Could bringing back camels ‘rewild’ the American West?

[Kronik85]

You've misunderstood. He made a thread about teaching apes to make fire.

O_O;

At least it was Bonobos rather than Chimps. In saying that it's still a terrible terrible idea. Why do you hate us all so much Atethecat? T_T

[Techno-Druid]

Shh...you're spoiling the narrative.

I've watched Dances with Wolves, the native Americans were at one with nature and would never do anything like that.

Hey, I'm all for Indigenous rights and honoring historically marginalized peoples, but for all intends and purposes, the people who migrated to the Americas were no better than any other group outside of Africa dismantling Pleistocene ecosystems by overhunting megafauna.

He wants to teach apes to start the fires.

True. I'm not going to lie, there's very little rhyme or reason to actually uplift hominids, cetaceans and corvids, but hey, it would still cause less controversy in the media than Trump's presidency .

But hey, we're probably all a little bonkers, @Connal, @Yvaelle, @Theodarzna, but sometimes we have to be a little crazy to get stuff done.

[Yvaelle]

It's like nearly everyone in this thread has no idea how delicate ecological balance is and the dangers in introducing apex predators like big cats into North America...

North America has big cats, namely Cougars and Jaguars (mostly in Mexico). While Cougars are still doing alright in North America between the West Coast and the Rocky Mountains, they are considered extinct on the rest of the continent where once they were the most populous land mammals.

That has an effect on every stage of the food chain below, and while those effects can be beneficial for us in the short term ("Yay more deer/rabbits for us!") it is detrimental in the long-term (50+ years later: "Why is plant biodiversity crashing?").

So the big cat initiative isn't about introducing tigers and lions and leopards into North America, it's just about replenishing the vanishing population of North American cats that we have already lost - and are only now realizing the long-term effects. The same is true, it turns out, for every continent - the loss of lions in Africa, and leopards and tigers in Asia - are have the same negative effects the world over.

We already tinkered with the food chain by removing them, this initiative is about putting it back the way it was.

[Theodarzna]

Hey, I'm all for Indigenous rights and honoring historically marginalized peoples, but for all intends and purposes, the people who migrated to the Americas were no better than any other group outside of Africa dismantling Pleistocene ecosystems by overhunting megafauna.


True. I'm not going to lie, there's very little rhyme or reason to actually uplift hominids, cetaceans and corvids, but hey, it would still cause less controversy in the media than Trump's presidency .

But hey, we're probably all a little bonkers, @Connal, @Yvaelle, @Theodarzna, but sometimes we have to be a little crazy to get stuff done.

I wouldn't go for "Uplifting," other species to our level of intelligence.

I do think we will need to engineer new plant species and various types of atmospheric scrubbing organisms to help stabilize Earths Atmosphere or possible the self-contained atmospheres of space colonies.

[Techno-Druid]

I think if they actually want to be uplifted, or we uplift embryos, etc that would be pretty cool... something like Groot or Rocket Raccoon would be pretty neat....(well Rocket was forced and experimented on... I meant more if he was already enhanced and uplifted in the womb, etc)

I would agree with you that uplift of an already live animal has to be consensual albeit exactly what consent is to a bonobo or dolphin and how we interpret it matter a lot.

Honestly, it would probably be a good idea to have some system of regulations that allows for genetic engineering on the scale of uplifting or creating an entirely new species of organism. There should honestly never be a point in time where people play around with CRISPR like some expensive toy, but we also should allow for advancement and general use of gene editing tech for public use.

Very...difficult questions...

[Independent voter]

[Kronik85]

I would agree with you that uplift of an already live animal has to be consensual albeit exactly what consent is to a bonobo or dolphin and how we interpret it matter a lot.

They let you put your ooka in their dooka? From my understanding of Bonobos they are quite keen on this sort of thing.

Honestly, it would probably be a good idea to have some system of regulations that allows for genetic engineering on the scale of uplifting or creating an entirely new species of organism. There should honestly never be a point in time where people play around with CRISPR like some expensive toy, but we also should allow for advancement and general use of gene editing tech for public use.

Very...difficult questions...

What Theo is suggesting seems useful, tinkering with animals however seems like inviting disaster for very little gain beyond novelty.

[Belize]

Let's bring back Velociraptors. Those are cool.

[Kronik85]

Let's bring back Velociraptors. Those are cool.

I think you mean Utahraptors unless you want a dinosaur that was about the size of a turkey. If I get a choice between the two though then it's the Velociraptor that gets my vote because that seems less deadly.

[Belize]

I think you mean Utahraptors unless you want a dinosaur that was about the size of a turkey. If I get a choice between the two though then it's the Velociraptor that gets my vote because that seems less deadly.

PLUS! If they're the size of a turkey, they can be kept as pets more easily! Win-win.

Also, Utahraptors sounds like a terrible Mormon metal band.

[Kalis]

Hey, I'm all for Indigenous rights and honoring historically marginalized peoples, but for all intends and purposes, the people who migrated to the Americas were no better than any other group outside of Africa dismantling Pleistocene ecosystems by overhunting megafauna.

I know they weren't better, I was mocking the perception that native American peoples were better. It is 'noble savage' mythologising.

True. I'm not going to lie, there's very little rhyme or reason to actually uplift hominids, cetaceans and corvids, but hey, it would still cause less controversy in the media than Trump's presidency .

Teaching fauna arson is likely to be one of things that could knock Trump out of the headlines.

We should not be attempting to uplift anything, we can't even deal with the different demands of humans, let alone the needs of creatures that think entirely differently to how we do.

And crows? Seriously? They're meat eating descendants of dinosaurs!

[Techno-Druid]

I think you mean Utahraptors unless you want a dinosaur that was about the size of a turkey. If I get a choice between the two though then it's the Velociraptor that gets my vote because that seems less deadly.

We'll probably never bring back dinosaurs, but Jack Horner, one of the best known archeologists and dinosaur experts did propose "turning on" dormant genes in a chicken that could give it a longer tail, more archaic saurian-like wings and teeth. A chickenosaurus if you will...

[Kronik85]

Also, Utahraptors sounds like a terrible Mormon metal band.

^^

Well actually they describe themselves as subversive post rock jazz funk collective but yes, definitely chose the wrong genre.

- - - Updated - - -

We'll probably never bring back dinosaurs, but Jack Horner, one of the best known archeologists and dinosaur experts did propose "turning on" dormant genes in a chicken that could give it a longer tail, more archaic saurian-like wings and teeth. A chickenosaurus if you will...

Will the wings be more delicious? Because if so he might be onto something. I won't outright dismiss chickenosaurus tail but I don't think it will be a culinary sensation, still that's what people thought about wings until they invented hot sauce so you know.....you get one go at it Jack and it better be delicious or this conversation is over!

[Kalis]

Will the wings be more delicious? Because if so he might be onto something. I won't outright dismiss chickenosaurus tail but I don't think it will be a culinary sensation, still that's what people thought about wings until they invented hot sauce so you know.....you get one go at it Jack and it better be delicious or this conversation is over!

Chickens aren't just for eating their bodyparts!

#CluckLivesMatter #EggsAreDeliciousToo

[callipygoustp]

Some of my fondest childhood memories are of watching the huge majestic herds of camels roaming around the plains of America. The herds have been gone for too long. Yes, please bring them back and bring them back as quick as possible!

[Kronik85]

Chickens aren't just for eating their bodyparts!

#CluckLivesMatter #EggsAreDeliciousToo

In this Kalis I'm afraid you're wrong....not about the eggs, they are lovely but if it's not being kept as a pet or to stare at in it's own majesty then any animals value to me is determined by how much of it is worth eating. Chickens are about 75% delicious, not going to eat the beak, the feet or the head and breast meat is meh but as to the rest of it then well, it sucks to be a chicken.

[Kalis]

In this Kalis I'm afraid you're wrong....not about the eggs, they are lovely but if it's not being kept as a pet or to stare at in it's own majesty then any animals value to me is determined by how much of it is worth eating. Chickens are about 75% delicious, not going to eat the beak, the feet or the head and breast meat is meh but as to the rest of it then well, it sucks to be a chicken.

Chickens are ducks for poor people.

[Celista]

North America has big cats, namely Cougars and Jaguars (mostly in Mexico). While Cougars are still doing alright in North America between the West Coast and the Rocky Mountains, they are considered extinct on the rest of the continent where once they were the most populous land mammals.

That has an effect on every stage of the food chain below, and while those effects can be beneficial for us in the short term ("Yay more deer/rabbits for us!") it is detrimental in the long-term (50+ years later: "Why is plant biodiversity crashing?").

So the big cat initiative isn't about introducing tigers and lions and leopards into North America, it's just about replenishing the vanishing population of North American cats that we have already lost - and are only now realizing the long-term effects. The same is true, it turns out, for every continent - the loss of lions in Africa, and leopards and tigers in Asia - are have the same negative effects the world over.

We already tinkered with the food chain by removing them, this initiative is about putting it back the way it was.

I see. When I think of "big cats" I think of tigers/lions/ligers, so that is what was in mind with my reply.

I understand the love of big cats, and while ecosystem balance should be the primary concern, it is a delicate balance with introducing/re-introducing apex predators because overpopulation can decimate species' populations further down the food chain.

On a personal level, I like living in a part of the country where I do not have to worry about many predators when hiking or camping. I think people are disconnected from what it's like to live near predators....worrying about your cat or small dog being picked up by a bald eagle, etc...

[Kronik85]

Chickens are ducks for poor people.

I wouldn't make a like for like comparison between duck and chicken but duck eggs soundly thrash chicken eggs. Chickenosaur eggs though....well that's gotta be worth a try. I think your turning me round on this whole "lets usher in our doom by fucking with the genetics of animals" issue though, when I imagine them on my plate rather than chasing me across the ruins of England then they seem a whole lot less scary and infinitely more tasty.

[Techno-Druid]

I wouldn't make a like for like comparison between duck and chicken but duck eggs soundly thrash chicken eggs. Chickenosaur eggs though....well that's gotta be worth a try. I think your turning me round on this whole "lets usher in our doom by fucking with the genetics of animals" issue though, when I imagine them on my plate rather than chasing me across the ruins of England then they seem a whole lot less scary and infinitely more tasty.

Well it would ultimately be just a chicken with claws, teeth and a tail. Not exactly deinonychus. Although it would be interesting to see how a chickenosaurus would adapt to having these traits.