not too powerful for warriors?

[Deleted]

The sims are just mad, i mean, if we don't test and only sim, we got an skorpid trinket as usefull, when IS NOT usefull, like draugth of souls.

[Sandraudiga]

The sims are just mad, i mean, if we don't test and only sim, we got an skorpid trinket as usefull, when IS NOT usefull, like draugth of souls.

From the logs I've looked at the scorp trinket is doing between 1.2% and 2.8% of a rets dps on a fairly aoe heavy fight, which is on par with FCM on the same fight. Difference being the str from scorp is far better than the crit from FCM. Even on Star Augur the damage from the procs are fairly close. Overall I think Scorp is better, except for maybe Krosus which the scorp trinket doesn't seem to hit.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are both garbage though.

[dnicks17]

I am finding trinkets quite the downer overall, we just don't seem to be getting the benefits that alot of other classes are getting.

For example a normal pug I did with a 893 warrior named Ryx, he was only in for Star Augur but his DoS did 39.05 million damage with 5 uses over the course of the fight. Was 16.46% of his damage, which was his second most damaging ability. Here is the log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&source=154

Some very rough napkin math of a pre-nerf CoF would have me using one more full crusade over the course of the 6:38 fight, which doesn't equal to an additional 39 million damage. If CoF was too powerful for us, how is DoS not too powerful for warriors?

Warriors really need the same treatment as UH DKs for that trinket.

The warrior in my guild had it do close to 30% of his damage on some M Trilliax pulls last night.

[Deleted]

Warriors really need the same treatment as UH DKs for that trinket.

The warrior in my guild had it do close to 30% of his damage on some M Trilliax pulls last night.

anyone remember HFC? There it was fine and it now fine again but ONLY! for warriors ... but god beware it happens to the rets...

[Xenocidic]

I know this is over a year in the future, but I really am going to miss Divine Tempest if it isn't baked into the spec. I have already gotten used to throwing divine storms at mobs to pull them and using it to build crusade when stuck out of range of mobs for a few seconds.

[Deleted]

I am finding trinkets quite the downer overall, we just don't seem to be getting the benefits that alot of other classes are getting.

For example a normal pug I did with a 893 warrior named Ryx, he was only in for Star Augur but his DoS did 39.05 million damage with 5 uses over the course of the fight. Was 16.46% of his damage, which was his second most damaging ability. Here is the log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&source=154

Some very rough napkin math of a pre-nerf CoF would have me using one more full crusade over the course of the 6:38 fight, which doesn't equal to an additional 39 million damage. If CoF was too powerful for us, how is DoS not too powerful for warriors?

You will find that despite all, thats not a good place to be either. It's not a good feeling when your viability depends on one trinket. They are living the life now, but next tier?
I think it will get nerfed soon aswell.

I'm mostly disappointed with where our single target is atm. The crusade nerf only made sense if CoF had been buffed to 2rppm. We got short changed and our ST suffered the most because our cleave/aoe got massively buffed to the point where the nerf doesn't really hurt much.
But this may not be just because of the crusade, ES and CoF nerfs, but due to the buffs other classes had. Despite me hating ES, i can't help but feel like the ES nerf is now nonsensical and should be reverted. The real culprit, crusade is now nerfed, so it makes little sense for the ES nerf to go on top of it. But oh well... this might end up in an across the board single target buff, wich is better than depending on ES.

[Sandraudiga]

You will find that despite all, thats not a good place to be either. It's not a good feeling when your viability depends on one trinket. They are living the life now, but next tier?
I think it will get nerfed soon aswell.

I'm mostly disappointed with where our single target is atm. The crusade nerf only made sense if CoF had been buffed to 2rppm. We got short changed and our ST suffered the most because our cleave/aoe got massively buffed to the point where the nerf doesn't really hurt much.
But this may not be just because of the crusade, ES and CoF nerfs, but due to the buffs other classes had. Despite me hating ES, i can't help but feel like the ES nerf is now nonsensical and should be reverted. The real culprit, crusade is now nerfed, so it makes little sense for the ES nerf to go on top of it. But oh well... this might end up in an across the board single target buff, wich is better than depending on ES.

Next tier they will be fine, its very rare for some classes not to be near the top. It's the same story tier after tier, if certain classes aren't doing well they usually end up being buffed while other classes in a similar position don't. Warriors aren't quite like mages in that regard, but if you look back at the statistics from warcraft logs and world of logs you can see its extremely rare for warriors to not be in the top third overall.

Tbh I went into NH quite please as Ret seemed to be doing quite well. Not the top for any single fight, but overall performing well across the board. Now that more and more people are getting set bonuses and trinkets we've lagged behind quite significantly. Doesn't affect my raid spot as I am one of the strongest players in my team, but its depressing that they can't seem to get Ret right no matter how hard they try.

[dnicks17]

Tbh I went into NH quite please as Ret seemed to be doing quite well. Not the top for any single fight, but overall performing well across the board. Now that more and more people are getting set bonuses and trinkets we've lagged behind quite significantly. Doesn't affect my raid spot as I am one of the strongest players in my team, but its depressing that they can't seem to get Ret right no matter how hard they try.

I'm in the same boat.

According to logs, we're very close to the worst spec in mythic NH.

Feelsbadman.

[Deleted]

Told a dozen times already: Nothing has been done to fix the specc since August. The first plain damage buff came with a huge 4 set piece bonus nerf. Our good position that came with endless farming of vault++ and same bosses over and over for crusade prolonging relics was over when dps classes got their tier and ilcl rendered crusade centered gear irrelevant and on top of that the same problems remain.
Bad design all over