Thanks to this thread im now fully indoctrinated into the latest dogma.
Trump is bad. Putin phone Trump. Putin and Trump agree to invade Ukraine. Putin has dirt on Trump. Trump is a russian plant.
Hows my chanting voice? Is it cultist enough?
Thanks to this thread im now fully indoctrinated into the latest dogma.
Trump is bad. Putin phone Trump. Putin and Trump agree to invade Ukraine. Putin has dirt on Trump. Trump is a russian plant.
Hows my chanting voice? Is it cultist enough?
[QUOTE=caervek;44428531]Maybe helping train the Eastern Ukrainians fighting there? If Russia wanted Eastern Ukraine they could take it, but they chose not to when requested to do so by Eastern Ukraine, I think that's a pretty solid confirmation they have no interest in doing so. [QUOTE]
And why exactly are Russians supporting Ukrainian separatists? If Russia withdraws, this thing will be over in 6 months.
Right. Tomorrow I will "peacefully occupy" Wales, demilitarise the region and make a referendum for Wales to leave the UK and you will vote with a majority. SUCH DEMOCRACY!Why would it need defending? O.o
I find it funny how someone who lives in Wales and knows nothing about the region, nothing about Eastern Europe and nothing about us as people is running his mouth. Много е забавно да си дървен философ, нали?Oh god please don't tell me you're one of those who only know stuff about Crimea that they saw on TV or something. Read one of the previous threads if you need info on it as this has been well covered.
Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.
Haven't followed the whole topic for a while now. Is there some proof, this time, that there are 'russian irregulars' in the Ukraine? Or is it the same made up bs like last time?
Also, I find people who dismiss valid arguments with stupid phrases like 'please stop' without adressing them als both obnixious and highly irritating, as if only their opinion is valid.
The flaw in the analogy is, Wales wasn't unlawfully handed to the UK against it's will, wasn't militarily occupied last time it tried to leave, and hasn't spent 20 years trying to get out from UK control.
Crimea was unlawfully handed to Ukraine against it's will (in what was then a symbolic gesture as Crimea/Russia/Ukraine were all part of the USSR).
Crimea was militarily occupied by Ukraine last time it tried to leave (in 1995 when Ukraine took over Crimea, disbanded it's government and tore up it's constitution).
Crimea did spend the last 20 years protesting/demonstrating against Ukranian occupation, and showed in repeated referendums that it wished to rejoin Russia.
At the end of the day, the important thing is that the people of Crimea are happy and finally free. And as long as the people in question are happy it doesn't really matter what Ukraine or Russia think about it.
Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.
"Land-grabbing" is a disingenuous term to use here; Russia accepted Crimea's request to rejoin Russia. A perfectly acceptable thing to do following an illegal ousting of a democratically elected president. Crimea didn't have any obligations towards the coup-elected illegitimate Kiev "leadership" but were free to decide for themselves.
The "meltdown" wasn't caused by them, but by the maidanite coup (supported by the western governments). That's what started it all; without it Ukraine would have been fine. Even post-coup they would've been fine if they had admitted their crime and agreed (as a punishment to their crimes) to a compromise.
The maidan rebellion and the West backing them, and the inability of the West/Kiev to take responsibility for their crimes, are directly responsible for the Ukrainian civil war, deaths, economic damage, loss of Crimea... all of it.
I suggest you keep your forces out of Ukraine. Fair deal?
You said it yourself - Crimea was handed over.The flaw in the analogy is, Wales wasn't handed to the UK against it's will, wasn't militarily occupied last time it tried to leave, and hasn't spent 20 years trying to get out from UK control.
Crimea was handed to Ukraine against it's will (in what was then a symbolic gesture as Crimea/Russia/Ukraine were all part of the USSR).
Crimea was militarily occupied by Ukraine last time it tried to leave (in 1995 when Ukraine took over Crimea, disbanded it's government and tore up it's constitution).
Crimea did spend the last 20 years protesting/demonstrating against Ukranian occupation, and showed in repeated referendums that it wished to rejoin Russia.
- - - Updated - - -
Is this better?
http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-war-in-europe
Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.
We don't really do "puppet governments" - we have neither skill nor tradition to do it, unlike US or Britain/France.
Stop assuming that everyone would act exactly like you in some situation - that is what is getting West into mess everywhere... "They did this thing differently then we expected, but everything else will be exactly as we expect!", yeah, right.
I mean, yeah, closer ties to the west are all guchi and stuff, but if Ukraine decides to not continue its commercial/business deals with russia, why would they expect to continue getting gas at really cheap prices from Russia? or why would they expect Russia to forgive them their massive debt?
The last bit is true. Wales spent a whole lot more. Incidentally, I did some coursework on Owain Glyndŵr back at university so don't tell me Wales just bent down and took it after the conquest.
Last edited by Flarelaine; 2017-02-02 at 09:19 AM. Reason: added link