[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[xpyre]

Looking at SimC numbers for ret on patchwerk and I'm a little confused.
They show execution sentence as top, got it, I understand that and FV are closer in numbers.
Next they have zeal, why? Doesn't that only come out on top for multiple targets?
Finally, they have fist of Justice talent. Wouldn't it make sense to use blinding light for the damage compared to fist for none?

[Deleted]

Barely noticeable!! is a fair stretch.

I certainly is hard to notice in the HC NH rankings, since we only dropped 3-4 ranks.

[Deleted]

I certainly is hard to notice in the HC NH rankings, since we only dropped 3-4 ranks.

Heroic holds little value. It's mythic that's highly tuned. Couldnt care less if i was crap in heroic if i was top tier in mythic. It's a matter of scaling and balance. The game needs to be balanced towards mythic because thats where the numbers matter most.

So, posts of people saying the Ret on their run of the mill normal or heroic guild are top are completely irrelevant. Especially because of the Retribution passive.

[Deleted]

me still dont understand the reasoning 4 crusade nerf: 2 psychologically buff (all-time btw) underperforming DP (even SW was better option, due 2 unpredictability of procs) bzzd nerfed the single viable option?

this "slight" decrease is 8% (cape/ring, 3x crusade relics):

bzzd failed, DP is still subpar.
is me supposed 2 feel happy now, cuz the only viable option isnt nerfed to the ground (again)?

BTW - what about HW?
HW could have been a gamechanger if combined with auto-bubble?
rets just love "to save the day" 4 the raid...

DP is rets running gag... no nerf is going to change that, but maybe a buff 2 like 5-7 ppm?
cuz obviously bzzd doesnt like esp. crusade (7.1 redesign)/ret burst: if Nemesis/Meta/CB isnt overkill u r not skill-capping. combustion?
y removal of HA?
maybe iam paranoid (due to all those tranqz cuz nerfs hurt, 8%, u ever lost 8% of ur muscle mass?), cuz i just dont understand the reasoning.

but thats what marketing is 4, right: class design?

[Redblade]

No we're not underperforming. Underperforming specs are not taken into mythic race.

We are, not by a huge margin but still underperforming...unless you have cloak and belt, but we shouldn't have to have them according to Blizz.

I agree that crusade nerf was not needed, but it was so small that it is barely noticeable and it didn't change the fact that we are in really good spot right now.

It really is noticeable, if you have cloak/belt/ring then it might not be as obvious but if you don't it made a difference.

[Rayvhen]

I know that the trinket question has been beaten to death but I was curious if simcraft is simming the use of on use trinkets with crusade or if it's just an approximation of the trinkets potential dps increase. More specifically I have a 840 FCM and just got an 870 horn. Horn sims higher but in practice my dps burst seems lower. Just curious if any of you knowledgeable folk had some input. Thanks

[Vuagnon]

Man.. I'm falling behind like 100 k damage from other melee with same ilvl in spellblade in heroic despite having retribution uptime. I'm not doing major mistakes btw. The difference shouldn't be this much.

[dnicks17]

Looking at my guild's M Trilliax kill is depressing.

Apparently Crusade was too strong, but it's alright for a WW and DH to spike to 2.1M and 1.9M DPS, respectively, during opener.

[Ryuji]

Looking at my guild's M Trilliax kill is depressing.

Apparently Crusade was too strong, but it's alright for a WW and DH to spike to 2.1M and 1.9M DPS, respectively, during opener.

Do both of them have CoF? Just curious. WW says CoF not BiS but then again, the shenanigans with Serenity could make it super strong I'd guess.

[dnicks17]

Do both of them have CoF? Just curious. WW says CoF not BiS but then again, the shenanigans with Serenity could make it super strong I'd guess.

The WW has it, but doesn't use it.

[Ryuji]

The WW has it, but doesn't use it.

Ah I take it they have draught and arcanogolem then. Been looking around and comparing the strength of trinkets on Ret vs. other melee specs. Fury, WW and DH are doing insane numbers, just doesn't feel right for Blizzard to have nerfed CoF so hard literally 24 hours after NH normal and heroic came out, so less than 5% of Ret paladins likely had the thing.

[dnicks17]

Ah I take it they have draught and arcanogolem then. Been looking around and comparing the strength of trinkets on Ret vs. other melee specs. Fury, WW and DH are doing insane numbers, just doesn't feel right for Blizzard to have nerfed CoF so hard literally 24 hours after NH normal and heroic came out, so less than 5% of Ret paladins likely had the thing.

Draught and an 885 Memento, I think.

[Maylander]

Looking at SimC numbers for ret on patchwerk and I'm a little confused.
They show execution sentence as top, got it, I understand that and FV are closer in numbers.
Next they have zeal, why? Doesn't that only come out on top for multiple targets?
Finally, they have fist of Justice talent. Wouldn't it make sense to use blinding light for the damage compared to fist for none?

Actually, if you look at the numbers of Zeal and compare it with CS, you'll see that Zeal actually hits significantly harder even on a single target. It's not just a multi-target buff; the base damage is also higher. Zeal is basically the go-to talent unless you have the legendary cloak, at which point getting extra TVs is worth the loss-per-hit that CS represents.

[Calimon-ZJ]

Actually, if you look at the numbers of Zeal and compare it with CS, you'll see that Zeal actually hits significantly harder even on a single target. It's not just a multi-target buff; the base damage is also higher. Zeal is basically the go-to talent unless you have the legendary cloak, at which point getting extra TVs is worth the loss-per-hit that CS represents.

I have the cloak and will likely be using zeal once I get 4pc.

[Svetyac]

Does the lege trinket benefit from Crusade dmg buff?

[xpyre]

Actually, if you look at the numbers of Zeal and compare it with CS, you'll see that Zeal actually hits significantly harder even on a single target. It's not just a multi-target buff; the base damage is also higher. Zeal is basically the go-to talent unless you have the legendary cloak, at which point getting extra TVs is worth the loss-per-hit that CS represents.

Oh, well I thought C'S was the go to, guess I'll have to try out zeal.

[Redblade]

Oh, well I thought C'S was the go to, guess I'll have to try out zeal.

The real answer is "It depends", you need to sim your char to see what's best. For me it's still TFoJ for ST.

[Snowfunk]

Does the lege trinket benefit from Crusade dmg buff?

Kil'jaeden trinket does not scale with ANY SECONDARY SOURCES.
No damage increases, no masteries will affect it. It will always do the flat tooltip damage.

[Montanahax]

Kil'jaeden trinket does not scale with ANY SECONDARY SOURCES.
No damage increases, no masteries will affect it. It will always do the flat tooltip damage.

It hits for 1.4 mill on my demonhunter when nemesis and chaos blade are up. So it should also scale with wings

[Deleted]

It hits for 1.4 mill on my demonhunter when nemesis and chaos blade are up. So it should also scale with wings

The Kil'jaeden trinket initially scaled with all damage multipliers. Than it got nerfed to do X damage, always crit AND do the same damage regardless of wings or not. Then the X damage got buffed (around 40% was it?) but still unaffected by wings.

I reported this on the PTR, since as you say, other classes were able to boost its damage. No change. So it's either bugged for Ret, or working as intented.

TL;DR - Not affected by wings.