Ukraine Crisis Escalating - Shooting War in Donbass

[Sliske]

Thanks to this thread im now fully indoctrinated into the latest dogma.

Trump is bad. Putin phone Trump. Putin and Trump agree to invade Ukraine. Putin has dirt on Trump. Trump is a russian plant.

Hows my chanting voice? Is it cultist enough?

[Triks]

[QUOTE=caervek;44428531]Maybe helping train the Eastern Ukrainians fighting there? If Russia wanted Eastern Ukraine they could take it, but they chose not to when requested to do so by Eastern Ukraine, I think that's a pretty solid confirmation they have no interest in doing so. [QUOTE]

And why exactly are Russians supporting Ukrainian separatists? If Russia withdraws, this thing will be over in 6 months.

Why would it need defending? O.o

Right. Tomorrow I will "peacefully occupy" Wales, demilitarise the region and make a referendum for Wales to leave the UK and you will vote with a majority. SUCH DEMOCRACY!

Oh god please don't tell me you're one of those who only know stuff about Crimea that they saw on TV or something. Read one of the previous threads if you need info on it as this has been well covered.

I find it funny how someone who lives in Wales and knows nothing about the region, nothing about Eastern Europe and nothing about us as people is running his mouth. Много е забавно да си дървен философ, нали?

[Ethas]

Thanks to this thread im now fully indoctrinated into the latest dogma.

Trump is bad. Putin phone Trump. Putin and Trump agree to invade Ukraine. Putin has dirt on Trump. Trump is a russian plant.

Hows my chanting voice? Is it cultist enough?

You forgot to mention that Putin is devil.

[Skulltaker]

If Russia doesn't have Donbass, why are there Russian irregulars there or are you going to try to play semantics? If you are going to defend the "democratic" referendum in Crimea, please stop.

Haven't followed the whole topic for a while now. Is there some proof, this time, that there are 'russian irregulars' in the Ukraine? Or is it the same made up bs like last time?
Also, I find people who dismiss valid arguments with stupid phrases like 'please stop' without adressing them als both obnixious and highly irritating, as if only their opinion is valid.

[Triks]

Because we won't allow another possible european hitler have borders with us. The WW2 was initiated by europe. Russia won't make this mistake twice.

Also, Crimea referendum was far more democratic and legit than US pathetic voting system. Reading some shitty liberal media is not the same as to actually be here and talk to real people.

Yeah man, Russia is always in the right! Like in Georgia. Keep your mitts off Ukraine.

[Ethas]

Yeah man, Russia is always in the right! Like in Georgia. Keep your mitts off Ukraine.

I suggest you to read an official UN paper on Georgia case. Seriously, kid, you are so uninformed, this is actually very entertaining.

[caervek]

Right. Tomorrow I will "peacefully occupy" Wales, demilitarise the region and make a referendum for Wales to leave the UK and you will vote with a majority. SUCH DEMOCRACY!

The flaw in the analogy is, Wales wasn't unlawfully handed to the UK against it's will, wasn't militarily occupied last time it tried to leave, and hasn't spent 20 years trying to get out from UK control.

Crimea was unlawfully handed to Ukraine against it's will (in what was then a symbolic gesture as Crimea/Russia/Ukraine were all part of the USSR).
Crimea was militarily occupied by Ukraine last time it tried to leave (in 1995 when Ukraine took over Crimea, disbanded it's government and tore up it's constitution).
Crimea did spend the last 20 years protesting/demonstrating against Ukranian occupation, and showed in repeated referendums that it wished to rejoin Russia.

At the end of the day, the important thing is that the people of Crimea are happy and finally free. And as long as the people in question are happy it doesn't really matter what Ukraine or Russia think about it.

[Triks]

Haven't followed the whole topic for a while now. Is there some proof, this time, that there are 'russian irregulars' in the Ukraine? Or is it the same made up bs like last time?
Also, I find people who dismiss valid arguments with stupid phrases like 'please stop' without adressing them als both obnixious and highly irritating, as if only their opinion is valid.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-spec...15-5?r=US&IR=T

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-spec...15-5?r=US&IR=T

Man, seriously, youre gonna link business insider as your proof, even when the article itself states:
"who according to Ukraine's state security service (SBU) is named Alexander Alexandrov and is one of two Russian servicemen recently detained by Ukrainian forces"

[Uzkin]

I am glad you admit that your tzar is a land-grabber. When he goes on vacation to the Baltics what would you say then?

"Land-grabbing" is a disingenuous term to use here; Russia accepted Crimea's request to rejoin Russia. A perfectly acceptable thing to do following an illegal ousting of a democratically elected president. Crimea didn't have any obligations towards the coup-elected illegitimate Kiev "leadership" but were free to decide for themselves.

Yes - a meltdown that YOU caused.

The "meltdown" wasn't caused by them, but by the maidanite coup (supported by the western governments). That's what started it all; without it Ukraine would have been fine. Even post-coup they would've been fine if they had admitted their crime and agreed (as a punishment to their crimes) to a compromise.

The maidan rebellion and the West backing them, and the inability of the West/Kiev to take responsibility for their crimes, are directly responsible for the Ukrainian civil war, deaths, economic damage, loss of Crimea... all of it.

[Sliske]

You forgot to mention that Putin is devil.

I thought that was Trump? Wasn't Putin the one that was pee'd on by hookers?

Shit, now im confused. My i'm mixing my lies up with my assertions. Give me a sec.

[Triks]

I suggest you to read an official UN paper on Georgia case. Seriously, kid, you are so uninformed, this is actually very entertaining.

I suggest you keep your forces out of Ukraine. Fair deal?

The flaw in the analogy is, Wales wasn't handed to the UK against it's will, wasn't militarily occupied last time it tried to leave, and hasn't spent 20 years trying to get out from UK control.

Crimea was handed to Ukraine against it's will (in what was then a symbolic gesture as Crimea/Russia/Ukraine were all part of the USSR).
Crimea was militarily occupied by Ukraine last time it tried to leave (in 1995 when Ukraine took over Crimea, disbanded it's government and tore up it's constitution).
Crimea did spend the last 20 years protesting/demonstrating against Ukranian occupation, and showed in repeated referendums that it wished to rejoin Russia.

You said it yourself - Crimea was handed over.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, seriously, youre gonna link business insider as your proof, even when the article itself states:
"who according to Ukraine's state security service (SBU) is named Alexander Alexandrov and is one of two Russian servicemen recently detained by Ukrainian forces"

Is this better?

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-war-in-europe

[Shalcker]

You install a puppet government. Oh wait, that failed.

We don't really do "puppet governments" - we have neither skill nor tradition to do it, unlike US or Britain/France.

Stop assuming that everyone would act exactly like you in some situation - that is what is getting West into mess everywhere... "They did this thing differently then we expected, but everything else will be exactly as we expect!", yeah, right.

[Triks]

"Land-grabbing" is a disingenuous term to use here; Russia accepted Crimea's request to rejoin Russia. A perfectly acceptable thing to do following an illegal ousting of a democratically elected president. Crimea didn't have any obligations towards the coup-elected illegitimate Kiev "leadership" but were free to decide for themselves.


The "meltdown" wasn't caused by them, but by the maidanite coup (supported by the western governments). That's what started it all; without it Ukraine would have been fine. Even post-coup they would've been fine if they had admitted their crime and agreed (as a punishment to their crimes) to a compromise.

The maidan rebellion and the West backing them, and the inability of the West/Kiev to take responsibility for their crimes, are directly responsible for the Ukrainian civil war, deaths, economic damage, loss of Crimea... all of it.

Yes - it's Ukraine's fault for wanting closer ties with the West. How DARE they decide their own fate.

I am off - enjoy your Roubles.

[Flarelaine]

We all spit on your western values.

Romania, my country

Pffft, should have known.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Yes - it's Ukraine's fault for wanting closer ties with the West. How DARE they decide their own fate.

I am off - enjoy your Roubles.

I mean, yeah, closer ties to the west are all guchi and stuff, but if Ukraine decides to not continue its commercial/business deals with russia, why would they expect to continue getting gas at really cheap prices from Russia? or why would they expect Russia to forgive them their massive debt?

[Uzkin]

Yes - it's Ukraine's fault for wanting closer ties with the West. How DARE they decide their own fate.

I am off - enjoy your Roubles.

The issue was that a part of Ukraine wanted closer ties with the West and tried to achieve it by taking illegal actions. Thus committing a crime against the other part of Ukraine.

"Enjoy my roubles"? I don't have any roubles, are you delusional?

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

"Enjoy my roubles"? I don't have any roubles, are you delusional?

Incoming joke from someone about how you dont have roubles cos the russian economy is crumbling

[Uzkin]

Incoming joke from someone about how you dont have roubles cos the russian economy is crumbling

Luckily I have plenty of euros. Although markka would be better in many ways.

[Flarelaine]

The flaw in the analogy is, Wales wasn't unlawfully handed to the UK against it's will, wasn't militarily occupied last time it tried to leave, and hasn't spent 20 years trying to get out from UK control.

The last bit is true. Wales spent a whole lot more. Incidentally, I did some coursework on Owain Glyndŵr back at university so don't tell me Wales just bent down and took it after the conquest.