It seems that destro needs a buff for raiding

[Deleted]

It's so funny seeing that destro is the best performance-wise in pvp at the moment, while affliction is dead last.

I wonder if it's intentionally made that way so that pvp/pvers have to feel the annoyance and suffering of having to swap specs and put some more artifact power into that spec.

Blizzard loves warlock tears, confirmed.

Not sure that's really a thing with the 35+ traits turned off in pvp, it was easy enough to get all 3 specs up to 35 before maxing out AK, let alone after.

[HeroicMythic]

we shouldn't accept the actual state and be vocal about it. Another single target buff is needed.

[Baconeggcheese]

we shouldn't accept the actual state and be vocal about it. Another single target buff is needed.

I'd rather them make significant improvements to our aoe mechanics, our ST saw a decent amount of buffs in 7.1.5 and isn't too bad off.

[HeroicMythic]

Krosus:
2017-01-28 heroic out of top 200 available wl parses: affli: , demo: , destro: 15 ++ the 5th best destro is overall at position: 2289

Atleast the 5th best destro can summon 2288 other players to Krosus heroic

[Baconeggcheese]

Krosus:
2017-01-28 heroic out of top 200 available wl parses: affli: , demo: , destro: 15 ++ the 5th best destro is overall at position: 2289

Atleast the 5th best destro can summon 2288 other players to Krosus heroic

I mean, you can kill krosus heroic with people doing like 3-400k dps so... I dunno what your point is here?

I just killed mythic krosus this past week pulling 621k as destro with only 1 ST legendary, which is plenty for pulling my weight on that fight.

[Akropolis]

I mean, you can kill krosus heroic with people doing like 3-400k dps so... I dunno what your point is here?

I just killed mythic krosus this past week pulling 621k as destro with only 1 ST legendary, which is plenty for pulling my weight on that fight.

You also have the highest ilvl in the world.

[Baconeggcheese]

You also have the highest ilvl in the world.

That's news to me

Also we're talking about spec viability, so I'm not sure what your point is?

[HeroicMythic]

the 5th best destro is overall at position: 2289 when fighting HC Krosus.

What more evidence do you need that a single target buff is required?

[Deleted]

When you are ranking 95% and someone ranking 70% with same ilvl has a better dps (in overall, or 90% bracket vs 40% bracket if you prefer) it's normal to ask for a buff.

Spec viability confuse people because they are comparing their dps with other class.
If destru can reach the minimum dps requirement for krosus MM then it's viable.

But in a raid point of view, a viable raid needs more dps than the minimum requirement because someone may die.
So a destru lock who can't pull more dps than the minimum is not viable (but we are not the only spec).

I wouldn't mind pulling less dps if we had another something to compensate.
I felt that i was tanky before 7.1.5 and it was a big "plus" (like having around 50% of self heal on Cenarius).

Now with ELT + burning rush (many fight require movement speed ...) i don't feel that tanky.
life tap is around 10% / 20% of my dmg taken ... (went up to 52% for Etraeus Hm)

[Zandalariprelate]

I mean, you can kill krosus heroic with people doing like 3-400k dps so... I dunno what your point is here?

I just killed mythic krosus this past week pulling 621k as destro with only 1 ST legendary, which is plenty for pulling my weight on that fight.

How do you manage to do 621k? I dont even do 300k in destro with my 34 traits. But in demonology I do 400k

[Deleted]

You also have the highest ilvl in the world.

So you're asking for all specs to be balanced around all item levels or? What's the actual point of this comment. Chances are you don't reply as you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about....

[Baconeggcheese]

How do you manage to do 621k? I dont even do 300k in destro with my 34 traits. But in demonology I do 400k

I have 54 traits, feretory, 4p, and am likely significantly more geared than you.

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But in a raid point of view, a viable raid needs more dps than the minimum requirement because someone may die.
So a destru lock who can't pull more dps than the minimum is not viable (but we are not the only spec).

When you have a guild like method having a destro lock on literally every single one of their kills, it makes you wonder what other people are seeing that method isn't seeing. They had 2 destro locks on their first mythic krosus kill which was the 5th kill in the world, its hard to imagine they would do that if the spec "wasn't viable".

I don't really get the whole premise of pointing to the 1 mildly tight ST dps check of the tier which is the absolute worst situation for destro and then going LOOK! THE SPEC ISN'T VIABLE! completely ignoring people are playing it at the high end level and killing said boss with it.

[tratra]

I have 54 traits, feretory, 4p, and am likely significantly more geared than you.

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When you have a guild like method having a destro lock on literally every single one of their kills, it makes you wonder what other people are seeing that method isn't seeing. They had 2 destro locks on their first mythic krosus kill which was the 5th kill in the world, its hard to imagine they would do that if the spec "wasn't viable".

I don't really get the whole premise of pointing to the 1 mildly tight ST dps check of the tier which is the absolute worst situation for destro and then going LOOK! THE SPEC ISN'T VIABLE! completely ignoring people are playing it at the high end level and killing said boss with it.

Not everyone is verdisha in here. Obviously Method are going to use skilled players etc and won't bench them. The spec is doing hmm ok I'd say.

Although the more down you go in the rankings the more people are useless and know less about things and want to get carried. So a destro lock in a very average 500 guild might be asked to go aff or demo because... whatever.

[Deleted]

its hard to imagine they would do that if the spec "wasn't viable".

It's just a matter of point of view

From Method point of view, it is viable (and top guild in general).
To me, it is viable.
But without any ST legendary, i won't be able to help my guild reach the dps check as much as i want.

But what of other people ? What of an average player without any ST legendary ?
It was the same things for Guarm, will be the same things for the next dps check.

[Baconeggcheese]

Not everyone is verdisha in here. Obviously Method are going to use skilled players etc and won't bench them. The spec is doing hmm ok I'd say.

Those guilds require multiple alts, people frequently swap characters / specs to whatever's appropriate for a fight. If destro ST was as bad as people are claiming in this thread, those characters simply wouldn't be brought or they would swap specs.

Although the more down you go in the rankings the more people are useless and know less about things and want to get carried. So a destro lock in a very average 500 guild might be asked to go aff or demo because... whatever.

That's not an issue with the spec though, that's an issue with the guild / their players.

It was the same things for Guarm, will be the same things for the next dps check.

Guarm wasn't a dps check, guarm was a mechanics check. I think it took us 2 tries once we got through the last charge cleanly.

[clevin]

Destro is weak right now, but I think more and more that the real cause behind it is Wreak Havoc. If they buff ST too much they end up buffing 2 targets fights too much and make destro too op on these encounters.

Which is an easy problem to solve. "Wreak Havoc transfers X% of your damage on the primary target to the havoc'd target" where X is large enough that we still kick ass in pure 2 target fights but not so OP that it mean we have to have crap ST damage.

What I'd like to see them do is put a floor on how much mastery helps our spells. Right now it's 0 to Mastery%... make it something non-zero for a floor which would allow them to adjust that over time (perhaps with hotfixes depending on the code).

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Those guilds require multiple alts, people frequently swap characters / specs to whatever's appropriate for a fight. If destro ST was as bad as people are claiming in this thread, those characters simply wouldn't be brought or they would swap specs.

.

I think the question is more "what's the penalty for not playing perfectly?" How steep is the drop from, say, 99% players to 75% (before anyone calls 75% players scrubs remember that by definition they're in the top 25%). If the drop off is severe and it's less severe for, say, Affliction or for other ranged DPS then you'll see Destro talked about as weak because (again, by definition) most players aren't in the top 1-5%.

This has been an issue for various specs over the life of WoW - you don't want them to be massive OP when played at close to the skill cap but you also don't want them to only really be useful when played at or close to the cap... ideally, results decline smoothly. The best player in the world at a spec should get 100% of the potential of that spec, the 80% player should get out 80% as much DPS, etc.

[Baconeggcheese]

Which is an easy problem to solve. "Wreak Havoc transfers X% of your damage on the primary target to the havoc'd target" where X is large enough that we still kick ass in pure 2 target fights but not so OP that it mean we have to have crap ST damage.

What I'd like to see them do is put a floor on how much mastery helps our spells. Right now it's 0 to Mastery%... make it something non-zero for a floor which would allow them to adjust that over time (perhaps with hotfixes depending on the code).

I'm actually worried about the cry havoc trait, because that could very easily move us in the opposite direction where more dmg is attributed to havoc which would hurt CB on the primary target / ST.

[clevin]

I'm actually worried about the cry havoc trait, because that could very easily move us in the opposite direction where more dmg is attributed to havoc which would hurt CB on the primary target / ST.

Oh crap, really? Hadn't seen that...

[Baconeggcheese]

Oh crap, really? Hadn't seen that...

It makes your CB bounce from the primary target to the havoc target for (unknown)% amount of the CB's dmg. One person was speculating (hoping) that they were going to do something drastic like make CB not work with havoc and then that trait would effectively give a similar function to what you're talking about. But that would be a fairly huge change, so I wouldn't hold my breath there.

Unless they make a drastic change, it'll end up just giving more dmg priority to havoc. And the best we can hope for at that point is either the trait works ST or that the % is low enough that it doesn't hurt us too bad.

[Turturin the Warlock]

It makes your CB bounce from the primary target to the havoc target for (unknown)% amount of the CB's dmg. One person was speculating (hoping) that they were going to do something drastic like make CB not work with havoc and then that trait would effectively give a similar function to what you're talking about. But that would be a fairly huge change, so I wouldn't hold my breath there.

Unless they make a drastic change, it'll end up just giving more dmg priority to havoc. And the best we can hope for at that point is either the trait works ST or that the % is low enough that it doesn't hurt us too bad.

Cry Havoc was already removed in latest PTR build. We have no idea what our new trait will be at this point.