UK MP's overwhelmingly back article 50 bill

[Deleted]

I completely disagree.

If MPs are not supposed to exercise their judgement then fire them all and have the population vote directly on everything.

Yeah we did that and got Brexit, not really wanting to do it again anytime soon.

[Flarelaine]

/giggle

England and Wales leave the UK, leaving Northern Ireland and Scotland as the united kingdom and staying member of the EU.

Is this even possible?!

I believe that if Westminster votes for it, then it is. The UK as such was created by Acts of Parliament so they should have the legal authority to undo it as well. From the EU's viewpoint, it would be internal and Scotland + NI would simply keep the UK membership.

It is not going to happen, of course - too many Royal Navy facilities in Scotland, for one thing.

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A few weeks to Frexit. Today Marine Le Pen on the rise, vive la France.

France is not first past the post, though. Le Pen will make it to the second round, sure, but I don't see her secondary voters.

[Mehrunes]

31st of March? So more than 3/4th of a year since the referendum? Yeah, nice to see UK needs this long to sort out their shit because they actually go through with their clusterfuck. Oh, well, I guess it doesn't reflect on UK's bestest-in-the-whole-world diplomatic capabilities I've heard so much from UK nationalists in previous Brexit threads and UK will hold all the power in the proper negotiations regardless

At least Brexit means that we can debate our laws in our Parliament where your SNP MP's will get a say. Which is more than we got out of the EU.

Because UK's MEPs are muzzled whenever they enter the European Parliament building, or...?

We can argue to the moon and back about it but an independent Scotland would never get let in to the EU.

And yet countries from Yugoslavia's dissolution got accepted. Even Montenegro, which broke free in a referendum more recently than the rest has started the accession process over a decade ago.

[Deleted]

Well it would be voting against the known interest of the people, something that is highly undemocratic. If it was just a parliament vote to leave or stay in the EU, sure vote how you feel.

The MP represent specific areas though, not the people as a whole. What if the places that voted them in voted against Brexit?

In the UK MPs are elected to act on their best judgement, you elect a person who you think will be able to make the correct call when a vote comes up. MPs have no obligation to vote for or against anything just because that is what the population wants, in their constituency or otherwise.

[dribbles]

France is not first past the post, though. Le Pen will make it to the second round, sure, but I don't see her secondary voters.

Soon we will see, but the only people who say Le Pen can't win are those who said the UK will never vote for Brexit, and Trump will never be President. I can't see the French being ready for the allegedly homo/bisexual Emmanuel Macron.

[Mehrunes]

Well there are a number of politicians who either back tracked in full or partially, like in austria where they want to leave the EU (depending on the week of the month you´re asking) but keep the euro.

It would be possible actually.

[Mayhem]

A few weeks to Frexit. Today Marine Le Pen on the rise, vive la France.

If your time it takes you for brexit is any indication, the french will leave the union even if le pen wins probably in 2048 or so.

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It would be possible actually.

I couldn´t find anything on that matter, even if it´s possible, where is the sense in that?

[Flarelaine]

Soon we will see, but the only people who say Le Pen can't win are those who said the UK will never vote for Brexit, and Trump will never be President. I can't see the French being ready for the allegedly homo/bisexual Emmanuel Macron.

I'm not saying she cannot win, just that this is different. The Anglo-Saxon votes were single events, one with the most wins, case closed. The French will (likely) have a runoff vote and you can bet everyone will come out in full force against Le Pen. And like I said, I do not see secondary voters. Anyone willing to vote for her already does so in the first round, I believe.

[Thrive]

So that's it, unless something huge happens Britain is out of the EU?

It was pretty much it when the EU said they were going to force the pound out by 2020. This was the inevitable conclusion.

[Deleted]

It was pretty much it when the EU said they were going to force the pound out by 2020. This was the inevitable conclusion.

Were the EU actually going to try and make the UK give up the pound? Even if we voted to remain, that would never happen.

[Deleted]

Were the EU actually going to try and make the UK give up the pound? Even if we voted to remain, that would never happen.

They would, and the reason behind it actually isn't that bad. A lot of money is wasted in currency exchange and transfer when you deal in different currencies, and it is actually something that costs the EU nations a lot of money, every single year. There is also parts of the trade laws that makes non euros in the EU market a nightmare of bureaucracy. And the list really goes on with how much of a pain in the ass that the different currencies exists within the market.

I think the UK lost something close to half a billion pounds in the EU market a year, because they kept the pound. Same for my own nation that still holds the Crowns as our currency.

It of course has a big negative in that currency manipulation is impossible while under the euro.

With all of that said, it isn't set in stone and the UK could likely have skipped on it.

[Thrive]

Were the EU actually going to try and make the UK give up the pound? Even if we voted to remain, that would never happen.

By 2020 all EU member states were going to be required to use the Euro. Britain would obviously never do that. It's why Farage was so certain that the leave party would eventually leave, he just didn't expect it this early.

[Deleted]

Its one rule for you, and one rule for us, "No means No" oh look at that a 55% split and we lose independence, fine thats democracy in action. But our vote literally doesnt matter in Brexit, my voice is worthless, you must understand how that feels.

Whether you like it or not, Scotland isnt to the UK what Newcastle is to Liverpool etc, we are a different country with different laws, values, cultures and feelings. And the UK is just doing exactly what they are complaining about the EU doing to them.

Trident exists in my freaking back garden, in a place where if anything were to ever go wrong (which it does, periodically) then my whole nation, my culture, everything I love would be gone instantly. A thing that none of us want at all, but is officially too dangerous to relocate down south, as if our lives are worth less.

We get dragged into every war the UK wages, every war we have taken a stand and said no to, every dead fucking Scot is a result of your parliament.

Right now May is threatening our NHS even more, something we literally cant live without, something thats being attacked constantly as if to pave the way for privatisation.

I can go on but I dont see the point. You have to surely understand by now.

Like I mentioned in one of my previous posts though; if England had instead voted Remain, Scotland would've had it's way but then Wales and Northern Ireland would've been ignored since they voted massively in favour of leaving. Like, I do appreciate having your side lose sucks, but you must understand that if the Scotts had got what they wanted the buck would have just moved onto the Welsh or Irish. The majority of our nations combined people arrived at the result, and we'll execute it, exactly the same way you guys did back in the original IndyRef. It was close, but they went with the majority. We're doing the same thing again now with the referendum on the EU. I don't see how we're playing by different rules at all.

And I agree, Scotland does obviously have it's own unique culture with things like Burns night, kilts, tradition. I don't think anyone debates that. But are you seriously trying to tell me there's such a huge cultural divide between say the people who live around here, and the people who live up on your side of the border? Because from my point of view; we speak the same language, we share the same landmass, we hold ideas like freedom of speech, equality, and hard work in common. Sure, your traditions might be different from ours and you've definitely got a stronger accent, but are we honestly that different? Are the priorities of your working class so massively different from our own? (Hint; they're really, really not.)

As for your other points? I totally get them; I have a huge dislike for Theresa May. But that's the thing, I get the feeling that a lot of the Scottish Nationalists these days are less against the idea of working with the English, but more just hate a Tory government. And as much as I do genuinely sympathise with Tory hatred? The Tories do not represent all of England, and they will not hold power forever. Independence however, is very much a permanent choice.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Some lessons are only learned the hard way .

[Deleted]

Of cource you do, everyone does exactly that. It doesn't change the fact that they are politicians desiring to be reelected so the proper career choice is to back their constituency especially after a referendum.

So accusations of MPs being undemocratic for voting differently than their constituents did in the referendum is, of course, ridiculous.

[Aeula]

Labour seems to have already fired some MP's who voted remain with quite a few more to go. Not sure if the conservatives have done anything similar.

Imo this is doubly good, we get to move forwards with Brexit and watch Corbyn's labour unravel.

[Reklia]

I guess the MP's are content to sit on their arses and rake in cash for doing little to nothing. Heaven forbid all this extra work from Brexit!

[Gimlix]

Bye bye EU.

How is this bye bye? The founders are still in there. UK just joined in. Now left again.

[Mehrunes]

I couldn´t find anything on that matter, even if it´s possible, where is the sense in that?

There are already non-EU states that are members of the Eurozone and even non-Eurozone states that are allowed to use Euro. Given that, I don't see a reason for a EU state leaving the union to be allowed to keep the Euro during the negotiations. And what sense is there in switching the currency back, creating pointless costs and potentially making Euro drop, which would hurt them even if they leave the Eurozone?

By 2020 all EU member states were going to be required to use the Euro. Britain would obviously never do that. It's why Farage was so certain that the leave party would eventually leave, he just didn't expect it this early.

Yeah, no. First of all, there is no strict time limit since that goes against the mechanics of preserving Eurozone's stability. A member state needs to meet certain economic criteria (steeper than those to join the EU itself) before they can start using Euro. Secondly, while there is a general obligation on the remaining member states to start using Euro once they meet these criteria, whenever that may happen, UK and Denmark have an exempt from Euro going all the way back to Maastricht Treaty. Just a healthy tip: if Farage is "certain" of something you know it's certified bullshit. Just like 350 million pounds for NHS.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Just a healthy tip: if Farage is certain of something you know it's certified bullshit

truer words were never spoken